Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

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Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Foolster41 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 05:08

Someone else posting about a deck of cads in their world made me think of what a card game would look like in my con-world, so here is Doshsoldash, a card game commonly played in Saltha. It's a game played by two players, and sometijmes used as a gambling game.

(Version 2)

The Deck
A Doshsoldash deck has 44 cards, in five suits. Each suit is a divine and their ruling element.
A deck has two of each of the following cards
Flame (1-4) & Girela
Wind (1-4) & Lykei
Stone (1-4) & Kakela
Scrolls (1-4) & Kai
Gikara (Male lover) & Gikari (Female lover)

Goal
The goal of the game is to build a higher scoring "temple" of 5 cards, by the time either player signals they are done, or the deck runs out of cards.

Rules
A player is chosen as dealer. The cards are shuffled, and each player is dealt 7 cards. The rest of the cards are put in the
center as a deck. The top card is then turned face up and put into the discard.

Starting with the dealer, each player on their turn chooses to either draw a card from the deck, or take a card from the discard. They then discard a card from their hand. At the end of a player's turn if they have 5 cards that are all within scoring conditions that player may declare "End", in which case both players show their hands and they are scored.

At the end of the turn when the last card is drawn form the deck, the game ends.

Scoring
Players only choose 5 cards to score (their temple) The other two cards are set aside.

Players get the following scores for their cards. Cards cannot count towards multiple scoring combinations.

Code: Select all

 Run of 1,2,3 & 4 and divine, no single suit.                      10 Points
 Girela, Kai, Lykei, Kakela and one of the lovers                 30 Points 
 Run of 1,2,3 & 4 of a single suit and unmatching divine          30 Points
 Run of 1,2,3 & 4 and the Divine of a single suit                 50 Points 
 2 to 4 matching number cards of different elements                 Points equal to the face value for each card. (Example: Three 3s is 9 Pts)
 Complete set of four numbers                                     Points equal to the face value times 5.(Example: Four 4s is 20 Pts)
 Both Lovers                                                      10 Points
 2 to 4 different divines (but only one lover counts)              5 Points for each divine. 
In addition, any "junk cards" that do not fit into a hand the player subtracts the face value of each of those cards, of 5 points for each divine or lover.

---

Odds of outright draw

Code: Select all

 Hand			     Points      Odds
 Four of a kind    20          8:13,167 (.06%)
 Two Lovers        10          10:231 (4.3%)
 Five Divines	   30          1:13,1567 (.00759%)
 Suit Run		    50          1:26,334 (.03679%)
--
I'm not sure if the scoring makes any sense, or if there's an optimal strategy. I tired to make the scoring at least somewhat the odds of getting that hand. I haven't gotten a chance to play-test it. (I did make a deck in Tabletop simulator if someone wants to try it, or we could play on Roll20 which is free). I played a little with myself to get a general idea of the game with a standard deck of cards(1-4 & K of each suit, and two jokers).
Does the rules make sense? Is it too simple?

E: Increased deck to 44 cards, increased the hand size to 7 cards (though only 5 score, and added some new scoring options)
Last edited by Foolster41 on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 03:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Axiem » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 19:55

It sounds a lot like Phase 10 or other variants of Rummy, but with a smaller deck, and different scoring rules. Because of that, it feels to me like it's more meant to be a casual game, or a kids' game. I may also be missing something.
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 20:52

I'd love to see your idea(s) for what the cards would look like. I've been casually crafting an alternate world deck for a long time.
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by elemtilas » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 21:28

Thrice Xandvii wrote:I'd love to see your idea(s) for what the cards would look like. I've been casually crafting an alternate world deck for a long time.
And I'd like to see both!
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 23:18

elemtilas wrote:And I'd like to see both!
So as not to steal any (more) thunder here, I will post over in the Spam Thread... or maybe the Accomplishment thread? Either way, I'll post some pics of both decks I made.
Edit: Added a link to my post.
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Foolster41 » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 01:31

Axiem: Yeah, I fear there's too few cards to make the game interesting. I'm thinking of doubling the deck at least. I don't know what that does to the odds exactly, though the value order of the hands should be the same.

Thrice & elemtilas:
I'm not an artist, so I took some royalty free images from game-icons.net with my own drawings and made these mock-ups:

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Last edited by Foolster41 on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 06:39, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Axiem » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 02:02

Foolster41 wrote:Axiem: Yeah, I fear there's too few cards to make the game interesting. I'm thinking of doubling the deck at least. I don't know what that does to the odds exactly, though the value order of the hands should be the same.
For reference: Phase 10 has a 108-card deck (which basically means it's two 54-card decks smashed together, with some substitutions).

Like, I think the game as laid out sounds pretty reasonable; I think tweaking the cards and the count would make it better, though. (In much the same way that I feel like Euchre is not as fun/interesting a game as Hearts or Spades, despite being pretty similar; but the smaller deck seems to impede interesting games from developing)


Is the deck specialized to this game, or is it just a generic deck of cards that many games can be played with, and this happens to be one of them?
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Foolster41 » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 02:20

I like to think it's like the hanafuda/go stop deck where there might be different games, but this is the one I've written so far.

