The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

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DesEsseintes wrote:
Click wrote:I'm clever indeed. [:)]
A biscuit?
Right. A chocolate biscuit.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Ah, finally!

Verbs Verbs Verbs!

Verbs in Nınuıntı are conjugated for person, gender (in the third person) and number of both subject and object (but actually the object endings are clitics I've realised, and I will deal with this in a post soon), along with voice and aspect, which are somewhat conflated.

Verbs are formed from roots into various "grades". Grades expand and/or modify the meaning of the root. In this initial post on verbs, I will cover the first three (and by far the most common) grades and their conjugation.

The Basic Grade of the Verb

A "basic" regular verb in Nınuıntı has a stem (C)V(l/N)Ca.

aca - eat
ata - do
calca - kill
cuta - work
ımpa - lie, deceive
nınca - live

Basic verbs can be transitive or intransitive, depending on the meaning of the verb. However, many are intransitive.

There are also trisyllabic verbs. Many of these start in a-, na-, nı-, ta- and cu-:

atíta - sparkle
namána - shine
nınáca - experience
tacúna - get ready
cupíma - regret

Others do not:

hıúpımpa - dance
túcuma - consider

You may be wondering what those accents are doing there. There are no accents in Nınuıntı orthography, and those accents have no phonetic value. They only serve to indicate which syllable receives the infix when other grades of the verb are formed. You may also notice that this is the second syllable of the verbs starting in one of the five syllables mentioned above, and the first syllable in the second group.

The ı-grade

The ı-grade of the verb is obtained by infixing ı after the vowel of the stem. If the verb has more than two syllables, the infix goes after the accent-marked vowel in the citation form. Another ı is added after the last consonant.

The ı-grade usually has a transitive and/or causative meaning. Almost all basic verbs can form the ı-grade.

Examples:

cuta - workcuıtıa - employ
naca - bend (intr.)naıcıa - bend (tr.)
namána - shinenamaınıa - illuminate
túcuma - considertuıcumıa - 1) give so. food for thought; 2) ask so. to consider

The -a used in the citation form is actually not part of the stem. To obtain the stem, simply remove it, e.g. cuıtı-.

The u-grade

The u-grade is formed in exactly the same way as the ı-grade, except that two u's are infixed instead of two ı's.

The meaning of u-grade verbs is not as predictable as that of ı-grade verbs, but they are almost invariably intransitive.

The original function was to reduce the Aktionsart of the verb to activity as opposed to achievement or accomplishment. That is to say, the action of the verb is no longer expected to have a logical conclusion. Compare "paint (a picture)" and "do some painting".

Verbs in the u-grade therefore often describe behaviour, characteristics and sometimes states.

Some examples:

ata - doautua - act, take action, do something
calca - killcaulcua - kill people randomly, go on a massacre
curúca - (of the heart:) beatcuruucua upat - be alive (lit. there is heartbeat by him)
pıca - bitepıucua - corrode, be corrosive

As u-grade verbs are intransitive, they may use prepositions with their patients.

Pıucua naul cıucua.
be.corrosive on metal-p
It corrodes metals.

Conjugation

The stem of basic grade verbs is identical to the citation form, e.g. aca-. The stem of ı-grade and u-grade verbs is obtained by simply removing the final -a, e.g. naıcıanaıcı-, autuaautu-.

Here are the endings:

Code: Select all

       SUBJ   OBJ
1s     -ıga   -ua  
2s     -ıtı   -ına
3sm    -ø/-a  -at
3sf    -up    -uıt
3sn    -ø/-a  -(u)t
1p     -gın   -ıgın
2p     -tanı  -ıtını
3pm    -ıan*  -ancı
3pf    -ıun*  -uncı
3pn    -ta    -ata
Notes:
  • The third person singular masculine and neuter are identical. If the verb stem ends in -a, or if an object ending follows, the ending is zero (-ø). Otherwise, it is -a.
  • The third-person plural endings change to -am/-um before object clitics -at/-ancı/-ata.
Sample Conjugations

Code: Select all

     -ACA-       -NAICIA-      -AUTUA-

1s   acaıga      naıcııga      autuıga
2s   acaıtı      naıcııtı      autuıtı
3sm  aca         naıcı(a)      autu(a)
3sf  acaup       naıcıup       autuup
3sn  aca         naıcı(a)      autu(a)
1p   acagın      naıcıgın      autugın
2p   acatanı     naıcıtanı     aututanı
3sm  acaıan      naıcııan      autuıan
3sf  acaıun      naıcııun      autuıun
3sn  acata       naıcıta       aututa
Some examples:

Acaıga taıl hııc tuum ıa tuum.
eat-1s.SUBJ meat from day to day
I eat meat every day.

