So, I´m sure there are other posts on this - I have seen several, I´ve been casually browsing for an hour or so reading..
Today marked the day where I changed, for the third or fifth time, both the sounds within my phonology, and well, equally with that phonotactic constraints.
For now I´ve given my language the name ´Étlang´, just as a pseudonym, as I haven´t thought of a conlang specific name I´m happy with yet.
So these are the sounds within the language (I´ll be using X-SAMPA as I don´t know the IPA by heart, yet, though I´m learning - I´m assuming that this is where I use a letter and then reference another language that uses x sound, rather than the SAMPA IPA alphabet? I hope so or I probably have no place posting here )
The vowels are as follows:
a (As in English father), a: (As in a in Old English bæc, it's standing in 'til I can configure my keyboard to my taste), i (again, as in English in, very short), e (as in Finnish), u (as in Icelandic ú), and y (as in Icelandic í/ý). Long vowels are marked with an acute accent (This is because I am using Icelandic keyboard to write, thus it is easier). There are various dipthongs but I will leave those as being unimportant for this thread. Although I guess æ should be mentioned (I believe the IPA is ai or aj, forgive my ignorance, it is pronounced as in Icelandic). I would also like to include u as in fyrd or german ü, I´m writing it as ö for now, but ´til I get around to reconfigurating my keyboard, it serves fine for personal use - It is quicker to type than pasting out of word´s symbols, and ´til I begin making a larger lexicon, I don´t find any immediate problem. I shalt simply not insult ye with such spellings if I post anything online
The consonants are as follows (most of these correspond directly to their IPA I believe): t (as in English to), w (as in English), r (Trilled, Swedish), j (IPA J), p (like in pot/pauper), s (as in English), d (again, as english), f/v (Normally always pronounced as v), g (changes pronounciation much like icelandic g), h (as in English), k (as in king/cyning), l (as in english), x (pronounced like the ch in loch), b (as english), n (English), m (English), ng (As in the suffix -ing), nk (As in think), þ and ð (as in icelandic), ll (I decided to use the same spelling for this sound as it is used in Icelandic for familiarity), c (pronounced ch in child - one I know in IPA actually :l ) and cg is pronounced as in Old English/dg in edge. Sc makes the sh sound in modern english.
The grammar is planned to be a mix of the Eskimo-Aleut, Finnic, and Germanic language groups (well, only one specifically, Old English).
Now, my main problem is with phonotactic constraints (and my abuse of representation above), I have changed these about, fiddled for hours, specified allowed consonant groups, etc, and I still can't get what I want.
Simply, i wish the sound to be fairly artlang-like, I want it to have an Old English feeling, if that makes sense. My reasoning for this is I simply love the sound of the language. I would also like it to have some feeling reminiscent of Hungarian with a Swedish sound. I am completely unsure to explain this in more precise terms (I think I've shown my incompetence enough).
No matter how much I fiddle around with phonology, add/remove sounds (my handwritten versions uses more accurate representation/romanisation, you'll be glad to know, and I'm developing my own script), I can't get it to sound how I want. Now, you probably ask yourself, why don't I just make up a few words and develop the constraints from there? Unfortunately, I'm finding this quite hard. I seem to have conlangers block as far as ideas for word roots that aren't merely copies of english (Many of the meanings of words are different though, I am speaking specifically of the sounds here).
Next, I would ask about developing a font for my script - My script isn't final, and it has changed alot due to my fiddling with allowed syllable structure, etc, but it largely reflects a semi-syllabary close to design in Japanese katakana, where vowels are represented with various diacritics, and simple consonant characters are combined to make one character.
My question is, how would one configure their computer to type like this? If I remember rightly, the Japanese keyboards would change the preceding character based on what you input next for CV groups. This is what I want to do so I can apply my font. I already asked in another thread, but I thought, as I was making a general parade of noobery, lets ask here too [:|.
Thanks for any help with any of those.
Next, is there any thread here, or any direct links (or threads containing links), that I can use to alleviate my chronic noobness? While I have had a passion for languages for a long time, I rarely looked at the more involved study of it. This is my first attempt at conlanging, and, as is apparent, I don't know much.
Þakka þér fyrir!
On being a noob... And on my phonology...
Re: On being a noob... And on my phonology...
