Some Snippets from The World: Yeola-Camay

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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elemtilas wrote:
gestaltist wrote: This self-doubt is kind of ridiculous. I think I will have to man up and make a thread for the World of Two Suns....
Perhaps. But is it any worse than to come swaggering in full of oneself and the stories and the otherworld really are nòt good at all?
True enough. Especially in our culture of tweets and immediate gratification, a lot of people seem to think that something they spent five minutes on is „totally awesome, man“. I appreciate a place like the World all the more.
But yes, please do shed some light on the World of Two Suns!
I am in the process of finalizing the map. (I want to make sure that I have realistic climates and that all places I have been imagining find their proper homes.) Once I am done with it, I will start a thread and tell you a story or two.
Also, you really could have fooled me about your English! I haven't noticed a trace of an accent or a common misuse of the language that I would associate with an L2 user. If I may ask, what ìs your native language, if not English?
Thanks, that’s very kind of you to say. It is easier to fool people in writing, I guess. My pronunciation is a dead giveaway that English isn’t my first language, I am afraid. And to answer your question: my native language is Polish.

Also, thanks for explaining the Auntimoany government to me. The Imperial Court looks like a perfect place for a novel. And the prison of Amouraz is terrible indeed.

How big is Auntimoany, BTW. It seems to be the only state in the East (apart from Eastmarche) if I am getting this right. It must be pretty huge... How old is it as a state, and how stable?
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

Post by elemtilas »

[tick]
gestaltist wrote: Thanks, that’s very kind of you to say. It is easier to fool people in writing, I guess. My pronunciation is a dead giveaway that English isn’t my first language, I am afraid. And to answer your question: my native language is Polish.
Poland is surely one of the conlanging capitals of the world! That and Holland!
Also, thanks for explaining the Auntimoany government to me. The Imperial Court looks like a perfect place for a novel. And the prison of Amouraz is terrible indeed.

How big is Auntimoany, BTW. It seems to be the only state in the East (apart from Eastmarche) if I am getting this right. It must be pretty huge... How old is it as a state, and how stable?
It is pretty big, and occupies a key position near the opening of a great bay of the Ocean of Sunrise. It also exercises suzereinty over a lesser kingdom, that of Rumnias. Westmarche is probably the next most powerful state over all, though allied with Darenallie and Withwandie (two other Daine lands), they would be quite formidable indeed! To the south of Auntimoany is Mentolatum while to the northwest are Talaria, Husick, Heckla and a few smaller kingdoms beyond the Canasawack River. There is no other regional power until you go quite a way south and come across the empier of Syansyan. Over the Ocean the lands of Alaria are all in disarray; to the west, Ehrran and Sandhia are the big regional powers in southern Eosphora & Demeteia. Sandhia is mostly turned inward, while Ehrran is gearing up for a happy little war of eradication against the Remans of Misserea, who live beyond the Desolation of Palesteia. They might have to take a number, though: the Puniqi and the Ethiopians of the Uttermost West are fixing to do the same and the Daine of the region would probably not mind if Men just eradicated each other entirely.

Auntimoany itself is not an "old" state -- its modern history certainly only goes back to the Alarian Invasion (1672-1697); after this is the time of the Renewed Empire. Before that was a period of time where Auntimoany vacillated between independence as a kingdom and subjugation as a vassal of a more powerful empire. The Thiets -- Germanic language speakers -- only arrived in the Eastlands in the third century of the present age; before them, Onutumun was a realm of Teyor in which a large number of Daine also lived. The Teyor went away, but the Daine stayed on and simply blended into the foreground, largely unnoticed and largely unknown. They just go on doing whatever is they've been doing since forever...

It has proven to be quite stable, and this is probably because of the Daine, more than anything else. It is not generally known, but in the background, it is really certain Daine who are wielding great power and influence in the land. They are a very curious lot: historically they have not really been subject to the laws of Men, but neither have they been accorded any rights or privileges that Men enjoy -- they couldn't vote, they couldn't stand for election, they couldn't amass non-bullion wealth. (It's really only been in the last decade or so that they could vote or run for office, and so far, only one Daine has sought a seat in Parliament (she won her bid, by the way)). Yet they have managed to weave a web of political and economic influence around the Empire that might just leave a curious onlooker to wonder who's actually running the place. For example, even the Chancellor of the Exchequer does not know this, but it is known among certain Daine that over the last seven hundred years or so, it is the Trading Houses owned and operated by Daine who have amassed considerable real estate and long term bond wealth -- the Daine basically own the Empire, or a pretty good chunk of it. If the government ever found out, they'd surely be astounded by their predicament!
Last edited by elemtilas on 01 Nov 2015 03:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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elemtilas wrote: Poland is surely one of the conlanging capitals of the world! That and Holland!
Maybe you should add the country 'Oland to the World and make it the capital of linguistic studies? ;)

