Religion/Philosophy of Your Conculture(s)

[Toko]

The Himatsu Zeruse doesn't have a very large religious community. In fact, the general populace and in some ways its laws are very anti-religious.

Back during the Ikutsutu (Great War) there was a group later to be known as the ITH (Ima Taikijitse Himatsu, roughly National Collection of Scientists) that gained power in Zelse after the Revolution took down the Empire. By the end of the war they had influence over the entire government.

The ITH was, as the name suggests, strictly scientific, and held that organized religion and belief in "god"(s) were the enemies of progress and an enemy to their own power. After the war they persecuted religious groups in the nation, killing off the less persuadable religious leaders, ironically under the guise that religion caused violence and persecution.

When the coup took place that broke the ITH and re-wrote the Hunzai constitution to instate an actual democratic presidential system instead of a puppet one the ITH set up in the later years before they were flushed from government power, the law allowed religious freedom and religion took a larger place in the nation. Larger, but still miniscule.

The current Hunzai education system is still said to be somewhat aimed against religion. All Hunzai citizens must attend state schools (where religion is for all purposes banned) until they reach adulthood. There are no full "religious" schools or private schools because you absolutely MUST attend a state-run school. The Hunzai government has strict separation of religion and state, and is present in a large portion of the country's economy, so religion, while protected by constitutional rights, is still somewhat pushed to the back in the Himatsu Zeruse.

Though look hard enough and you'll find a diverse number of religions from around the world, mostly carried on by immigrants who come over to the island. Lately there's been an increase in potential immigrants, as the conflicts in the Pochtu region draw nearer to a war.

Despite lacking overall religion, the Hunzai people retain some non-scientific things from the old religions before/during the Great War. Most of these are just sort of commonplace things, like the fear of death (the old logograph Maiku for death is widespread symbol of "bad luck"; there are no graveyards in the Hunzai, all dead are cremated), the reverence of animals (the Kibuki, "national animal" of the Hunzai, can be seen depicted everywhere in countless uses throughout the country; wrongly killing an animal can have nearly equal consequences as wrongly killing a human;ukochan, cartoon "TV" (sort of) shows involving animals as characters, are most popular and make up most of the total media) and many other things. These are mostly completely un-scientific, but no longer have any connection to the Zelse "religion" they did before the War.

[Yačay256]

@toko: I take it that religion and philosophy are separated among the Himatsu Zeruse; since your conculture lacks religion, what is their philosophy?

[Micamo]

Sorry to bump this, but it's a good thread so I'll bump instead of starting a new one.

The Agyon do not really have what we would call a "religion" in terms of rituals and ceremonies. They do not have regular "church" goings. They do however have a vast amount of lore and legends. I suppose you could call this their religion. An overview:

The "grand creator" is Dhaiomir, literally, "The God Maker." Dhaiomir is a great big nothing: The grand, primordial nothing. The Agyon believe that Dhaio, "gods" can just spring up out of this nothing. Dhaio aren't really "Gods" exactly in the sense we use the term in English, but it's close enough. Dhaio are basically great beings of power.

The original two Dhaio were Mayatsunda and Gyorozi. They loved each other very much, but one day Mayatsunda left Gyorozi. This made her very sad. So she wouldn't have to be lonely she took her tears (Otsaramelyi, "The Tears of the Void") and created a world. In this world was only the Agyon and the vast mountain ranges they dwell in: Everything else came later.

The Agyon and Gyorozi existed together peacefully for quite a long time. But something new came from the Dhaiomir: Eamina ("The Shifting Stain"). He hated the Agyon and Gyorozi too. He killed Gyorozi, but the Agyon he couldn't touch. He took their most of their vast mountain ranges Gyorozi had made for them and turned them into his own domain.

Eamina was a cruel, sadistic Dhaio: He built things up only so he could have fun knocking them down. Never satisfied with his own designs, in his domain everything changed very rapidly: Where a rainforest was one day would the next be replaced with a frozen tundra.