Naa tanaıtıua?
Q see-2s.SUBJ-1s.OBJ
Do/Can you see me?

Nıncagın naın nıınaırınıgın tıı tahua cınıunııt.
live-1p with that-m-p-1p in house small<DIM>
We live with our children in a small house.

Namaınıuncı hıanıac.
shine<TR>-3pf.OBJ sun
The sun shines on them (f.).
- This example illustrates that the third-person singular masc./neuter ending -a disappears before an object clitic.

Naa calcatanıuıt?
Q kill-2p.SUBJ-3sf.OBJ
Are you going to kill her?

Uncaıumancı.
hate-3pf.SUBJ-3pm.OBJ
They (f.) hate them (m.).


Right.

That was the first post on verbs. I'm not sure it made sense. Please point out that it doesn't if it doesn't. And by all means ask questions. [:)]
Edit: Corrected mistakes in the Sample Conjugation table where I had accidentally used the 3rd person singular feminine object endings instead of subject endings.
Last edited by DesEsseintes on 11 Oct 2013 15:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

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More on Forming Questions

First, let's have some question words to play with:

muut - what
muu - how
man - what
manaı - who (m.)*
manuı - who (f.)*
manıl - what thing
macı - where
ıama(cı) - where, whither
hııc macı - whence, from where
man cama - when
man autaı/manautaı - what way
up manautaı - how, in what way/manner
guu manautaı - how, by what method
ıamuut - what for, to what purpose
mıı - why

*the masculine is used by default; if asking specifically who out of a group of females only, the feminine is used.

Question words are left in situ. Adverbial question words and preposition + question word are often found at the end of the sentence.

Ataıun muut tıı aın tahua?
eat-3pf what in DEM house
What are they doing in that house?

Acatanı manıl?
eat-2p which-n
What (thing) are you eating?

Upına muu?
by-2s how
How are you?/How are things with you?

Pata nıın pıtıt ıama?
go-3sn DEM boat to-where
Where is the boat going?

Calca manaı aın tınaıtıluıcı?
kill-3sm who DEM crocodile
Who killed this crocodile?

Calca aın tınaıtıluıcı manaı?
kill-3sm DEM crocodile who
Who did this crocodile kill?

Mana man cama?
come-3sm which time
When is he coming?
(Could also be interpreted as neuter "When is it coming?")

Pataıtı ıamuut?
go-2s to-what
What are you going there for?

Wh-fronting with 'Aı'

To place more emphasis on the question word it can be brought to the front of the sentence using sentence-initial . This gives us questions of the type 'Who/what is it that...'

Aı manaı calca tınaıtıluıcı?
COP who-m kill crocodile
Who was it that killed the crocodile?

Aı manaı calcaat tınaıtıluıcı?
COP who-m kill-3sm.SUBJ-3sm.OBJ
Who was it the crocodile killed?

Aı manıl catatanıt?
COP which-n watch-2p.SUBJ-3sn.OBJ
What are you (pl.) looking at?

As can be seen from the above examples, a fronted object is marked resumptively on the verb. As we will see soon, relative clauses function in much the same way.

Polar Questions with 'Naı'

Questions of the type 'Is it X that...?' are formed along a similar principle using the interrogative naı. Let's first look at a basic question:

Naa acaıan rurulıultın mıuıuıcın?
Q eat-3pm.SUBJ kitten<p> rabbit<p>
Do kittens eat rabbits?

The subject can be fronted so:

Naı rurulıultın acaıan mıuıuıcın?
Q kitten<p> eat-3pm.SUBJ rabbit<p>
Is it kittens that eat rabbits?

And the object can be fronted like this, with a resumptive object clitic on the verb:

Naı mıuıuıcın acaıamancı rurulıultın?
Q rabbit<p> eat-3pm.SUBJ-3pm.OBJ kitten<p>
Is it rabbits that kittens eat?

More later...
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Negating Verbs

ıgı

Verbs are negated with the adverb ıgı, which can immediately follow the verb, or its subject.