It is pretty big, and occupies a key position near the opening of a great bay of the Ocean of Sunrise. It also exercises suzereinty over a lesser kingdom, that of Rumnias. Westmarche is probably the next most powerful state over all, though allied with Darenallie and Withwandie (two other Daine lands), they would be quite formidable indeed! To the south of Auntimoany is Mentolatum while to the northwest are Talaria, Husick, Heckla and a few smaller kingdoms beyond the Canasawack River. There is no other regional power until you go quite a way south and come across the empier of Syansyan. Over the Ocean the lands of Alaria are all in disarray; to the west, Ehrran and Sandhia are the big regional powers in southern Eosphora & Demeteia. Sandhia is mostly turned inward, while Ehrran is gearing up for a happy little war of eradication against the Remans of Misserea, who live beyond the Desolation of Palesteia. They might have to take a number, though: the Puniqi and the Ethiopians of the Uttermost West are fixing to do the same and the Daine of the region would probably not mind if Men just eradicated each other entirely.

Auntimoany itself is not an "old" state -- its modern history certainly only goes back to the Alarian Invasion (1672-1697); after this is the time of the Renewed Empire. Before that was a period of time where Auntimoany vacillated between independence as a kingdom and subjugation as a vassal of a more powerful empire. The Thiets -- Germanic language speakers -- only arrived in the Eastlands in the third century of the present age; before them, Onutumun was a realm of Teyor in which a large number of Daine also lived. The Teyor went away, but the Daine stayed on and simply blended into the foreground, largely unnoticed and largely unknown. They just go on doing whatever is they've been doing since forever...

It has proven to be quite stable, and this is probably because of the Daine, more than anything else. It is not generally known, but in the background, it is really certain Daine who are wielding great power and influence in the land. They are a very curious lot: historically they have not really been subject to the laws of Men, but neither have they been accorded any rights or privileges that Men enjoy -- they couldn't vote, they couldn't stand for election, they couldn't amass non-bullion wealth. (It's really only been in the last decade or so that they could vote or run for office, and so far, only one Daine has sought a seat in Parliament (she won her bid, by the way)). Yet they have managed to weave a web of political and economic influence around the Empire that might just leave a curious onlooker to wonder who's actually running the place. For example, even the Chancellor of the Exchequer does not know this, but it is known among certain Daine that over the last seven hundred years or so, it is the Trading Houses owned and operated by Daine who have amassed considerable real estate and long term bond wealth -- the Daine basically own the Empire, or a pretty good chunk of it. If the government ever found out, they'd surely be astounded by their predicament!

Thanks. The fact that you concentrate on Auntimoany so heavily made me have this skewed image where Auntimoany was basically China-important and China-big. I can see the picture is a lot more varied, though.

Also, interesting interplay between Men and Daine...

Last question: who are Teyor, exactly? I have always only seen cryptic allusions to them.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

Post by elemtilas »

[tick]
gestaltist wrote:
elemtilas wrote: Poland is surely one of the conlanging capitals of the world! That and Holland!
Maybe you should add the country 'Oland to the World and make it the capital of linguistic studies? ;)
Hmmm...

Thanks. The fact that you concentrate on Auntimoany so heavily made me have this skewed image where Auntimoany was basically China-important and China-big. I can see the picture is a lot more varied, though.

Also, interesting interplay between Men and Daine...
We'll see what comes of it. Naturally, if you ask the Great Queen of Westmarche, probably the imperial government of Auntimoany will not figure too prominently in her foreign policy considerations -- it's the Hidden Queen she has connections with. Auntimoany is one of the few countries of Men that has a very large Daine population, and the interplay is interesting to say the least. For example, they almost live their lives as if this whole empire of Men around them were simply not even there. They don't generally get involved in ordinary politics; they don't generally stick their fingers in the business of Men and while they're quite happy to live among Men, they're also quite happy to ignore them completely.

Last question: who are Teyor, exactly? I have always only seen cryptic allusions to them.
Ah, the elder race...

That's a question I really don't have an adequate answer for... I know very little about them: Oldest and wisest of all folk now living in Gea, they tend towards reclusivity & secrecy; their lives in Gea and their destinies beyond are not at all like those of other folks. In the East, which is known to be the urheimat of Teyor kind, though their place of awakening is now well under the waters of the sea, they inhabit Hidden Realms -- places very difficult to find unless you've got the Key. They love music and dance and story; they favor a kind of harp and low pitched flutes; their dance tunes are nimble and fleeting, and sad as any lament you'd care to hear. Likewise in speech and story, there is ever a hint of things lost and the World that never was. In the East they are the highest and most dwimcrafty of all folk; wisest in the lore of the world and most steeped in its history and its destiny. In the West are a lesser kindred, still wise beyond the measure of Daine or Men; less prone to melancholy, perhaps, and more likely to follow the wild hunt. They are less secretive, but still not easy to find. The Daine have the greater experience of life with them, for in their youth, they first met and adored the elder race, and they would flock to them like eager students to their guru. In those days, the Teyor were happy to teach and the Daine were certainly happy to learn!

