Yay or Nay? [2011–2018]

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LinguoFranco
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by LinguoFranco »

I decided on a name of a county to be Tlaxona. It comes from tala meaning "earth or land" and xona meaning "'man or person." I figured tala could be shortened to tla-, but Tlaxona looks to Mesoamerican. I love Mesoamerican languages, and I was certainly inspired by them, but I don't want to rip off of them.

What do you think?
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Frislander
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Frislander »

If it's just a happy coincidence and the language otherwise doesn't look Mesoamerican, then there's no need to worry. (That's a yay, by the way).
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LinguoFranco
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by LinguoFranco »

Alright. What would you think of a noun class system based on the four elements?
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elemtilas
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by elemtilas »

LinguoFranco wrote:Alright. What would you think of a noun class system based on the four elements?
Yay. Describe it a little... Like, which four elements? How did the system come about? (It sounds, perhaps, overly philosophical to arise naturally.)
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LinguoFranco
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by LinguoFranco »

elemtilas wrote:
LinguoFranco wrote:Alright. What would you think of a noun class system based on the four elements?
Yay. Describe it a little... Like, which four elements? How did the system come about? (It sounds, perhaps, overly philosophical to arise naturally.)
Good point. I am thinking of the fire, earth, air, water combination. Some of it can be stretched with any cooked objects belonging to the fire class, for example. Humans could be any of the classes, we're mostly made up of water, we need air to breathe, we are buried in the earth and return to dust, and we have the fire of life and passion.
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elemtilas
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by elemtilas »

LinguoFranco wrote:
elemtilas wrote:
LinguoFranco wrote:Alright. What would you think of a noun class system based on the four elements?
Yay. Describe it a little... Like, which four elements? How did the system come about? (It sounds, perhaps, overly philosophical to arise naturally.)
Good point. I am thinking of the fire, earth, air, water combination. Some of it can be stretched with any cooked objects belonging to the fire class, for example.
Perhaps also "things that are rhythmically set it motion"? Like waves and grass and waterfalls. Things that are energetic like insects and puppies and small children. Hot emotions like envy and revenge.
Humans could be any of the classes, we're mostly made up of water, we need air to breathe, we are buried in the earth and return to dust, and we have the fire of life and passion.
Ah. Hence the "fifth element" class...
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Frislander »

elemtilas wrote:(It sounds, perhaps, overly philosophical to arise naturally.)
That didn't stop DJP giving High Valyrian solar, lunar, terrestrial and aquatic as its gender system.
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elemtilas
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by elemtilas »

Frislander wrote:
elemtilas wrote:(It sounds, perhaps, overly philosophical to arise naturally.)
That didn't stop DJP giving High Valyrian solar, lunar, terrestrial and aquatic as its gender system.

Was that the primitive ur-system, or was the more alchemicophilosophical system placed later?
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Frislander
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Frislander »

elemtilas wrote:
Frislander wrote:
elemtilas wrote:(It sounds, perhaps, overly philosophical to arise naturally.)
That didn't stop DJP giving High Valyrian solar, lunar, terrestrial and aquatic as its gender system.

Was that the primitive ur-system, or was the more alchemicophilosophical system placed later?
IDK, you ask him. The wiki gives precious little info of the history of the system.
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LinguoFranco
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by LinguoFranco »

elemtilas wrote:
LinguoFranco wrote:
elemtilas wrote:
LinguoFranco wrote:Alright. What would you think of a noun class system based on the four elements?
Yay. Describe it a little... Like, which four elements? How did the system come about? (It sounds, perhaps, overly philosophical to arise naturally.)
Good point. I am thinking of the fire, earth, air, water combination. Some of it can be stretched with any cooked objects belonging to the fire class, for example.
Perhaps also "things that are rhythmically set it motion"? Like waves and grass and waterfalls. Things that are energetic like insects and puppies and small children. Hot emotions like envy and revenge.
Humans could be any of the classes, we're mostly made up of water, we need air to breathe, we are buried in the earth and return to dust, and we have the fire of life and passion.
Ah. Hence the "fifth element" class...
I could do that, but I think humans would fit best in the earth class, at least when it comes to their physical bodies and because we prefer living on land, and the society that speaks the language may not be scientifically advanced enough to really know what humans are really made of.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by eldin raigmore »

LinguoFranco wrote:I could do that, but I think humans would fit best in the earth class, at least when it comes to their physical bodies and because we prefer living on land, and the society that speaks the language may not be scientifically advanced enough to really know what humans are really made of.
Technically, "human" is (or seems to be or is claimed to be) etymologically related to "humus".
Since nearly the beginning of agriculture -- the Neolithic Revolution -- most(?) farming cultures' languages have recognized that people are basically made out of soil.