E: And the thing is, Hanafuda only has 4 cards per suit, but there's 12 suits, so there's plenty of cards. I'm starting to think a hand size of only 5 cards is a bit too small, and I mgiht increase it to 10.
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by elemtilas » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 03:22

Axiem wrote:Like, I think the game as laid out sounds pretty reasonable; I think tweaking the cards and the count would make it better, though. (In much the same way that I feel like Euchre is not as fun/interesting a game as Hearts or Spades, despite being pretty similar; but the smaller deck seems to impede interesting games from developing)
Agreed about the game sounding interesting and reasonable!

Fewer cards means either fewer strategic opportunities or much faster game play. Note that Spanish decks of cards comes in two varieties, one having 40 cards. The smallest deck is for piquet, and that has but 32 cards. So, 22 cards may be a bit on the slim side, but I think could be usable if you design the right games for it.

There's also no reason why folks can't use different deck sizes for different games.

At the other end, you've got taroc and that has 78 cards. There are also eight suit packs with 108 cards.
Edit: I see you've edited the original post to make for 44 cards. Does this mean a doubling of the 22 card pack?
Last edited by elemtilas on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 05:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by elemtilas » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 03:24

Foolster41 wrote:I'm not an artist, so I took some royalty free images from game-icons.net with my own drawings and made these mock-ups:
Spoiler:
Image
Could you crop and magnify the image? The designs look interesting, but are terribly small!
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Foolster41 » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 06:42

I fixed it with a better image.
I also made some changes to the OP, doubling the number of cards (Yeah, 2 or each card) and did some tweaks to the rules.

I feel it's a little weird having multiples of the same divines though. the reason I wanted to make each suit cards 5 is 5 is an important number to Salthans (As is 25, because 5*5=25). Maybe I could make it 5 + Divines.

I was considering including 3 more cards for the lovers suits, but I wasn't sure what the "element" would be (Hearts being associated with love was around the end of the middle ages, a bit later setting wise for my story)

E: Hmm. it seems too easy to make winning hands, even if you're the one to not go out. Maybe I need to jusst increase the scoring hand size to 7, and forget the "building the temple" aspect.
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by elemtilas » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 19:21

Foolster41 wrote:I fixed it with a better image.
I also made some changes to the OP, doubling the number of cards (Yeah, 2 or each card) and did some tweaks to the rules.
Ah, I like the look of them!

Would be cool if you had a deck printed up... Awesome bit of concultural artifactery!
I feel it's a little weird having multiples of the same divines though. the reason I wanted to make each suit cards 5 is 5 is an important number to Salthans (As is 25, because 5*5=25). Maybe I could make it 5 + Divines.
Perhaps in stead of multiple divines, you could replace them with some other culturally important symbol and then keep the original number of divines as a kind of trump cards?

On the other hand, perhaps people are well aware the importance of numerology inherent in the cards, but are under no impression that there actually extra divines in reality. This is just cards after all!

On the third hand, maybe they are terribly sensitive about this kind of thing! You'll just have to work around what is terribly important to them, things that are too sacred to mess around with.

I'm working on a couple tile games from The World at present. I'll post those by and by. But I do like what you've got going here --- keep at it!
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Foolster41 » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 19:45

Well, I meant more mechanically than culturally, having multiple divines does some weird things with the way the game's scored (it seems weird counting dupes of the same divine in a divine tableau, so you end up keep getting junk cards). I suppose the problem is the same with numbers as well.

Maybe I need to increase the numbers to 1-9 and a divine in each suit, and adding some sort of symbol for the lovers for 1-8 of that suit. upping the cards to 50)
elemtilas wrote:
Foolster41 wrote:I fixed it with a better image.
But I do like what you've got going here --- keep at it!
Thanks!
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Axiem » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 20:38

Foolster41 wrote: the reason I wanted to make each suit cards 5 is 5 is an important number to Salthans
A thing I have discovered, also having concultures with important numbers: trying to incorporate those numbers everywhere is a) hard and b) ultimately leaves me with something that feels unrealistic. It certainly is the sort of thing that'd show up in a lot of random places, but there are times where practicality takes precedence.

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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by elemtilas » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 22:32

Axiem wrote:A thing I have discovered, also having concultures with important numbers: trying to incorporate those numbers everywhere is a) hard and b) ultimately leaves me with something that feels unrealistic. It certainly is the sort of thing that'd show up in a lot of random places, but there are times where practicality takes precedence.
The trick there is not making it obvious. Hiding those cultural goodies down deep. Even in playing cards, to which one can ascribe all kinds of symbolism. Three court cards is the Trinity. Twelve court cards is the Zodiac. Four suits are the four seasons. Two suit colours are the winter and summer halves of the year. Etc.
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Re: Doshsoldash (Salthan card game)

Post by Foolster41 » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 23:05

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if I'm using 5 too much.
It's in their calender system (5 days a week, 5 weeks a moth, though that leaves some extra days) and math system (they used a base-25 system).

I'm going to try a new rule pass expanding each suit to 1-9, so with 46 cards total.
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