Most of all he enjoyed watching things suffer. He created the humans (Vozon) and basically used them as toys. Allowing them to build up and then designing all sorts of horrible tragedies to befall them. One such contraption for doing so was called the Erzafal ("Dream Crusher"). The Erzafal was a temple hidden out in the wilderness. Those unlucky enough to find it would be greeted inside by their heart's greatest desires. Except whenever they tried to have or enjoy these things the Erzafal would stop them from doing so. A gourmet may find a vast feast of all their favorite foods, but every time they try to take a bite of something it turns into sand. Most who fell into the Erzafal's trap went insane.

Eamina's "death" came when a brave Agyon, Deomaya, tricked him and stole his heart. She flew away with it. This threw Eamina into a rage. But without his heart he was not whole; His power was greatly reduced. He searched and eventually he found his heart. Inside the Erzafal.

He created and sent all sorts of horrible, terrifying things to retrieve it. Things that could destroy the world with a beat of their eyelash. But the Erzafal was created with Eamina's full power. Anything he created in his current state could not conquer it. Finally he went inside himself to find the heart was an illusion all along. Suddenly a boulder sealed the door.

He unleashed his full wrath: But no matter how hard he struggled to free himself, the Erzafal countered with something even greater to hold him in. A God, trapped forever in a prison of his own design.

With this in mind we can consider a few things:

The Agyon consider themselves to be strictly superior to humans and indeed to all other living things. They are the artifacts of a paradise long gone: Everyone else is a perversion of that past ideal. As such they mostly keep to themselves, with interaction with the "lesser races" being minimal. Where interaction does exist at all, it is with the settlements that happen to be closest to where the Agyon live: The mountaintops of the cold northern regions.

As for their philosophy they are highly pacifistic. An Agyon will not resort to violence unless very heavily provoked. Or very well paid. Agyon mercenaries have been the key to many successful wars. Either way they will only fight defensively. If at all possible they prefer not to kill their opponents, and even when a kill is necessary they greatly mourn and regret the loss as they would an ally.

[Ossicone]

I quite like the idea of a god being imprisoned in his own trap. It has that nice element of fatal pride.

However, I can easily say that my conpeople and your conpeople would hate each other.

[Micamo]

I quite like the idea of a god being imprisoned in his own trap. It has that nice element of fatal pride.

However, I can easily say that my conpeople and your conpeople would hate each other.

Well the Inyauk hate everyone so that's really no surprise :p

[Ossicone]

Well yeah, that's definitely true. :)
(Except for the mountain people! But they're secret for now.)

[Micamo]

Though I don't think the Agyon would hate them. The Agyon don't really hate humans, but just regard them as something lesser that's in most cases not really worth their time. Think of it like beavers. It's cool that they build dams and stuff but how many people do you know who go around hanging out with beavers? The Agyon think of humans in the same way.

[Micamo]

After sealing Eamina, Deomaya ("Freed Spirit," by the way) took his heart (Minalen, "Heart of Imperfection") and tried to destroy it. She attempted in vain until the Minalen laughed at her, and spoke.

"Gyorozi created the world because she was incomplete. So the world created me, because it too was incomplete. I am the Will of the World. You have disposed of me, and now the world is incomplete once again. Do you not see what this means?

"Death, Suffering, Destruction! If I do not provide these things then something else will. This is the way things must be."

The Minalen's voice harsh on her ears, she wrapped it up and buried it as deeply as she could near the Erzafal. She covered both it and the grave of the Minalen with stones and eventually made a mountain to cover it.

The Agyon greatly reject the Minalen's words. To them, death and misery are not necessities but are great evils that can and should be fought. The Vozon do not share this view. They attempt to make peace with fate and accept that which happens to them. If one falls ill the Agyon say, this is a horrible thing, we should try to cure him. The Vozon say, he must deserve to die, otherwise he would not have gotten sick. This is the main reason for the general disrespect the Agyon have for the humans.

[Curlyjimsam]

I have a lot of religions in my world(s) ... The polytheistic Old Viksorian religion and its relatives, the monotheistic Damaism (the most important modern-day religion) are the ones I've elaborated to the greatest extent. There's also Triism (which considers the number three to be supreme, and bases all its practices around this), Ngamkian horse worship, the animistic Amu religion, the nationalistic Martian religions based around figures symbolically embodying the state ... It's an area I'm quite interested in, and one which I've done far too much work on to fit it all in a single post.