Impaıga ıgı!
lie-1s N
I'm not lying!

Manaıan naıpuıcırınua ıgı.
come-3pm sibling-p-1s N
My brothers and sisters are not coming.

Acaıan hunuııltın ıgı anaılın.
eat-3pm whale-p N fish-p
Whales don't eat fish.

gıım

The negative copula gıım can be used with fronted subjects and objects.

Gıımua acaıga anal.
NEG.COP-1s eat-1s.SUBJ fish
I'm not the one who ate the fish.

Gıım nacaruıc tana nıın aıruı.
NEG.COP warrior see-3sm.SUBJ DEM woman
It wasn't the warrior who saw the woman.

Gıım nacaruıc tanaupat nıın aıruı.
NEG.COP warrior see-3sf.SUBJ-3sm.OBJ DEM woman
It wasn't a/the warrior that the woman saw.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

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Verbs: Voice

In this post, I shall introduce three morphemes that come in the subject slot of the verb. Each of these morphemes has a number of functions to do with voice, aspect, and to a lesser extent, tense. For now, however, we will mostly focus on voice.

Middle/Reflexive Voice

The marker for the middle/reflexive voice is -ımı. The logical subject of the sentence is marked as the object of the verb, i.e. with a pronominal enclitic or a following noun. The subject is normally perceived as the agent and patient of the verb, although this is not always the case.

Cataımı lıuut naul puıruıl.
watch-REFL maiden on mirror
The girl is looking at herself in the mirror.

Naıcıımıuıt mıa tırıc.
bend<TR>-REFL-3sf facing king
She bowed before the King.

Nuınıımıancı utu tınaıtıluıcırın.
change<TR>-REFL-3pm become-PTCP crocodile-p
They turned themselves into crocodiles.

The middle/reflexive can also be used as a habitual/customary passive.

Acaımı taıl aacıc ıgı tıı Hıucauua.
eat-REFL meat dog N in Sōkoa
Dog meat is not eaten in Sōkoa.

The Reciprocal Voice

Albeit technically not a voice, the reciprocal is grouped with the other voices as it behaves in the same way grammatically.

The reciprocal marker is -ıltı. The object of the verb (i.e. the logical subject) must be plural.

Haıtııltı uanu nacaruıcual.
face-RECP two warrior-DU
The two warriors faced each other.

Campaıltıancı.
kiss-RECP-3pm
They kissed.
(Note that the masculine is the default gender of groups of mixed gender, so the people kissing here are not necessarily all men, but the fact that the ending is not -uncı tells us they're not exclusively women.)

Uncaıltııgın ıgı.
hate-RECP-1p N
We don't hate each other.

Passive Voice

The passive voice is formed with the marker -ucan, which like the other voice markers occupies the subject slot of the verb. The logical subject is expressed with a following noun or pronominal enclitic.

-ucan always described a perfect passive, i.e. the subject has been X-ed at the time of reference within that discourse. This contrasts with the passive use of -ımı which is of imperfect aspect.

Calcaucanat.
kill-PASS-3sm
He's been killed.

Iıpıucan uluulua.
fry-PASS cake-p
The cakes have been fried.
(Nınuıntı sweets are normally fried in a lot of oil.)

Cuımıucan paracura ıaua.
return-PASS book-p to-1s
The books have been returned to me.


It is a common mistake for learners of Nınuıntı (and that includes me) to use the subject endings with the middle/reflexive, reciprocal and passive voices in Nınuıntı. Indeed, these forms seem to show no agreement with logical subjects that are not pronominal. But in Nınuıntı grammar, these voice endings are the subject endings, and the logical subject is treated as nothing more than an object.
Last edited by DesEsseintes on 26 Oct 2013 15:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by Aseca »

I find it interesting you have basically used the same rules that was in Vedic Sanskrit when forming vowels from the base /a/-/i/-/u/ sounds.

I.e -
e: ai /əɪ/
ai: aai /ɑɪ/
o: au /əʊ/
au: aau /ɑʊ/


Exactly the same as in your 'Ninwindzi' cept for the times when i is reduced to a schwa, and there are no long vowels cept for 'aa', 'ii' and 'uu'.
Sikatāyām kaṇam lokasya darśasi, svargam phale vanye ca.
See a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Ānantam tava karatalena darasi, nityatām ghaṇṭabhyantare ca.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

There is indeed a similarity to Sanskrit there, but I do think /au/ -> [o] and /ai/ -> [e]* are pretty common developments cross-linguistically (I can think of Latin, North-Germanic and Chinese Wu dialects, just off the top of my head). *(correct notation?)