The Teyor should not be confused with an even more ancient race now only very dimly recollected as the "Old Ones". Even in the sawyery of the Teyor, these folk are shadowy and unknown. Even their names and their works are no longer recalled even by those who have drunk the deepest draughts of sawcraft. Men in these younger days ascribe to their hands all the most ancient of monuments. But they were here and then passed away long before the pyramids sprouted from the rich green vales of Pyaro or the mighty Watchtowers of the Atelanteans were built in the four corners of their empire. If any of their works survives, I'd say it must almost certainly be the very foundation stones of the city of Ibizon, along the shores of the Midworld Sea, and possibly the tumbled stones of the Ox Ford itself. It might possibly be they who built the Seven Watchtowers that line the shores of the Wastes of Weem, along the Ocean of Congealed Waters. Or, perhaps it wasn't! Those Towers are very old indeed! The Great Road I know predates the Old Ones by a good stretch of time.

The only folk of Gea who are any older, I'm sure, are the Mountains of the World. And there's only the three of them left, and anymore they don't get about much.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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Prinsessa wrote:
Micamo wrote:One secret - I'm not going to say the secret, for there are many ways up the mountain - that I've found to be useful is the following: Make a place where you do not belong.
I might as well just copy Earth then.
Not to derail elem's thread further but I think this should be addressed: By this I mean, imagine a society which has things that don't exist in our world, and lacks things that we take for granted. Then, imagine the consequences of these changes thoroughly. How does this society deal with the problems the missing elements were meant to solve? What new problems do the additions cause? How does this society deal with those?

Sometimes we can gain inspiration from history: How do people go to the bathroom if there's no toilet paper? Most real cultures that have ever existed made due without toilet paper and you can borrow one of their solutions. But sometimes no such inspiration will be possible, and you'll have to be original. What about a species that doesn't mate to reproduce, and instead their young grow in pods that grow on trees?

Remember that both of these are important: A removal of a fundamental is vastly more interesting than the addition of something superfluous. And make enough of these changes, and eventually you'll end up with something very alien indeed.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

Post by elemtilas »

[tick]
Micamo wrote:
Prinsessa wrote:
Micamo wrote:One secret - I'm not going to say the secret, for there are many ways up the mountain - that I've found to be useful is the following: Make a place where you do not belong.
I might as well just copy Earth then.
Not to derail elem's thread further but I think this should be addressed: By this I mean, imagine a society which has things that don't exist in our world, and lacks things that we take for granted. Then, imagine the consequences of these changes thoroughly. How does this society deal with the problems the missing elements were meant to solve? What new problems do the additions cause? How does this society deal with those?

Sometimes we can gain inspiration from history: How do people go to the bathroom if there's no toilet paper? Most real cultures that have ever existed made due without toilet paper and you can borrow one of their solutions. But sometimes no such inspiration will be possible, and you'll have to be original. What about a species that doesn't mate to reproduce, and instead their young grow in pods that grow on trees?

Remember that both of these are important: A removal of a fundamental is vastly more interesting than the addition of something superfluous. And make enough of these changes, and eventually you'll end up with something very alien indeed.
I don't consider it derailed at all! It is I think an important consideration and probably deserves being in its own thread. It is in thinking about these kinds of things, even as trivial as toilet facilities and electric lights, that we bring the quality of our work above mere copy-and-paste. If your world is low-tech, how do you solve the problems that electricity solves? At what cost does an alternative solution come about?

I think it was perhaps easy enough to misread you -- I certainly did! I was thinking more along the lines of the personal, internal belonging. How do / would I fit in or not fit in? Maybe Princessa read you more that way as well.

Both readings are of interest to us, though: sure we have to deal with lack of toilets and electricity, we also need to think about belonging in a social or interpersonal way. A society that doesn't educate its boys or an educational system steeped in some kind of non-scientific methodology. Political or economic systems very different from our own. Family structures or social mores that differ from ours.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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[tick]

A random bit of ancient lore...

Very little is known of the Shadowfolk, except that everyone and everything in our world has its unique Shadowtwin. They are said to be shy, dark and featureless; airy and insubstantial. Yet they are steadfast, always tagging along with us wherever we go and they never leave us alone in the light. Yet they shun that very light, be it of Sawel or Selanna or even the lesser lights of a common candle or lamp. Shadowfolk fear light, cowering at noon, quivering in terror of its iluminating might. Yet even in their terror, they are bound to their charges as if compelled by ancient and unbreakable geas to be at our sides so long as we walk in the light.

Shadowfolk are slaves of light; they are freed only by darkness. They only leave us at night or when we enter some dark place. It is then that the Shadowfolk are freed from their slavery and are at liberty to dance and frolic in the dark woods or desolate places. No one has ever conversed with a Shadow, nor has anyone ever heard them sing or speak. Their freedom is short however, for whenever we enter the light again, they instantly spring to our side. There, they take up their station, as if to ward away the power of Light, yet they only cower away from the very light they are so powerfully drawn to.

