Jutean

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Jutean

Post by jute » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 02:58

After more than half of a year of work, 1282 dictionary entries on CWS and 113 translations (including three songs), I thought I might introduce my language here, originally created for a nation on Nationstates.net.

On the bright side, all the hours I put into it have resulted in four nominations for "Language of the Month" on CWS and have heard all sorts of nice things from some people already.
But on the other side of things I also received a bit of criticism today, that the language is despite my efforts to undo my initial attempts of creating as many derivations from a few roots (hey, I was new to conlanging and fascinated by derivation etymologies...) still to regular and can come across as artificial. Seeing as I, too, have the goal of developing a somewhat naturalistic language, this felt a bit disheartening, but I thought could maybe get some advice here to help me with that.

I have a lot of documentation on CWS already, but I think I'll copy it here one by one, as it's still relatively compact.

First some information about the nation/people I'm developing the language for, and which thus served as a inspiration for the language:
Spoiler:
Quote from my CWS article
Jute (IPA: /ju:tɛ/, Native language: Jute, IPA: /jute/), officially the Community of Jute, is a loose confederation of communities located on an tropical island in a relatively, but not extremely remote ocean location, as well as on the northern part of the continent of Ystel south of it.

Known for its direct democracy, decentralized state (or lack thereof, given the anarchism-like political system) and pacifistic foreign policy, it is also home to a civilization going back about 3000 years, when the first ancestors of the present-day Juteans settled on the island, which has traditionally had a greenist, communitarian culture and a mixture of a moneyless gift and barter economy.
Six known languages are spoken on the island, two of them being the heritage of the colonial era (Lahiri and Jutean Pidgin), two, Klambari and Samwati, indigenous languages being unrelated to the modern Jutic languages, (Coastal or Standard) Jutean and River Jutean, as well as South Jutean, spoken in South Jute in Ystel.
More can be found here or here and here on Nationstates.net, in case anyone is interested. (The introduction on the former is a bit outdated, not mentioning one language that I decided to add later, but the rest should be up to date)

Inspiration
Spoiler:
(Quoting from CWS and my wiki article there)
Since it's a tropical island and I had gotten interested in Hawaii and Hawaiian, the compact phonology is inspired by it, though of course with some changes. For example, it lacks the glottal stop, but has a /j/ and a /ʋ/.
[Aside from the] Hawaiian-reminiscent phonology and typology [it has] a sentence structure inspired by Tagalog and some ergative-absolutive languages, and some influences from a few other languages, like Mandarin and Japanese. Piraha and Tongan also provided some inspirations, as well as English and some more.
Quick rundown on notable features, or lack thereof:
  • Compact phonology with just five base vowels and nine consonants (+ two allophones, and some diphthongs)
  • Tagalog-like Austronesian alignment combined with a split ergativity inspired by English ergative verbs (such as to break, open, melt)
  • Various marked moods, such as Indicative, Imperative, Conditional, Subjunctive and Hortative
  • No distinct passive voice (triggers and ergativity used instead), tense, number (except in some pronouns), articles or adjectives (nouns used)
  • Three genders, one for common/civilization-related words, one for abstract, immaterial, and most general, unknown or unknowable words, and one for all wilderness-related words, especially the rainforest and the ocean.
  • A sizeable number of personal pronouns, featuring four clusitivity distinctions, three/four numbers, three animacy distinctions and gendered inanimate prononus
  • No possessive pronouns or genitive. Inalienable possession is indicated with "a", signifying "of" or "by", alienable possession with relative nominalizations
Phonology
Spoiler:
Image

Diphthongs /ɑi/ /ɑe/ /ɑu/ /ie/ /iɐ/ /iɑ/ /iu/ /ui/ /ue/ /uɐ/ /uɑ/ /eɑ/ /eu/ /ei/ /eɐ/ /ɐu/ /ɐi/ /ɐe/

Triphthongs /iɑ:/ /e:ɑ/

Syllable Structure (C)V(V)(V/C), though CVC, CVVC and particularly CVVV are used sparingly. CV or VC are preferred.
Consonant clusters can thus only appear at syllable boundaries, and only the geminations of /t/, /k/, /m/, /n/ and /l/ as well as two-consonant clusters starting with /n/, /m/ or /l/ are allowed.
VV are either long vowels or vowel diphthongs, and VVV are long diphthongs.

Stress information Mostly on the penultimate syllable, sometimes on the last syllable with a long vowel/diphtong, but it's not fixed and can also be used to emphasize a part of a word, for example the negating suffix '-l' or '-al'.