What I find more interesting in Nınuıntı (and that's [nɪnwend͡zɪ], please [:)] ) is that aı/uı [e/we] and au/ıu [o/jo] rhyme, which I find kinda neat. But then we all have different ideas about neatness, I guess.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Verbal Nouns

Verbal nouns in Nınuıntı are for the most part deverbal, i.e. they behave like normal nouns in most situations.

Here I will discuss four common types of deverbal nouns, two of which will prove useful when discussing aspect in Nınuıntı.

Simple Verbal Nouns with Infix -ı-

Many simple verb roots have a corresponding noun formed with an infix ı and dropping the final -a. This is no longer a productive formation.

aca - to eataıc -food
hata - stand uphaıt - stance, posture
pata - to gopaıt - path
tana - to seetaın - sight, event, matter

As can be seen, the meaning of the derived nouns in this category is somewhat arbitrary.

Action Nouns

These nouns are formed by removing the final vowel of the verb stem of basic verbs, ı-grade verbs and u-grade verbs and adding the suffix -aı.

ata - to do → ataı - action, deed, instance
autua - to act, take actionautaı manner, way, method
campa - to kisscampaı kissing
paınıa - to make so. understandpaınaı - explaining, explanation
puca - to huntpucaı - hunting

This formation yields a very versatile action noun that basically means doing X. The noun normally refers to a process and can be used as a subject, object or other argument in a sentence. Furthermore, it can form a possessive construction with the original subject, object or both as possessor.

Tanaıan ataıua taupaul.
see-3pm do.NMLZ-1s yesterday
They saw my action/They saw what I did yesterday.

Aı pucaıancı ın naılıtılııcın taın* rııt nana.
COP hunt-NMLZ-3pm of sea.turtle matter bad very
Their hunting of sea turtles is a terrible thing.

*Note the resumptive use of taın here. Without it, the meaning would be ambiguous: are they hunting very bad sea turtles?

Verbal Nouns of Location

Prefixing ha- to the normal action noun outlined above gives a noun indicating the location and/or circumstance of an action. Some of these have gone on to assume very specific meanings.

cunca - be bornhacuncaı - place of birth, hometown, homeland
nunta - sleephanuntaı - bed
nıpana - take a bathhanıpanaı - bath house

The prefix ha- can also be used with some verbal nouns formed with the ı-infix.

taınhataın - situation

Verbal Nouns of Instance

These are not a separate formation per se, but can be formed from any of the other three groups with the aid of the diminutive suffix -ıut. These nouns indicate an instance of the action rather than a process, but have a tendency to develop somewhat independent meanings.

Let's first see some examples from the first group:

paıt - pathpaıtıut - trip, mission
aıc - foodaıcıut - meal

From the second group:

ımpa - to tell a lieımpaı - lyingımpaııut - a lie
campaı - kissingcampaııut - a kiss

From the third group:

calca - to killcalcaı - killinghacalcaı - murder scenehacalcaııut - murder
nunta - to sleephanuntaııut - (time of) going to sleep

Verbal nouns of instance are often used when establishing the sequence of events, using prepositions such as hatu before, ganat after and hııcın since.

Nıpanaıga hatu hanuntaııutua hııc tuum ıa tuum.
bathe-1s.SUBJ before NMLZ-sleep-NMLZ.DIM-1s from day to day
I take a bath before going to sleep every day.

Nıncaup paranını aıcı hııcın hamanaııutuıt hııc Hıucauua.
live-3sf.SUBJ queen there since NMLZ-come-NMLZ-DIM-3sf from Sōkoa
This is where the Queen has been staying since her arrival from Sōkoa.


The above derivational methods are all very productive, save for the first one. We have also seen that many verbs can form numerous different forms with different nuances.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Happy Birthday!!!

Nınuıntı is a month old today. [:D]

I found this in my notes, dated September 13.
In my notes, I wrote:Nınuıntı grammar ideas

The language is VSO, right-branching,

1. Many grammatical functions are expressed with infixes, some of which may consist of as little as one vowel. Derivational infixes tend to come near the front of the root, while inflectional ones come towards the end.
2. The language should have a rich derivational morphology, but inflections should be kept relatively simple.