Don't know that that should have anything to do with your conlang.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by MrKrov »

I have two scenarios. Each is predicated (ha) on adjectives inflecting for gender and also on having distinct attributive-vs-predicative forms. In the first scenario, the predicative forms inflect for gender like attributive adjectives. Predicative nouns then take a proclitic pronoun which express gender, possibly as the start towards a merger of part of speech or whatev.
In scenario two, predictive adjectives have a distinct form, but it is indifferent to gender. Said clitics attach to reestablish gender with them also attaching to nouns by analogy of both being nonverbal predicates or whatev.

Which option is more neat/plausible/whatevs?
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by eldin raigmore »

(I think this question is a binary-choice question, but I haven't figured out how to phrase it as a polar question.)
I have a pair of consocieties, I call Adpihi and Reptigan. Adpihi is the root society out of which Reptigan grows; as my conhistory progresses Adpihi segues into Reptigan.
In Adpihi the kinship system is classificatory.

For instance, one's father's brother is one's "father" and one's mother's sister is one's "mother";
therefore one's father's brother's son and one's mother's sister's son is always one's (classificatory) "brother";
and one's father's brother's daughter and one's mother's sister's daughter is always one's (classificatory) "sister".

But also, a man's wife's sister is his "wife" and a woman's husband's brother is her "husband",
and a man's brother's wife is his own "wife" and a woman's sister's husband is her own "husband".

So, a man's wife's other husband is always his (classificatory) "brother", and a woman's husband's other wife is always her (classificatory) "sister".

But, in Reptigan, same-sex marriages are much more common (or, rather, much less rare);
especially among third-or-later marriages (i.e. both spouses have been married at least twice before),
or marriages between people both of whom are past the age at which they might be expected to beget and/or conceive offspring,
or people who have already had all the offspring they expect to ever want.

So it's not too unusual for someone to have a husband who has a(nother?) husband; or to have a wife who has a(nother?) wife.

Reptigan gets its language, and some of its basic culture, from Adpihi.

So what would someone in Reptigan call their husband's husband? "Brother"? "Husband"? Just use the phrase "husband's husband"? Something else?
What would someone in Reptigan call their wife's wife? "Sister"? "Wife"? Just use the phrase "wife's wife"? Something else?
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 23 Mar 2017 07:04, edited 3 times in total.
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loglorn
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by loglorn »

eldin raigmore wrote:(I think this question is a binary-choice question, but I haven't figured out how to phrase it as a polar question.)
I have a pair of consocieties, I call Adpihi and Reptigan. Adpihi is the root society out of which Reptigan grows; as my conhistory progresses Adpihi segues into Reptigan.
In Adpihi the kinship system is classificatory.

For instance, one's father's brother is one's "father" and one's mother's sister is one's "mother";
therefore one's father's brother's son and one's mother's sister's son is always one's (classificatory) "brother";
and one's father's brother's daughter and one's mother's sister's daughter is always one's (classificatory) "sister".

But also, a man's wife's sister is his "wife" and a woman's husband's brother is her "husband",
and a man's brother's wife is his own "wife" and a woman's sister's husband is her own "husband".

So, a man's wife's other husband is always his (classificatory) "brother", and a woman's husband's other wife is always her (classificatory) "sister".

But, in Reptigan, same-sex marriages are much more common;
especially among third marriages,
or marriages between people both of whom are past the age at which they might be expected to beget and/or conceive offspring,
or people who have already had all the offspring they expect to ever want.

So it's not too unusual for someone to have a husband who has a(nother?) husband; or to have a wife who has a(nother?) wife.

Reptigan gets its language, and some of its basic culture, from Adpihi.

So what would someone in Reptigan call their husband's husband? "Brother"? "Husband"? Just use the phrase "husband's husband"? Something else?
What would someone in Reptigan call their wife's wife? "Sister"? "Wife"? Just use the phrase "wife's wife"? Something else?
I'd go with cousin. I don't know, it sounds slightly more distant than brother but not incredibly so.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by DesEsseintes »

Should I get rid of labialised velars in TLFKAT and have labialisation occur only on uvulars? I've included tables for both below.

Before:

Code: Select all

     stop aspirated  pʰ  p͡m̥ʰ p͡ʂʰ p͡ʟ̝̊ʰ tʰ  t͡n̥ʰ t͡sʰ t͡ɬʰ t͡ʃʰ
              plain  p   p͡m  p͡ʂ  p͡ʟ̝̊  t   t͡n  t͡s  t͡ɬ  t͡ʃ
           ejective  p’  p͡m’ p͡ʂ’ p͡ʟ̝̊’ t’  t͡n’ t͡s’ t͡ɬ’ t͡ʃ’
fricative                m̥ʰ              n̥ʰ  s   ɬ   ʃ
 sonorant     plain      m               n           j
            glottal      m’              n’          j’