It is said they are seeking some faraway home, undoubtedly one where there is no light, where the shadows may dance free and unencumbered. But this place they may never find nor go to so long as we live in a world of light!

De Chorographeiad
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

Post by eldin raigmore »

elemtilas wrote:UT-SI-LA — UT-RE-MI — UT-SI-LA — UT-RE-MI.
Our "Three Blind Mice" tune starts:
Do-Ti-La, Do-Ti-La,
Mi-Re-Do, Mi-Re-Do.

Or
Ut-Si-La, Ut-Si-La,
Mi-Re-Ut, Mi-Re-Ut.

To have the second element be Ut-Re-Mi would be very weird -- *here*.


[hr][/hr]


AIUI the reason elemtilas "concentrates" on Auntimoany is the reason so many of "our" stories concentrate on the British Isles or the Netherlands or Japan.
Yes, Britain is small compared to Germany or France or Spain; Yes, Japan is small compared to China; but if it's where "our heroes" live and were born and raised, it's going to be important to the stories, (perhaps second to where the stories are actually set, if they're set elsewhere).

Also note; probably (elemtilas can confirm or deny) "Auntimoany Rules the Waves" in The World for the same reasons and in the same manner that Britain and Japan "rule the waves" from the PoV of Europe and (northern) East Asia, respectively.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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[tick]
eldin raigmore wrote:
elemtilas wrote:UT-SI-LA — UT-RE-MI — UT-SI-LA — UT-RE-MI.
Our "Three Blind Mice" tune starts:
Do-Ti-La, Do-Ti-La,
Mi-Re-Do, Mi-Re-Do.

Or
Ut-Si-La, Ut-Si-La,
Mi-Re-Ut, Mi-Re-Ut.

To have the second element be Ut-Re-Mi would be very weird -- *here*.
Quite so.

Though quite ordinary *there*. I think this C-B-A / C-D-Eb represents what could well be the ur-tune that the rather later round was built upon. One later variant continues with Eb|A-A-G-G-A-A-Eb---:|, of course with C--B--A-- & C--D--Eb underneath.

*Here*, we find what is possibly an echo of the more ancient tune shape: E|A-A-G#-G#-A.A-A-E-E:| with C--B--A & A--D--E underneath. Different scale, of course, but the shape is very similar -- and that's not at all unexpected wherever folklore has evolved!

AIUI the reason elemtilas "concentrates" on Auntimoany is the reason so many of "our" stories concentrate on the British Isles or the Netherlands or Japan.
Right! Top Nation, eh, what?
Yes, Britain is small compared to Germany or France or Spain; Yes, Japan is small compared to China; but if it's where "our heroes" live and were born and raised, it's going to be important to the stories, (perhaps second to where the stories are actually set, if they're set elsewhere).
Yep! A lot of stories have deep roots running, suckerwise, from Auntimoany. It's the Great Goulash Pot of the eastern world -- where else can you find a country founded on piracy turn into a mercantile empire that attracts all the best foreign talent in the fields of philosophy, dwimcraft and wiscraft. Certainly Westmarche gives it a run for its money -- their own artificers devised the engines that allow the Avantimen to run their caravan trains, after all; plus they rule the skies with their airships and dominate with their strength of arms. But Auntimoany has money and cleverness to spare; plus they have a kind of associative diversity that monolithic realms like Westmarche and Darennallie can not match.
Also note; probably (elemtilas can confirm or deny) "Auntimoany Rules the Waves" in The World for the same reasons and in the same manner that Britain and Japan "rule the waves" from the PoV of Europe and (northern) East Asia, respectively.
It is interesting to note -- or rather, would be interesting to note, if the Men of Auntimoany were at all aware -- exactly how unsettled their position is. On the surface of things, the Empire is indeed Top Nation when it comes to naval and merchant prowess. But I suspect that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer were to conduct a good investigation into the matter, they'd be shocked to discover who actually rules the empire itself! He might be embarrassed to learn it isn't actually him and his cronies in the Magistracy! I have strong suspicion that as much as 70% of the treasury notes (and thus, 70% of the Treasury!) , and little doubt that 40% of the Trading Houses outright and a nother 30% more clandestinely, a good half of the drydock & ship building facilities plus rents on probably three quarters of the warehouses and port facilities in the empire as a whole are traceable back either directly or indirectly via certain holding companies, to a handful of Trading Houses owned and operated by Daine.

The question thus boils down to which Auntimoany actually rules the waves; and it is probably the one most people don't expect, and probably couldn't conceive of running such a complex affair anyway!
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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First time I've seen mention of Darennallie. What is that place?
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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[tick]
gestaltist wrote:First time I've seen mention of Darennallie. What is that place?
It is one of the countries of Narutanea, the Eastlands, beyond which are the countries of the western marches and the wilds of Siviria beyond. I'll give you a quick geography primer.