ı-shift and u-shift
ıana -> ıaınıa, ıaunua
uma -> uımıa, uumua
ıca -> ııcıa, ıucua
tanuıta -> taınuıtıa, taunuıtua
Are these verb derivative patterns?

Examples of derivational infixes:
-guii-
-gui-

Just wanted to share that. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Aspect in Nınuıntı

Verbs are not overtly marked for aspect, although as we have seen, voice marking can take on aspectual meaning, especially in the passive.

Calcaımı curuucuııcın ra acaımıancı.
kill-REFL animal<PL> and eat-REFL=3sm
Animals are killed and eaten.
(imperfect/habitual)

Culcaucan curuucuııcın ra acaucanancı.
kill-PASS animal<PL> and eat-PASS=3pm
The animals have been killed and eaten.

In this post, I will discuss some other ways of expressing aspect.

Perfect Aspect Marker 'Maı'

The particle maı placed before a verb confers perfect aspect on the verb. Note that it does not behave as a sentence-initial, despite its surface similarity to and naı.

Maı untaıun hacuncaıuncı.
PERF reach-3pf place.of.birth=3pf
They have reached their hometown.

Maı acaıga.
PERF eat-1s
I've eaten/I'm done eating.

Manaıga ra cuuancı maı uıgaıan.
come-1s and COP.PST=3sm PERF leave-3sm
They had already left when I arrived.

Note that the perfect is purely a perfect, and not a perfective/aorist/past.

Ways of Expressing Progressive Aspect

Nınuıntı does not have any morphological features to express progressive aspect, but it can use periphrasis to do so instead. One common way is to use the verbs ınca - to stand and tanta - to sit with the preposition up and an action noun.

Tantaıga up pıpaı mılımuıl Nınuıntı.
sit-1s by study-NMLZ language Nınuıntı
I am/was (sitting and) studying Nınuıntı.

Incaup nuıpuutına up tacuınaı aıcıut taupumı.
stand-3sf sister=2s by prepare-NMLZ meal evening
Your sister is preparing dinner.

Other verbs can also be used:

Hultaıan naunuıcırın up acaıancı.
crouch-3pm.SUBJ wolf-PL by eat-NMLZ=3pm
The wolves are/were (crouching and) eating.

Note that this type of construction cannot be used to express a continuous state such as "sleeping", "boiling", etc.

Another possibility is to use tıı mutamaı followed by an action noun. mutamaı roughly translates as busying, fussing, so the construct translates as "in the middle of ...-ing". It is often used as the backdrop of another action.

Mana ra cuua tıı mutamaı hacutaıua.
come-3sm and COP.PST=1s in busy.about-NMLZ NMLZ-work-NMLZ=1s
He came while I was working/busy with work.

Other periphrastic constructions are possible, but so far none have become grammaticalised enough for us to speak of proper progressive aspect marking in Nınuıntı.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Quick post with some more prepositions and the formation of relative clauses.

More Prepositions

Iacuıcıtını!

aıntıu - without
ca - with, having (ornative)
ganat - after
guu - with (instrumental)
hamua - along (a side)
hatu - before
hııc - from
hııc tıul - according to
hııcın - since
hııcup - from (a person)
ıa - to (allative, dative)
ıacuıc - for
ıagup - to (so. - allative)
ıamıa - towards
ıanaul - onto
ıatıı - into
mıa - facing, across from; (dealing) with
naın - with (comitative)
naul - on
numun - under
nuu - as, like (appearance)
pını - up
pınıtıul - up along
tıı - in, inside
tıul - along (motion), following
u - down
up - by, with; chez
utıul - downwards, down along
utu - (preposition of outcome/product) into, resulting in

I'm going to try and edit in some examples here later...

Relative Clauses

Forming relative clauses is relatively simple. There are no relative pronouns. Relative clauses are placed directly after the NP they qualify. The role of the head noun is clarified by a resumptive verb ending or enclitic. The demonstrative tu is frequently found with the head noun.

Tu punuc mana naınına manaı?
DEM boy come-3sm with-2s who
Who's that boy who came with you?

Tu aıruı manaup taupaul pıamı nana.
DEM woman come-3sf yesterday beautiful very
The woman who came yesterday was very beautiful.