     stop aspirated  kʰ  k͡ŋ̊ʰ k͡ʂʰ k͡ʟ̝̊ʰ kʷʰ k͡ŋ̊ʷʰ k͡ʟ̝̊ʷʰ
              plain  k   k͡ŋ  k͡ʂ  k͡ʟ̝̊  kʷ  k͡ŋʷ  k͡ʟ̝̊ʷ
           ejective  k’  k͡ŋ’ k͡ʂ’ k͡ʟ̝̊’ kʷ’ k͡ŋʷ’ k͡ʟ̝̊ʷ’
fricative            x   ŋ̊ʰ  ʂ   ʟ̝̊   xʷ  ŋ̊ʷʰ  ʟ̝̊ʷ
 sonorant     plain  ɰ   ŋ           w   ŋʷ   
            glottal      ŋ’          w’  ŋʷ’  

     stop aspirated  qʰ  q͡ɴ̥ʰ q͡ʟ̝̠̊ʰ qʷʰ q͡ɴ̥ʷʰ q͡ʟ̝̠̊ʷʰ
              plain  q   q͡ɴ  q͡ʟ̝̠̊  qʷ  q͡ɴʷ  q͡ʟ̝̠̊ʷ  
           ejective  q’  q͡ɴ’ q͡ʟ̝̠̊’ qʷ’ q͡ɴʷ’ q͡ʟ̝̠̊ʷ’ 
fricative            X   ɴ̥ʰ  ʟ̝̠̊   Xʷ  ɴ̥ʷʰ  ʟ̝̠̊ʷ
 sonorant     plain      ɴ           ɴʷ    
            glottal      ɴ’          ɴʷ’  
After:

Code: Select all

     stop aspirated  pʰ  p͡m̥ʰ p͡ʂʰ p͡ʟ̝̊ʰ tʰ  t͡n̥ʰ t͡sʰ t͡ɬʰ t͡ʃʰ
              plain  p   p͡m  p͡ʂ  p͡ʟ̝̊  t   t͡n  t͡s  t͡ɬ  t͡ʃ
           ejective  p’  p͡m’ p͡ʂ’ p͡ʟ̝̊’ t’  t͡n’ t͡s’ t͡ɬ’ t͡ʃ’
fricative                m̥ʰ              n̥ʰ  s   ɬ   ʃ
 sonorant     plain      m               n           j
            glottal      m’              n’          j’

     stop aspirated  kʰ  k͡ŋ̊ʰ k͡ʂʰ k͡ʟ̝̊ʰ qʰ  q͡ɴ̥ʰ q͡ʟ̝̠̊ʰ qʷʰ q͡ɴ̥ʷʰ q͡ʟ̝̠̊ʷʰ
              plain  k   k͡ŋ  k͡ʂ  k͡ʟ̝̊  q   q͡ɴ  q͡ʟ̝̠̊  qʷ  q͡ɴʷ  q͡ʟ̝̠̊ʷ  
           ejective  k’  k͡ŋ’ k͡ʂ’ k͡ʟ̝̊’ q’  q͡ɴ’ q͡ʟ̝̠̊’ qʷ’ q͡ɴʷ’ q͡ʟ̝̠̊ʷ’ 
fricative            x   ŋ̊ʰ  ʂ   ʟ̝̊   X   ɴ̥ʰ  ʟ̝̠̊   Xʷ  ɴ̥ʷʰ  ʟ̝̠̊ʷ
 sonorant     plain  ɰ   ŋ               ɴ       w   ɴʷ       
            glottal      ŋ’              ɴ’      w’  ɴʷ’   
Y/N?
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loglorn
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by loglorn »

I'd keep Before.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar »

I prefer the current/"before" version too.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by DesEsseintes »

Thanks for your input, loglorn and shimobaatar. Perhaps I will retain those labialised velars then.
holbuzvala
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by holbuzvala »

I'm trying to think up how to translate 'my name is X.' Obviously, there are several versions available, and these are the ones I've thus far thought up:

1. My name is X
2. They call me X
3. I am X
4. I hold the name X
5. They gave me the name X
6. On/in me is the name X

Which should I use? Or any further suggestions? (P.S. Not a fan of "I call myself X" as I think one shpold relish that one's name is chosen by others and thus delightfully out of our control)
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Creyeditor »

holbuzvala wrote:I'm trying to think up how to translate 'my name is X.' Obviously, there are several versions available, and these are the ones I've thus far thought up:

1. My name is X
2. They call me X
3. I am X
4. I hold the name X
5. They gave me the name X
6. On/in me is the name X

Which should I use? Or any further suggestions? (P.S. Not a fan of "I call myself X" as I think one shpold relish that one's name is chosen by others and thus delightfully out of our control)
Don't forget the passive version: 'I am called X'. This makes most sense to me, since the 'callers' are very unspecific.
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