X-SAMPA stands for "Extended SAMPA". It's meant to add more to detail to the SAMPA alphabet to match the IPA
This is IPA
Vowels
/æ ɪ e~ɛ u i/<a i e u y>
/ai æː ɪː eː~ɛː uː iː/<æ á í é ú ý>
Consonants
/n m ŋ/ <n m ng>
/t p d k b/ <t p d k b >
/f v θ̠ ð̠ ʃ s x h/<f v þ ð s sc x h>
/w r j/<w r j>
/t͡ɬ t͡ʃ d͡ʒ ŋk/<ll c sc cg nk>
I refuse to insert <g> because romanizations are meant to be concise and simple. <h> may be /ɦ/
This is IPA
Vowels
/æ ɪ e~ɛ u i/<a i e u y>
/ai æː ɪː eː~ɛː uː iː/<æ á í é ú ý>
Consonants
/n m ŋ/ <n m ng>
/t p d k b/ <t p d k b >
/f v θ̠ ð̠ ʃ s x h/<f v þ ð s sc x h>
/w r j/<w r j>
/t͡ɬ t͡ʃ d͡ʒ ŋk/<ll c sc cg nk>
I refuse to insert <g> because romanizations are meant to be concise and simple. <h> may be /ɦ/
Last edited by qwed117 on 18 Apr 2015 21:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: On being a noob... And on my phonology...
Lêse, lêse, lêse! omthiselfeswathe of stafscrafôth! laste thu on tongomakundum!Hælæif wrote:Next, is there any thread here, or any direct links (or threads containing links), that I can use to alleviate my chronic noobness? While I have had a passion for languages for a long time, I rarely looked at the more involved study of it. This is my first attempt at conlanging, and, as is apparent, I don't know much.
Just keep reading; engage yourself fully in wordcraft; carry on making languages! Or words to that effect... I said the other day and will say to you: tincture of time and pills of practice, that's what the doctor orders for glossopoetic inexperience!
ei suuo bedô!Hælæif wrote:Þakka þér fyrir!
You're welcome!
Re: On being a noob... And on my phonology...
Welcome Hælæif! Do you speak any Icelandic ?
Qwed, is that supposed to be Hælæif’s language? I think you missed some of the sounds. (/v/, /l/, /ɑ/ and /ʏ/).
From what I understand, this language’s sounds would be represented in IPA like this:
Order: /phonemes/ < written representation > [phonetic realization]
A tilde ~ represents variation between two options based on the position of the sound in the word or syllable (positional allophony).
When I was unsure, I used parentheses in the form (x or y) to represent alternate IPA letters that could be used.
Vowels:
/ɑ (æ or a) ɪ e̞ u i (ʏ or y)/ < a a i e u y ö > [ɑ (æ or a̟) ɪ e̞ u i (ʏ or y)]
/ai̯/ < æ >
Consonants:
/m n ŋ/ < m n ng~n(k) >
/p b t d k g/ < p b t d k g > [p~pʰ b̥~b t~tʰ d̥~d k~kʰ g̊~g~ɣ]
/t͡ʃ d͡ʒ (t͡l or t͡ɬ)/ < c cg ll > [/t͡ʃ~t͡ʃʰ d͡ʒ~d̥͡ʒ (t͡l or t͡ɬ)/
/v θ ð s ʃ x/ < v~f þ ð s sc x >
/w r j l h/ < w r j l > [w r j l~ɫ h~ɦ]
Allophony: voiceless plosives and affricates /p t k/ are aspirated [pʰ tʰ kʰ t͡ʃʰ (t͡ɬʰ?) ] when at the start of stressed syllables. Voiced plosives and affricates /b d g d͡ʒ/ may be partially or fully devoiced [b̥ d̥ g̊ d̥͡ʒ] at the start or end of a word, but are never aspirated. Intervocallically, /g/ is realized as /ɣ/.
The lateral consonat /l/ is realized as clear l [l] at the start of syllables and dark l [ɫ] at the end of syllables.
Voiced consonants like /w j l/ are partially devoiced /ẘ ȷ̊ l̥/ when they follow an /h/ or a phonetically aspirated consonant in the same syllable.
Hælæif, tell me if anything about what I wrote above is confusing.