Manaup nıntıum tu aıruı tanaıgauıt taupaul.
Come-3sf today DEM woman see-1s.SUBJ=3sf.OBJ yesterday
(Comes-she today the woman saw-I-her yesterday)*
The woman I saw yesterday is coming today.

Tınaıga ıgı aın naınuıc guuraımı nıncaıan upat ruruılın nanııtın.
like-1s N DEM man old live-3pm by=3sm cat<p> many-p
(like-I not that man old live with-him cats many)*
I don't like that man over there, with whom many cats live.

*These were written for me to keep track of the logic rather than for you guys, but maybe you'll find them helpful too.

If anyone is still reading this, comments and criticisms would be very welcome. [:P]
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by Click »

I think I should tell you that systems with many prepositions such as yours are uncommon outside the Indo-European family.
This doesn’t mean you should get rid of at least a half of your prepositions – keep them. [;)]
DesEsseintes wrote:up - by, with; chez
Can you explain what chez means for us who don’t know French?
DesEsseintes wrote:ıacuıc - for
Dative, benefactive, or both?
DesEsseintes wrote:numun - under
Do phrases such as “below/under the table” and “threw under the table” use the same preposition?
DesEsseintes wrote:Forming relative clauses is relatively simple. There are no relative pronouns. Relative clauses are placed directly after the NP they qualify. The role of the head noun is clarified by a resumptive verb ending or enclitic. The demonstrative tu is frequently found with the head noun.
So it’s a mix of sorts between the gap strategy and the pronoun retention strategy? Me likey.

P.S. Expect a PM concerning inanimate nouns in our collablang somewhere during the next two days.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by kanejam »

I think that's quite a small number of prepositions; English has hundreds, doesn't it?

Just by the way, DesEsseintes, I really like this lang. It has a lot of allophone coupled with simple grammatical unfixed that makes the outcomes look crazy. I'm sure if it had a phonetic orthography rather than phonemic that it would look incredibly irregular. It reminds me of Moten.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Click wrote:I think I should tell you that systems with many prepositions such as yours are uncommon outside the Indo-European family.
This doesn’t mean you should get rid of at least a half of your prepositions – keep them. [;)]
This is something I've seen mentioned several times on this forum, but every language I know uses tons. Outside of IE, Arabic certainly has prepositions aplenty and I suspect Hebrew does as well. Of course, Chinese, Korean and Japanese use relational nouns instead in many situations, but every language surely needs this function. Your remark does however persuade me to do a proper post on Nınuıntı prepositions. For the time being, let me allay any eventual concerns by explaining that some of the prepositions above (e.g. aıntıu, hatu, utu) were originally participles, and some others (numun amongst them) are nominal in origin.
Click wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:up - by, with; chez
Can you explain what chez means for us who don’t know French?
Ah, yes. Sorry. Chez means "at someone's house/place" (cf. Danish hos, Icelandic hjá, Arabic عِندَ ). I always wonder at the lack of this preposition in English, a language so well endowed otherwise.
Click wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:ıacuıc - for
Dative, benefactive, or both?
Literally "to hand of...". Purely dative meaning, used when giving presents, handing over objects, etc. Nıınıl ıacuıcına. - This is for you. If a verb is present, ıa can also be used as a dative on its own, but is more ambiguous.

The benefactive can be explicitly marked using a composite preposition, but I haven't decided what it is yet.
Click wrote:Do phrases such as “below/under the table” and “threw under the table” use the same preposition?
I haven't decided yet, I'm afraid. I've toyed with three possibilities: a) having motion be the default and location marked with tıı numun; b) having location be the default and motion marked with ıa numun; c) both unmarked. Perhaps we can vote on it... :mrgreen:
Click wrote: So it’s a mix of sorts between the gap strategy and the pronoun retention strategy? Me likey.
I'm not sure what it is, as I'm not good at the terminology. But can it be called a gapping strategy when the head noun is always indicated resumptively? I would have called it a purely resumptive strategy. The natlang model is Arabic.
Click wrote:P.S. Expect a PM concerning inanimate nouns in our collablang somewhere during the next two days.
Awes'. [:D]
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by kanejam »