Orthography
Aa /a/ Dd /d/ Ee /e/ Ff /f/ Hh /h/ Ii /i/ Jj /j/ Kk /k/
Ll /l/ Mm /m/ Nn /n/, /ŋ/ Oo /ɑ/ Ss /s/, /ʃ/ Tt /t/ Uu /u/ Vv /ʋ/

As mentioned above, long vowels are expressed through doubled vowel graphs.

First word of a sentence has a capital letter, as do names.
Will add more information on verbs, nouns, pronouns and syntax later, a lot can be found at the bottom of the page here already, in the articles section
Last edited by jute on Thu 17 Mar 2016, 21:39, edited 9 times in total.
Jutean: Hawaiian phonology meets Tagalog, with English ergativity and Mandarin tenselessness added.
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 14:07

Verbs in Jutean

Verb categories / classes
Verbs in Jutean are usually sorted into two (or three) categories, objectless (the more scientific term being unaccusative or unergative), and split (or ergative). Object-taking or transitive verbs are not always classified as a separate verb class.

The first category refers to verbs who, like their name implies, take no object, are therefore always intransitive, and in addition usually imply at least a vague sense of agency. These are commonly verbs of motion, like to ('go'), ato ('come') or static, like nisaido ('feel energized'), though there are some other ones, like mihinido ('sleep') or moo ('meditate'). Unaccusative verbs (agent-lacking ones) are also usually in this category, such as no ('live, exist').
Of course these can all still use adverbs, as in to li tan ('to go to my home').
These also can't ever convey a passive meaning, aside from more convoluted constructions such as noitono mihinido ('be made to sleep', literally 'be lead to sleep), which use a patient suffix as a trigger on an auxiliary verb, but more on that later.

The second, 'split' or 'ergative' variety refers to more complicated ones. These can both stand in objectless (intransitive) sentences as well as sentences with objects (transitive ones), and depending on which is used convey either a passive or active meaning, similar to for example the English verb to break in The door broke and I broke the door. An example in Jutean would be hemo ('to eat'), where Hemo fal would translate to 'They are all eaten', but Hemo fal kiove would mean 'They all eat something'.

The third one, called 'transitive', covers the verbs who always need an object, such as to learn about. These are rare and often homonyms or additional meanings of ergative verbs, so they aren't always seen as a distinct category. A lot of secondary meanings of daho (base intransitive meaning: 'to have space'), such as 'to accommodate', 'to make room', 'to send into space', to name a few, are transitive.

Moods
Spoiler:
Moods are one of the few things to be marked on verbs in Jutean. There are five moods.

The most basic one is the indicative, for describing reality, general truths and statements proven or, based on some kind of evidence, very likely to be true. It is the default mood and has no suffix.

Vuho vuha ido vuhade a ji. The sun shines at this day
Shine sun at.ABST day-OBL of this.ABST

No nova un havande. Animals live in the wilderness
Live animal in.DANG wilderness-OBL

Saiho ta, ivusaie no ta. I think, therefore I am.
Think 1S, therefore be 1S

Then there's the imperative, for commands and urges. It is formed by reduplicating the first two syllables of the infinitive, however some verbs are irregular here and only reduplicate part of the second syllable. The personal pronoun can be omitted in this case (it is assumed to be you (singular) by default, or is understood through context), but can also be included for emphasis or clarification. They are negated by adding the -l suffix or by using the al particle directly after the verb.

Atoato (na) li hen! Come here!
IMP-come (2S) towards here

Tatatataimo (fan) a he la! Forget about him! (formal 'you')
IMP-forget (3COL.INCL) of IDR 3S

Foofool / Foofoo al (fan) maja a me fan ma! Don't open your (pl) eyes!
IMP-open-NEG / IMP-open NEG (3COL.INCL) eye of OBL 2COL OBL

The next we'll take a look at is the conditional. In Jutean it's used for the hypothetical result of an assumed change in conditions of the world, or, in some cases, for the polite expression of instructions or wishes you don't have much confidence or interest in becoming reality or that are more or less impossible. It's generally seen as the "humble" mood used when talking to someone of high respect or someone you just like that much. It can also be used for exaggerations that are supposed to be a proof of that or just joking.
Formed by adding -ke to the end of the infinitive, which becomes -k in front of words starting with 'h' or in front of verbal particles.

Hokedo no mekoi nuhe hemede ajavi, saimoke to na li saanuti, teoke teko na he uvuf a saanuvade. For there to be fish for food today, you would want to go to the sea, and [there] you would need to get them from below the surface of the sea.
Be-able be fish for food-OBL today, want-COND go 2S to sea-IDR, need-COND retrieve 2S IDR ANIM-PL of below.surface.sea-OBL

Saimoke ta to li neteti. I would like to go to the coast [but if it's not possible, that's fine, too]
Want-COND 1S go to coast-IDR

Hedoke la ooneti nuhe me ta ma. He/She/Sg. They would take down the moon for me.
Take-COND 3S moon-IDR BEN OBL 1S OBL

There's also the subjunctive, among other things for energetic proposals, declarations, resolutions, or wishes you have absolute or near absolute faith in becoming true at some point or the time you mentioned. Also a more polite way to command someone to do something, but also somewhat patronizing at times.