[Malloriel]

The reality of my world's creation, and the beliefs about it are vastly different things. It's generally accepted in most places that there are fourteen gods. Some believe they balance each other, some believe they oppose each other. The elements from these gods are the foundation for all things, from the physical world which is seen and experienced, to the mind and emotions of the peoples who inhabit it. The elements are:

Death; Life
Darkness; Light
Water; Fire
Earth; Air
Time; Memory
Wisdom; Inspiration
Love; Idolatry

The reality is that the first three essences to evolve from that primordial Nothing, that purity of everything that ever was, that ever would be, that ever could be, that never would be, were Primal Change, Primal Balance, and Primal Emotion. Later, they would be known as Death, Darkness, and Water. It is the interpretation of their later creations that this concept cannot be true. Many believe that it was Life, Light and Fire which gave birth to the world. This religious concept is known as Shaetheryn (the Brightness), and those who do great deeds in the name of Shaetheryn can become blessed by the Trinescence.

Sects are scattered across the world which choose one god above the others, or a small collection of them, but few acknowledge all fourteen at once, or as equals, or even as the vague hierarchy they are. There exist, however, temples dedicated to each god, one High Temple to represent their essence and ideals for each Element in turn.

Darkness and Death are widely regarded by the Humans as being intensely negative, and are highly shunned. Creatures born of Light tend to feel the same, while creatures of Life are rather friendly with all, and Fire is crotchety to most regardless of innate alignment.

All of the various cultures have, at their core, a belief in the gods to one degree or another. For some it is a necessity, for others it is an option. For the Humans, it is not unavoidable to become part of one religion or another, but in order for them to access magic (anymore), they must at the very least admit that the gods exist. Denial of their existence means that the essences that stem from them are impossible to discern. They can still be physically, mentally, and/or emotionally affected by the elements, they will just lack the ability to do anything about them or with them.

I guess that's the nut-shell version. =3

[Chelsara]

This is a religion created for a yet-to-be-created conpeople.

They believe in a common spirit – everyone and everything living is connected through a common spirit and everything is affected by the general well being of the world. The goal is to balance yourself to help make everything balanced. They do so through meditation – being quiet, reflecting on what is unbalanced in your life, thinking positively, etc. It's not “om” meditation, more of just being alone and calm and quiet to think about whatever.

There is a sect of the religion that believes in having many children in order to decrease the effect any one person has on the spirit They believe in polygamy, especially. Some parts of the sect believe in spirit transfer – when a person dies their share of the spirit is given to one of the most balanced people in (or out of) the cult. At one time this practice lead to the murder of people with mental problems and other random people to transfer their shares of the spirit to more balanced people - thousands of people were killed for this reason before the particular sect was outlawed

The world was created in the great paradox – the spirit created man, man created the spirit.

There is an ancient belief that anything with eyes shares the common spirit. This also lead to the "lost in translation" belief that the blind are not of the spirit. Due to the belief that anything with eyes shares the spirit, art may not have eyes on faces. The "lost in translation" belief that the blind don't share the spirit caused the exile of the blind because people thought they were not of their world.

[Curlyjimsam]

Due to the belief that anything with eyes shares the spirit, art may not have eyes on faces.

That's a really nice idea. I really like that.

[Ossicone]

Due to the belief that anything with eyes shares the spirit, art may not have eyes on faces.

That's a really nice idea. I really like that.

When I was little, I used to draw pictures of people without faces. They look kinda creepy, but that wasn't my intention. I just wasn't very good at drawing faces so I just skipped it.

It is an image that certainly sticks with you. Also, no Mona Lisa...

[Ainuke]

A few, simple rules.

- Little is true.
- All is permitted.
- Believing is seeing.

You may take some meaning from these.

[Bristel]

A few, simple rules.

- Little is true.
- All is permitted.
- Believing is seeing.

You may take some meaning from these.

That's a bit simple, isn't it?

Do you think that a conculture would allow everything to be permitted?

If there is little truth, then how is there any trust?

If they must see something to believe in it, then how do they handle second-hand information or news?

[SLiV]

A few, simple rules.

(...)
- Believing is seeing.

You may take some meaning from these.

(...)
If they must see something to believe in it, then how do they handle second-hand information or news?

I think you misread it for "seeing is believing", a phrase often used by (desperate) evangelists and UFO spotters (not to put those too on one line).