DesEsseintes wrote:
Click wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:up - by, with; chez
Can you explain what chez means for us who don’t know French?
Ah, yes. Sorry. Chez means "at someone's house/place" (cf. Danish hos, Icelandic hjá, Arabic عِندَ ). I always wonder at the lack of this preposition in English, a language so well endowed otherwise.
The English is the enclitic 's with an implied word like 'place' coming after, e.g. I bought it from the butcher's, she's at her friend's etc. I don't think it's quite as versatile as French chez but gets the job done [:)]
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

kanejam wrote:Just by the way, DesEsseintes, I really like this lang. It has a lot of allophone coupled with simple grammatical unfixed that makes the outcomes look crazy. I'm sure if it had a phonetic orthography rather than phonemic that it would look incredibly irregular. It reminds me of Moten.
Thanks again, Kanejam. [:D]

However, I'm not sure what you mean by the words I've underlined above. Perhaps a word is missing due to a typo? Or did your spellcheck change 'infixes' to 'unfixed'?
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by kanejam »

Lol yes it was supposed to be infixes. I'm sorry that all I have at the moment is 'good job', I'll read through it soon now that I've finished the relay [:)]
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Modality in Nınuıntı - Part 1

By modality here I mean desire, intention, ability, obligation, etc.

Modality in Nınuıntı is mostly expressed periphrastically through sentence-initial particles, nouns and even prepositions. There are also a few verbs.

Aınıa - to Want

This one is straight forward. The verb aınıa - to want takes an action noun in -aı as an object. An eventual logical object can be expressed using a possessive construction. It can also be used with a regular noun as object.

Aınııga anal.
want-1s fish.
I want fish.

Aınııga acaı anal.
want-1s eat.NMLZ fish
I want to eat fish.

Other Ways of Expressing Desire & Intention

nantau is a sentence-initial indicating desire. It can be used instead of aınıa with a verb, and unlike aınıa it can be used to express desire that others do something. It can be used with for added emphasis.

Aı nantauua tuıtııtı acaına.
COP desire=1s stop<TR>-2s eat-NMLZ=2s
I do want you to stop (your) eating.

Nantauancı uıgaıan.
desire=3pm leave-3pm
They want to leave. OR They want them to leave.

This second example is ambiguous as there is nothing in this sentence to disambiguate whether the two 3pm's are the same group or not. However, the choice of nantau over aınıa here makes the second interpretation more likely, i.e. that there are two different groups of people, and the first group wants the other to leave.

Other words with similar meanings can be used. hamıanııtaı is a word used in polite speech.

Aı hamıanııtaıua nanııt manatanı upıgın aıma.
COP cherished.thought=1s great come-2p by-1p tomorrow
(lit. It is my great desire that you come by us tomorrow.)
I would be delighted if you would come to our house tomorrow.


hamacaı (the circumstantial verbal noun of maca - to think) is used to express a plan or intention.

Hamacaıat caınatıa tuhıanacat utu tıunut.
intention=3sm exchange-3sm horse=3sm become-PTCP cow
He's planning to trade his horse in for a cow.

I was going to do the section on possibility/ability as well, but I'm so sleepy now that it's going to have to wait.
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by Click »

DesEsseintes wrote:anal
fish

anal
fish
*chuckles immaturely*

The bit with using non-verbs to convey certain kinds of modality is a bit unusual to me, but it fits well with Nınuıntı not using the copula in the present tense.
How are future actions, such as in you will answer the phone conveyed?
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Re: The Esseintial Nınuıntı Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Click wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:anal
fish

anal
fish
*chuckles immaturely*
Yeah, I was waiting for that. I do however think that [ɐnɐl] is a pretty nice-sounding word, and really sounds like a fish. [:)]
Click wrote:The bit with using non-verbs to convey certain kinds of modality is a bit unusual to me, but it fits well with Nınuıntı not using the copula in the present tense.
How are future actions, such as in you will answer the phone conveyed?
There is no explicit way to mark future tense in Nınuıntı. However, predictions and commands in reference to future time will be covered. Basically, I want to create a language where all (or at least most) indications of time/tense are incidental to the semantic functionality of their structures. Does that make sense? What I'm trying to say is that in Nınuıntı, unlike in English, you cannot have a sentence like you will answer the phone that might be a command or a prediction or whatever. Rather, it has to be specified as exactly one of those, or have no tense-marking whatsoever. If you take a look at the ways I presented above of approximating progressive aspect in Nınuıntı, you may get an idea of what I'm talking about. And I would be very interested in hearing what you think of such a (non-)system. [;)]
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