Formed from infinitives with the -t suffix

Not ta a meoduki te. I shall be honest from now on.
Be-SUBJ 1S of honesty onwards

Not na vunamoena hen! You shall become governor here! (I support you in doing so and are sure you will succeed, but it's not certain yet)
Be-SUBJ 2S elder here


Another mood used in Jutean is the hortative, which is often somewhere between the two last ones, used for example for unbinding, but nevertheless assertive or affirmative suggestions, reminders or instructions. This would be translated into English with an auxiliary like "let" or "should". If the subject of the sentence is "fa" (1. person collective inclusive), it can be omitted.
Formed with the -f suffix attached to the infinitive. -fe can also be used, but is considered somewhat archaic, except in front of words starting with "f" themselves, where it's still used.

Tofe fa tuuve. Let us go down
Go-HORT 1COL.INCL down

Saavof na ja. You should clean this.
Clean-HORT 2S this.COMMON
Aspects
Spoiler:
Several aspects exist: habitual, progressive/continuous and perfective are the most common ones. They are usually indicated by adverbs, but sometimes verbs or nouns can also be used for that. They are not shown by affixes or particles on the verb or directly following or preceding it.

(More information to follow.)
Voices
Spoiler:
There are no separate voices in Jutean. Passive, active and other ones are expressed with triggers and/or ergative verbs.
Trigger
Spoiler:
Since Jutean has the Austronesian alignment, it uses triggers to mark the central topic of a sentence. These can also be used to express what other languages use voices or cases at nouns for.

To put it shortly, triggers can signify a change in the morphosyntactic alignment from nominative-accusative or ergative-absolutive or vice versa, or highlight specific objects similar to how definite articles can do it. They can also express that a verb is reflexive or a reciprocal.

Triggers include patient (-no),agent (-mo), causative (-vo), reciprocal (-hut) and reflexive (-he). Instrumental (-de) and Locative (-hen) exist, but are used rarely. They are also attached to the verb, unless it already has mood or gerundive marking. (See chapter "Suffixation" for more information)

Examples for the ergative verb joo (to see)
Image
Transitivity
Spoiler:
In intransitive sentences the meaning is by default understood as patientive. The patient trigger -no is used in transitive sentences to express this, since the agent-trigger is default and unmarked.
An agentive trigger/suffix -mo still exists, is only used in intransitive sentences with ergative verbs to turn it agentive (similar to an antipassive), or sometimes with unergative verbs as well as ergative verbs in transitive sentences for emphasis, since intransitive sentences can not take a proper agent trigger, since triggers in general can only be used in transitive sentences, this includes aside from the agent trigger also the reciprocal, reflexive and causative trigger. Though instrumental and locative trigger-suffixes can be used and make an intransitive sentence have an implied impersonal subject:

Mihinidohen mihinon. The bed is where you sleep/one sleeps.
sleep-LOCV bed

Joohen maja. The eye/Eyes is/are with what you see/one sees.
see-LOCV eye
Gerund
Spoiler:
A gerund form exists, formed via suffixing -hi, and used to create nominalized subclauses, for example relative clauses. (See syntax article for details)
Suffixation
Spoiler:
If multiple suffixes would have to be added, for example mood and trigger or trigger and negation, only one of them is attached to the verb, with the other ones forming a particle. An exception is the gerund suffix, which never becomes a particle, but gets added after a mood if one is marked on the verb, and the imperative, where the negation suffix can still be added, since it uses a (reduplication) prefix rather than a suffix.

Which one is added to the verb is decided based on their position in this order: Mood < Gerund suffix < Trigger < Negation, meaning that if a mood morpheme is present, it will be the one added to the verb, with the other one or two forming a particle.
If only the trigger and the negation are present, the trigger will be attached and the negation become a particle directly after the verb.
Last edited by jute on Sat 23 Jan 2016, 17:01, edited 5 times in total.
Jutean: Hawaiian phonology meets Tagalog, with English ergativity and Mandarin tenselessness added.
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 17:28

Nouns

All nouns have a gender and usually decline for three cases, with some exceptions.

Examples of the three genders/noun classes:

Image

Gender is mostly predictable if you either know the meaning of a word or the spelling of it, however not all words ending in -i are of the "abstract" gender, nor are all nouns of that gender ending in -i, and the same is true for the other two classes.

