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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2017, 17:12 
sinic
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clawgrip wrote:
Transatlantic confusion strikes again. "Do let's" and "Don't let's" are acceptable in British English (are they normal or a bit stuffy though? British people please elaborate!). I guess it shows the speaker's enthusiasm.


British here - they remind me very much of reading Enid Blyton, so for me at least it sounds old-fashioned or quaint. [:)]


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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2017, 20:08 
mayan
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I guess Russian жена and четир are cognates of Latin quattuor and English queen.
According to russian the first vowel was palatal and according to the centum langs there was a labialized velar. I'm I right?

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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2017, 20:23 
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Omzinesý wrote:
I guess Russian жена and четир are cognates of Latin quattuor and English queen.

That much, was what I learned in university.


Omzinesý wrote:
According to russian the first vowel was palatal and according to the centum langs there was a labialized velar. I'm I right?

But as for that part, I don't know.

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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2017, 20:49 
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eldin raigmore wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:
I guess Russian жена and четир are cognates of Latin quattuor and English queen.

That much, was what I learned in university.


Omzinesý wrote:
According to russian the first vowel was palatal and according to the centum langs there was a labialized velar. I'm I right?

But as for that part, I don't know.


Seems to be correct, with PIE having *gʷḗn (жена and queen) and *kʷetwóres (четыре and quattuor). I'm assuming "palatal" here means "front", but with PIE being reconstructed the way it is (laryngeal hypothesis and all that), most non-zero-grade vowels are likely to be *e anyway, if I remember correctly.

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2017, 22:44 
mayan
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sangi39 wrote:
eldin raigmore wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:
I guess Russian жена and четир are cognates of Latin quattuor and English queen.

That much, was what I learned in university.


Omzinesý wrote:
According to russian the first vowel was palatal and according to the centum langs there was a labialized velar. I'm I right?

But as for that part, I don't know.


Seems to be correct, with PIE having *gʷḗn (жена and queen) and *kʷetwóres (четыре and quattuor). I'm assuming "palatal" here means "front", but with PIE being reconstructed the way it is (laryngeal hypothesis and all that), most non-zero-grade vowels are likely to be *e anyway, if I remember correctly.

So the sibilants in Russian are created by the second palatalization due to *e?

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2017, 23:08 
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Omzinesý wrote:
sangi39 wrote:
eldin raigmore wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:
I guess Russian жена and четир are cognates of Latin quattuor and English queen.

That much, was what I learned in university.


Omzinesý wrote:
According to russian the first vowel was palatal and according to the centum langs there was a labialized velar. I'm I right?

But as for that part, I don't know.


Seems to be correct, with PIE having *gʷḗn (жена and queen) and *kʷetwóres (четыре and quattuor). I'm assuming "palatal" here means "front", but with PIE being reconstructed the way it is (laryngeal hypothesis and all that), most non-zero-grade vowels are likely to be *e anyway, if I remember correctly.

So the sibilants in Russian are created by the second palatalization due to *e?


Russian ж has a number of different sources, I think, PIE *gʰ, *gʷʰ, *g and *gʷ before front vowels and *j as part of the first palatalisation, *zj (from PIE *ǵy and *ǵʰy) and later *žj, while ч mostly just comes from *k and *kʷ as part of the first palatalisation and later *čj.

From what I can recall, a lot of instances of /s/ and /z/ in Russian come from original *s and then velars during the second palatalisation or the palato-alveolars in PIE while the Russian post-aveolars come from the PIE velars and labiovelars during the first palatalisation and Proto-Balto-Slavic sibilants during iotisation.

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