The great axis of orientation in Eosphora (the great landrealm, or continent, in which we find the lands of Narutanea situated at the eastern extreme) is the Great Road. It is a very ancient, though probably not inherently magical, highway of very drab grey stone; well graded and cambered and certainly wide enough for two broad oliphant drawn pantechnicons to go side by side rather comfortably. And if you've ever seen an oliphant drawn pantechnicon, you will instantly realise this is a broad highway indeed!

We'll orient ourselves in one of the chief cities of Auntimoany, Pylycundas, for it is here the Great Road has its eastern terminus -- a great stone jetty that juts out into the waters of the great bay to the east beyond which are the waters of the Ocean of Sunrise. Standing upon the Golden Mile, at the intersection of Long Street, for that is the name of the Great Road within the confines of the city, and King Street, which comes down from the north, to our left, and passes to the south, on our right. Looking downhill towards the sea, we can clearly see the end of the road; if we look to the north, King Street will eventually take us out of Auntimoany altogether and into the lands of the Rumeliards; if we look to the south, King Street will become the Kings Highway and take us down into the rest of Auntimoany proper. But we will turn around and face the West:

With the Ocean of Sunrise behind us, all Narutanea is laid out in front of us. To the right is the land of Iconia, a thin Rumelian country that rests between the waters of the bay and the highlands of the Whythywindle Hills to the west. Further north, beyond Iconia is the Teyorish land of Pylar the Hidden and beyond the marches of Pylar lie the ancient Forests of Shalamar -- and that place is just boggy with magic, I can tell you! Shalamar sits at the northern point of the bay and encompasses the northern stretches of the Whythywindles. Across the waters of the bay is the Pelagian Peninsula in which is another Rumelian country called Rumnias. Rumnias is actually a kingdom within the Empire of Auntimoany, but that's really for their own good. There are several wee Rumelian countries to the north away and beyond their marches lies the Desolation of Ania.

Now, Ania was, during the times of the last Age, a mighty Empire, one of the so called archaic empires of Men, and they got into fighting with the other great empires of the region: Oriata (which we'll come to presently) and Hoopelle (which we'll come to eventually). They hacked away at each other for a good long while, which killed most everyone off, then they got all plaguey, which did everyone else in. And thát was for their own good. Archaic empires now safely out of the way, this opened much of Narutanea up for the recent immigrants who had come out of the distant lands of the Uttermost West -- the Thiets (Germanic speakers), the Galts (Celtic speakers), the Rumen (Rumic speakers) and the Gypts (Missereans, supposedly of the Atalantean sort) -- who will eventually make up the countries we're now passing over.

To our left, still standing at the Golden Mile, is the vast stretch of Auntimoany itself. Pylycundas is the northernmost of its principle cities. There are also Pottenne (a city almost entirely of Daine), Pycleas (the capital of the Empire, and also known as the City of Auntimoany), and away to the south, Dyllsburg. South beyond the border lies the archonate of Mentolatum; even beyond Mentolatum lies the land of the Nibukians. Beyond their marches is the mighty river Wikang and the lands of Irinsurea -- hot jungles teeming with ancient magic and infested with less than civilised Wildings, though there are truly civilised realms in the Southlands. The Daine of the Empire of Syansyan are quite civilised indeed!

Walking to the westwards out of Pylycundas, along the Great Road, we will first come to the Gap of Angera. To the north are the Whythywindle Hills, a broad range of green forested hills, home to several kindreds of wild Men -- the Dhargs principally -- but mostly it is the lands of the Commonwealth of Withwandiê. Comprising several queendoms of Daine folk, their lands stretch all along the hill country from the Gap of Angera up to Shalamar's very verges of verdantry. Although Shalamar is inhabited by Daine and Teyor thedes, they are not part of Withwandiê. To the south lie the foothills of the Arnal Mountains of western Auntimoany. Craggy and sharp, there are no roads through the Arnals; the deeper lands are the home of Dwarrows, wild men of various sorts and dragons of course, in all their venom spitting glory. Angera, the land through which the Road travels, was once an independent archonate and very much renown. For who hasn't hear of jolly old King Coal and his fiddlers three? Twas this same happy fellow, his Angeran name was Croewel, that devised the now famous Law Code which provided sure and swift justice for men. Women and Daine of all sorts need not apply. Passing through the city of Narfoun of Angera, we will now head downhill into the lowlands of the Westmarche.