Qwed, is that supposed to be Hælæif’s language? I think you missed some of the sounds. (/v/, /l/, /ɑ/ and /ʏ/).
From what I understand, this language’s sounds would be represented in IPA like this:
Order: /phonemes/ < written representation > [phonetic realization]
A tilde ~ represents variation between two options based on the position of the sound in the word or syllable (positional allophony).
When I was unsure, I used parentheses in the form (x or y) to represent alternate IPA letters that could be used.
Vowels:
/ɑ (æ or a) ɪ e̞ u i (ʏ or y)/ < a a i e u y ö > [ɑ (æ or a̟) ɪ e̞ u i (ʏ or y)]
/ai̯/ < æ >
Consonants:
/m n ŋ/ < m n ng~n(k) >
/p b t d k g/ < p b t d k g > [p~pʰ b̥~b t~tʰ d̥~d k~kʰ g̊~g~ɣ]
/t͡ʃ d͡ʒ (t͡l or t͡ɬ)/ < c cg ll > [/t͡ʃ~t͡ʃʰ d͡ʒ~d̥͡ʒ (t͡l or t͡ɬ)/
/v θ ð s ʃ x/ < v~f þ ð s sc x >
/w r j l h/ < w r j l > [w r j l~ɫ h~ɦ]
Allophony: voiceless plosives and affricates /p t k/ are aspirated [pʰ tʰ kʰ t͡ʃʰ (t͡ɬʰ?) ] when at the start of stressed syllables. Voiced plosives and affricates /b d g d͡ʒ/ may be partially or fully devoiced [b̥ d̥ g̊ d̥͡ʒ] at the start or end of a word, but are never aspirated. Intervocallically, /g/ is realized as /ɣ/.
The lateral consonat /l/ is realized as clear l [l] at the start of syllables and dark l [ɫ] at the end of syllables.
Voiced consonants like /w j l/ are partially devoiced /ẘ ȷ̊ l̥/ when they follow an /h/ or a phonetically aspirated consonant in the same syllable.
Hælæif, tell me if anything about what I wrote above is confusing.
Re: On being a noob... And on my phonology...
What you describe is an abugida/alphasyllabary like the various Indic scripts, not a syllabary like Japanese kana.Hælæif wrote:Next, I would ask about developing a font for my script - My script isn't final, and it has changed alot due to my fiddling with allowed syllable structure, etc, but it largely reflects a semi-syllabary close to design in Japanese katakana, where vowels are represented with various diacritics, and simple consonant characters are combined to make one character.
My question is, how would one configure their computer to type like this? If I remember rightly, the Japanese keyboards would change the preceding character based on what you input next for CV groups. This is what I want to do so I can apply my font. I already asked in another thread, but I thought, as I was making a general parade of noobery, lets ask here too [:|.
Thanks for any help with any of those.
Next, is there any thread here, or any direct links (or threads containing links), that I can use to alleviate my chronic noobness? While I have had a passion for languages for a long time, I rarely looked at the more involved study of it. This is my first attempt at conlanging, and, as is apparent, I don't know much.
Þakka þér fyrir!
Beware of confusing fonts with input methods; they are tied to each other, but they are not the same thing. First of all, since you are making your own consript, it is by default not recognized by your computer as such. You will have to place your script in a range that belongs to another script, or to a personal use range. Most people just put their glyphs in the Latin range, because this is easiest for input and it has no special restrictions. If you put your script in the katakana range, you will be able to type your script using the Japanese IME, the caveat being that your computer will believe it is katakana, so your script will be constrained by the requirements of katakana.
Putting your script in the range of a complex script like Devanagari, that functions similar to how you have described your own script would be even worse, because programs won't render your font unless it contains all the OpenType functions necessary for rendering Devanagari properly, so unless your script is functionally identical to Devanagari, this is not a viable option. Probably your best bet is to just put something in the Latin range.
Re: On being a noob... And on my phonology...
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It all makes sense, though I had to reread it. I think, I know the base IPA, it´s just I have trouble applying it within actual words, if that makes sense.
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Is there any advice on how to do this?
As for the phonotactic constraints, I think I will go through a range of texts of the langauge's sounds who I wish to influence it with, and see if I can come up with some combination/ideas that I like.
Thanks! :)
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