"Believing is seeing" is far more complex and undoubtedly far more 'philosophical' and 'enigmatic'.

[Bristel]

>enigmatic

(pardon the rude tone here:) You mean, too lazy to go and write out something philosophically meaty and perhaps beautiful in its own way, instead of parroting some extremely common and regurgitated tautological phrases?

"The first rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club..."

SLiV, you actually made me go look up philosophies for a few hours tonight... as if I could find some empty space in the philosophy universe to fill, but I wasn't creative enough to come up with something really new.

I guess I am just unsatisfied with simple declarations of philosophy.

Ainuke, can you please elaborate a bit on why they came to those philosophies, and how that fits in to their culture?

[Micamo]

Writing truly insightful things is really, really hard. But you can fake it by being somewhat internally consistent, defying commonly held ideas, and being abstract enough to be interpreted in any way you want.

Take an example from Hegel:

If we consider only what it contains, and not how it contains it, the true reason-world, so far from being the exclusive property of philosophy, is the right of every human being on whatever grade of culture or mental growth he may stand; which would justify man's ancient title of rational being. The general mode by which experience first makes us aware of the reasonable order of things is by accepted and unreasoned belief; and the character of the rational is to be unconditioned, self-contained, and thus to be self-determining. In this sense man above all things becomes aware of the reasonable order of things when he knows of God, and knows him to be the completely self-determined. Similarly, the consciousness a citizen has of his country and its laws is a perception of reason-world, so long as he looks up to them as unconditioned and likewise universal powers, to which he must subject his individual will. And in the same sense, the knowledge and will of the child is rational, when he knows his parents' will, and wills it.

The absolute Idea has turned out to be the identity of the theoretical and the practical Idea. Each of these by itself is still one-sided, possessing the Idea only as a sought for beyond and an unattained goal; each, therefore, is a synthesis of endeavor, and has, but equally has not, the Idea in it; each passes from one thought to the other without bringing the two together, and so remains fixed in their contradiction. The absolute Idea, as the rational Notion that in its reality meets only with itself, is by virtue of this immediacy of its objective identity, on the one hand the return to life; but it has no less sublated this form of its immediacy, and contains within itself the highest degree of opposition. The Notion is not merely soul but free subjective Notion that is for itself and therefore possesses personality---the practical, objective Notion determined in and for itself which, as person, is impenetrable atomic individuality, but explicitly universality and cognition, and in its other has its own objectivity for its object. All else is error, confusion, opinion, endeavor, caprice and transitoriness; the absolute Idea alone is being, imperishable life, self-knowing truth, and is all truth.

[jseamus]

Oh god why did it have to be Hegel. This is the most elaborate drivel I have ever read, with the exception of everything else I've read by Hegel. I based the philosophy of one of my fictional communities in part on Hegel.

I also based the philosophy of some conpeople on my early attempts at philosophy, like my ideas on space and time, the soul and being. For example:

"no matter how closely one examines an object, one cannot find any elementary division in it. There are no atoms or quanta to be found, only continuous matter. Space and matter are essentially indivisible and continuous, without division or element. So with time, which is not composed of moments which can be numbered, but of unnumbered movements and constant change. Time is a continuum of causal change, and so space is the object of that change.

Thus, time is inseparable from space, as without the object of change no change can occur, and vice versa. Space is the continuum of changing matter, and time is the continuum of the changes of matter.; each implies the other.

The body is changing matter, inseparable from all other matter, but the soul is unchanging and so cannot be matter. Yet how can the soul be united with the body if one is matter, changing, and the other is not? How are the senses of the soul able to apprehend anything of changing matter if the soul itself does not change? How is the afterlife to be experienced if the soul can not experience anything?

It must be that there are two bodies, one of base matter, one of noble matter. When the baser body dies, the nobler body awakens into the afterlife, opening its eyes as the new senses of the unchanging soul. The soul has no senses of its own, only sensing life and afterlife through the base and noble bodies."

Obviously I stole a lot from many sources, but I at least tried to integrate them.

[Micamo]

Oh god why did it have to be Hegel. This is the most elaborate drivel I have ever read, with the exception of everything else I've read by Hegel.

This is further proof of the Dialectic, as your frustration is the negation of... ah screw it.