The Queendom of Westmarche is a realm of Daine; its deeper name is Harathalliê. The Daine here speak a very strange kind of Thietish language, though mixed with many Teyorish and ancient Daine words. The Road through Westmarche runs through the northern ridings of the land -- the Eastriding and the Westriding -- and parallels the course of the caravan way. A little way to the north runs the Severn River, tumbling down out of the Whythywindles. Beyond the river are the kingdoms of Ylluria, Teleran, Husick and Hecla. Husick and Heckla are successor states of that archaic empire called Oriata though anymore the people speak mostly a language akin to the Avantimannish. Beyond them towards the unspeakable north lie only waste lands: the Desolation of Ania, the Wastes of Weem and the Wilds of Siviria. To the south of Westmarche lie the Wild Marches which are the homelands of several thedes of Wilding and some Galts though were once well tilled lands called Narnen. The Daine of Westmarche love their gardens, orchards and farms and the whole beautiful country is just as green as can be. But bugger all if they haven't caught the fancy for speed and flight! Most Daine, anywhere in the World, like nothing more than to keep their bare feet planted squarely upon the loving soil of Gea; but it's the Daine of Westmarche that have put the homunculus motivator to use in a kind of wooden hobby horse on wheels, and don't the boys careen up and down the country lanes upon their automotivated horses just as fast as ever they can go! They've also invented no fewer than four different kinds of airships. There's one kind that swims in the upper airs suspended from a kind of great bladder; and another with two decks and eighteen wings, like a great ship of the air. They also fly smaller airships that look like birds in flight, the feathers of their broad wings outstretched and their graceful tails fanning out behind.

At last, the Road brings us to the ruins of Old Hoopelle, the once mighty City that stood for ten thousand years at the heart of the ancient empire. Empty now and devoid of all people, it stands as a reminder to the Daine of their formerly low state and as a reminder to Men of the ire of Daine when aroused! But it not a place entirely avoided: for the great hou an niman, the Hall of Women, is in the old city, as is the ancient marrying rock and seven sacred springs are still buried deep under the city. Through the city runs the Canasawack River, coming down from the north country; she runs to the southwards for some time, to the Sea of Khaz, flowing through Honh Beyna and the entirely illnamed Empire of Orr in the regions of which, turning to the eastwards, she runs down to the waters of the Ocean of Sunrise in Auntimoany.

Crossing the graceful grey stone arches of the bridge, we begin an upward toil, for we have now reached the Holy Hills, a line of very old mountains, now pretty well worn down, that run up from the southwest, pause momentarily at the watergap through which runs the Canasawack, and then take up their northward run again, but known as the Crags of Caldul. Our road takes us up in to the foothills, though, and away from the river. Here by either side of the Road we see four statues: two Daine women on either side -- well, probably women, anyway -- two facing east and two facing west, their hands raised in sororial and convivial greeting. This is the border between Harathalliê and Darennalliê. More properly known as Dar Irennalliê, this is a land of the bonniest woods you'll ever set your two bare feet upon! Daine here are great wood crafters and stout warriors. They managed to keep their independence, at least in part, where others failed and became the slaves of Men. To the north of Darennalliê are the neo-Nibukian realms of Harunn and Arcordia; the lands of the Woodsmen beyond them. To the west of Darennalliê are the western Marches of Narutanea and the Daine lands of Car Maramno, Marunnalliê, Car Chandron and Minduon, all along the Great Road and on and beyond the gentle western slopes of the Holy Hills.

Beyond the Marches, of course, the Road goes ever on. But beyond Minduon, we would pass into the Uplands of Siviria and the Great Northern Forest. If you trek perhaps a day's march north of the Road, you will come to lands utterly uninhabited by Daine of any kind. These forests have never known the tread of feet, bare or booted, and have only heard dark stories told by their southern and western kin. A brooding land in Siviria and its trees are dark and unwelcoming. Things wander the deeper woods that it were better not to meet. To the south, the woodlands are friendlier and less brooding. Eventually one may come to the lands of the Yttuun and the Turgun. Well beyond the southern verges of the Northern Forest are the Wastes of Alanea -- steppelands mostly, though there are ruins that speak of ancient kingdoms and happier times. There also are the lands of the Warlords, violent and dark places; places Daine will not go except to bring cheerful war to them who know no other way, for the Warlords have no other industry than reaving and plundering and destroying. Surely if it were not for the mighty warriors of Harathalliê and Darennalliê, especially, they would spread their own brand of darkness far and wide!

Beyond the lands of Siviria, the Road eventually comes into the ruins of a very ancient land indeed, and none other than the lands of the Four Queens of the World, where once was a beautiful city of emeralds and rubies and brilliant white stone by the warths of a blue sea. Now, there are only tumbled ruins and the choked and brackish waters of the Mere are more swamp than sea. Here is the hall of the Great Orrery, a curious Device that is both model and blueprint of the worlds that circle a star called Sawel. A place of many dimensions beyond the few we are generally familiar with; it is a place both Here and Elsewhere. It is from this place that one may travel to other places by means of the Gates and one may see any place and any time by the proper manipulation of the Orrery. No living spirit being has found the secrets of the Orrery, not since well before the time the Four Queens ruled the World, for the Orrery is very ancient indeed. It is probably not a coincidence that the Great Road runs right by this ancient wonderwork!

We shall travel along the Great Road for only a short distance now. Beyond this place of tumbled ruins, in the land called Alna, we will leave the bug ridden miasma that is the Mere behind and begin a steep rise. For if we look up into the west, we see before us the mightiest mountains in Gea, the Spine of the World. And our road takes us right up into the foothills, and then into the footmountains beyond. And just when we thought a mountain couldn't rise any higher, we see beyond the highest peaks of all. Perilous indeed the journey through the high Pass of Damronand, for the Spine is a land of fell creatures and bloodthirsty peoples. Hotai are the worst of them, and their lust for destruction makes the Warlords of Alanea look more like a picnic of happy families! Here we'll pause for a moment, taking in the great sweep of the green and black forests of Siviria behind us, the steppes of the south. Ahead lies the Uttermost West, the lands of Hespera and Atelante; the lands of Demeteia around the Midworld Sea and beyond them all, Afareia and the Uttermost South, the homeland of Men. In Hespera is the homeland of Daine kind, though the land is now sunken under the Sea of Tormented Waters. Beyond all lands is the Ocean of Sunset, and if we walked far enough, we would eventually come to another land of green fields and orchards and lovingly watched flocks; a Daine land called Morvallia. And there is a city called Crindio, and it is there in that city where the broad grey stones of the Great Road at last jut out into the dark glas waters of the Ocean of Sunset, a long stone jetty that points into the west.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

Post by gestaltist »

Thanks for the geography primer. I was traveling the last few days but had it downloaded on my iPad to read.

Is Gea smaller than our Earth or does it generally have bigger states? Or do you perhaps only paint it in broad strokes?
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

Post by elemtilas »

[tick]
gestaltist wrote:Thanks for the geography primer. I was traveling the last few days but had it downloaded on my iPad to read.

Is Gea smaller than our Earth or does it generally have bigger states? Or do you perhaps only paint it in broad strokes?
Hope it was useful! I know only that a fellow called Eratosthanes of Miserea measured Gea's girth at 11,617 leuyves -- but I'm not sure how big that is in km. And anyway, that wouldn't really answer the question. I think one great difference between Earth and Gea is that the latter has a much smaller populated area on the whole, and dense population centers are surrounded by and interspersed with sparsely populated fringes and depopulated areas are plentiful.

I think the countries of Men are generally pretty small in size. Surely the empire of Miserea during the height of its power and splendor was the largest by area in the whole world -- after all, it stretched from the Pillars of Herklen at the western end of the Midworld Sea to the Pillars of Iaso in the east and even beyond into the lands about the Pontic Sea, and even down beyond the Pillars of Narmer in the south. They were checked in their advances only by the remaining strength of the Puniqi and of course the Daine that ever hovered north and south of their domains, and of course the Ehranneans to the east.

Anymore we may as well call Miserea, "Miserabilea": the empire in 2015 consists mostly of semi-autonomous provinces, associate kingdoms and independent commonwealth realms. They all claim Pharaoh as their empress, but they have no internal cohesion that we could really call a state. That will leave Ehrran as probably the largest state in land area in the whole world.

I of course also did not list every single polity I could have -- many were skipped over to give you a general view. When I'm finishes with De Chorographeiad, perhaps you will condescend to read that and get a better idea of what the Wise in the East know of their world!
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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Miserea+Pharaoh... Have you taken inspiration from the Hebrew Mitzrayim or is it a coincidence?

What are the Pillars BTW?
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

Post by eldin raigmore »

gestaltist wrote:Miserea+Pharaoh... Have you taken inspiration from the Hebrew Mitzrayim or is it a coincidence?
What are the Pillars BTW?
Given all the other near-misses it's unlikely most of them are coincidences. Pretty sure elemtilas intends most of them. But he can say.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

Post by elemtilas »

[tick]
gestaltist wrote:Miserea+Pharaoh... Have you taken inspiration from the Hebrew Mitzrayim or is it a coincidence?
eldin raigmore wrote:Given all the other near-misses it's unlikely most of them are coincidences. Pretty sure elemtilas intends most of them. But he can say.
Thank you for your confidence! It is, ultimately I think, a Remanisation of an ancient name, Misr, which I think *here* applied to Memphis and by the Greeks was conflated to mean the whole country. Now, the natives call their own country Kemeteia, which obviously derives from ancient kmt, Kimet. Miserea as the name of the empire did not come about until the capital city wandered ever eastwards from Reme itself to Ibisant / Custanteia and finally to Alexandria, where it continues to be, since the loss of the other cities during the recent War.

Reman emperors have been styled pharaoh since the time of mage-emperor Agustas. In those days, he wanted to add Kemeteia to his own empire -- very wealthy, you see, stable government, lots of nice farmland -- but a failed battle at some little place (Aktion) spelled disaster for the whole enterprise. Other circumstances intervened and the whole sordid affair was eventually concluded by a marriage and a union of the crowns: the son of Agustas and the grand daughter of Pharaoh Cleopatra.
gestaltist wrote:What are the Pillars BTW?
Think Argonath plus Pharos plus Gibraltar. They are, or rather were, monumental architecture of the ancient Atelanteans. When they spread in to the regions around the Midworld Sea, they conquered what they wished and in order to mark that territory, they built four great fortresses as boundary markers. I don't think the original names are recorded anywhere -- obviously the names of the three known Pillars are later in time. The Pillar of Herklen is probably the most famous, as it marks the passage from the Ocean of Sunset to the Midworld Sea. This Pillar was built upon the ruins of a much more ancient watchtower, built by Daine in very ancient times indeed.

In recent years, the strait at the Pillars of Herklen were filled in by lava from the Great Volcano, so no sea trade can get in or out via the western gate. This disaster, which led to a gradual decrease in the sea level, leaving the great ports high and dry, was recently fixed by the expedient of applying thaumic sonic generators down into the earth. The intention was to make a small split in the land west of Sinai. Thus the Pillars of Narmer were to become the new Pillars of Herklen, as all sea traffic would now come through the southern gate. Of course, as with all things magical, they rarely turn out as intended, and political, human and natural disaster of the worst kind has literally laid waste to everything in the Levant.

Atelante is no more, and now its last colony has all but committed suicide. A very ancient link to the early history of Men is passing.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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The constant allusions to our world in the World are awesome. They give an instant sense of familiarity - and lead to surprises when you find out that the similarities are very superficial.

This is what keeps me from making a complete conbiology for my conworld - it would make the world so distant I could no longer relate to it.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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gestaltist wrote:This is what keeps me from making a complete conbiology for my conworld - it would make the world so distant I could no longer relate to it.
Here's how I deal with this problem: Biology on my conworld doesn't repeat Earth's. However, it does rhyme quite a bit. Evolution likes to invent the same basic blueprints for the same problems, over and over again. This is what biologists like to call "convergent evolution" but I don't like to use that term because it's abused by SF writers too much to justify nonsense like "Let's make an alien planet with independently evolved species that are exactly like Earth species, cell for cell."

So in practice, the creatures of my world for the most part evolved to be similar enough to earth animals that we can relate to them at least in broad terms. The Weng, despite its hexaped weirdness, is an armadillo-cow. The Neng Nia is a sand-gator. The Xtazuk is a whale-shark.
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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What you say makes sense, Micamo.

I will have to give it a good think: I do have humans which are almost identical with us and I don’t have any spaceships to account for it.

I think the main problem with doing a completely original conbiology isn’t the big animals that are important to the story. It is the ecosystem as a whole which would look completely different. I think it is easier to do in rather desolate areas of the world (and both Tazar and the Everwhite would count as such.) I have large swathes of savanna and moderate climates in WoTS which teem with life. And I don’t quite feel like inventing several hundred species (which would be the minimum required to cover animals important for humans.) But then again, it’s not like I am in a hurry.

You certainly gave me food for thought.

(And apologies to elemtilas for derailing his thread.)
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Re: Some Snippets from The World

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[tick]

Last night was dreary! I could hear the rain pelting against the slats of our wain's wooden shutters. Last night I was glad we don't have windows of real glass because then I'd just be startled by all the lightning. I was also glad for the pelting rain for another reason...it masked the shame of my quiet tears. None must know I passed the last night of my girlhood sobbing.

When I awoke, the thunder giants had passed; but the strengthening Sun did little to cheer me. You see, today is lazuz riyets, the Riding Forth...

I am Ryssere, a noble of the Easthold, and it is my fifteenth birthday. My clan have all gathered at Ypparatun for the Clan Games and the first riding of the young noble women. Most of the girls are nearly a year older than me and have been able to practice. I had no teachers apart from my brothers, and it is not permitted for boys to ride horses in a womanly fashion.

This terrifies me! Not only have I had to teach myself how to ride the way a noblewoman rides, but I haven't had enough time! What if I should slip and fall from the horses' backs? What if I am unable to manage my mounts?

At last I am dressed and ready. My only female companion is Prisaq, a slave my uncle won playing cards in the southlands. She is one of those miserable birdpeople, but she tries to do her best for me. She is not permitted to wear clothing, and has no idea how to care for cloth precious or otherwise. She can work wonders with the tangled mess that is my hair, though!

The other young noblewomen stand by their horses; at a signal we all mount up. The stance is difficult, but I manage! I'll be the last to ride forth, because I'm the youngest. Oh, the first girls are off, and how beautiful and graceful they are!

Lord of All Horses, riding two of your children at once is no easy feat! I don't think I can do this! My legs are already so weary from standing in the saddles, and my scarves and veils and cloak are dragging me down -- I feel like I'm going to faint!

I'm being called up at last! My knees are all wobbly - I'm sure to fall...I look over my right shoulder and catch the quickest glimpse of Father. I'm the only daughter and I never knew my mother. I know it is very hard to relate to me; but in that instant I saw in his eyes such an intense pride, such a fierce love as I'd never heard him speak to me. I felt as if he was willing every strength of his body into mine; he seemed so confident I would ride forth with the best of the young noblewomen!

I am Ryssere of Easthold and I ride now, with grace or gracelessly as I fear! At least I have with me a little of my Father's confidence, but wish me luck anyway, and the swiftness of the Lord of All Horses!
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