Image

If the declined word has more than five syllables because of the case ending, the ending becomes a particle directly following the noun, 'iti' for the indirect case and 'ede' for the oblique case.

The direct case more or less equals the absolutive or nominative (depending on the trigger used), where as indirect and oblique roughly correspond with the direct and indirect object respectively, however they can also have other functions. Most notably, words answering the question "where to?" need the indirect case, whereas the oblique one is used for inalienable possession, relationship or authorship.

Adjectives (or lack thereof)

These don't have a distinct morphology and are seen as nouns, or adjectival nouns. The only difference is that most don't decline, like for example haad "bigness", or hohi "newness".
To intensify them, a haada "of biggerness", is used, so hohi a haada would translate to "very new" (literally "newness of biggerness"). An exception would be "very big", where just haada would be used.

Comparative of a adjectival noun is formed by adding a haada "of biggerness", and either hehe "still, even" to the end of the sentence, or adding a construction with ilehe "unlike, than", like for example: No ta a nihaa a haada ilehe na "I am older than you" (literally "I am of oldness of biggerness than you")

The superlative is constructed with a haadat "of biggestness" after it, as in Nuno ta an mihonode a nihaa a haadat. "I live in the oldest house" ("I live in the house of oldness of biggestness")
Jutean: Hawaiian phonology meets Tagalog, with English ergativity and Mandarin tenselessness added.
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 21:12

Pronouns

As already mentioned in a thread asking about personal pronouns:

There are altogether 19 personal pronouns, and different ones based on person, number, clusitivity, animacy, and noun class, but human (biological) genders are not distinguished.

Image

For the indirect case, the particle he is put in front of the pronoun, for the oblique case the circumferential particle me ... ma is used.

Possessive pronouns / possession

There aren't any possessive pronouns. a + personal pronoun in the oblique case are used for inalienable possession, relationship or authorship.

Vunam a he laf ha "Their parent" ("Parent of them")
Hotif a he ta ha "My book" [a book that I wrote] ("Book of me")
Ova a vuhatatede "The top of the mountain" ("Top of mountain")

For alienable possession, a relative nominalization is used, so vailita a vohi a me ha ma "vehicle that I use" (literally "vehicle of using of me").

Demonstrative pronouns

These are distinguished by gender/noun class and distance (proximal, medial and distal).

Image

Will add the impersonal pronouns and the other ones still missing later.
Jutean: Hawaiian phonology meets Tagalog, with English ergativity and Mandarin tenselessness added.
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Thu 14 Jan 2016, 03:46

A sample translation, the fable of the North Wind and the Sun:
The North Wind and the Sun were disputing which was the stronger, when a traveler came along wrapped in a warm cloak.
They agreed that the one who first succeeded in making the traveler take his cloak off should be considered stronger than the other.
Then the North Wind blew as hard as he could, but the more he blew the more closely did the traveler fold his cloak around him;
and at last the North Wind gave up the attempt. Then the Sun shined out warmly, and immediately the traveler took off his cloak.
And so the North Wind was obliged to confess that the Sun was the stronger of the two.
Doone saihasahut huusaa a dolenede u vuha a lumode a me laf ma dote, deo moletafohe ude ejotamatade haad.
Dekiodo laf a nuheohi ilejotohi vo moletafohe iti. Lomoho ja ji, joot no ja ehe nohi a lumo a haada hehe.
Huuso huusaa a dolenede haadat doone, ehe haad, ehe eeo la. Moji homanovo la moletafohe iti ejotamatade haad netie,
u ilvutiovo ji he la. Todehentomo vuha he, u vuho a vanifi. Ilejotovo ji moletafohe iti vue.
Ji ehe, teo dekiodo huusaa a dolenede a nohi a vuhade a lumo a haada.
Gloss:
When reason-RECP wind of north-OBL and sun of strength of OBL 3P OBL, pass traveller with clothing-OBL much.
Agree 3P of try-GER take_off-GER CAUS traveller-IDR. Accomplish who/that-C that-ABST, see-SUBJ PV who/that-C as be-GER of strength of biggerness still.
Blow wind of north-OBL very_very_much then, as much, as be_able 3S. But hold_on_to-CAUS 3S traveller IDR clothing-OBL more only,
and stop-CAUS this.ABST IDR 3S. Follow-AV sun now, and shine 3S of warmth. Take_off-CAUS this.ABST traveller IDR immediately.
This.ABST like, need agree/concede wind of north-OBL of/about be-GER of sun-OBL of strength of biggerness.
UDHR Art. 1:
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Vuno sauma a af ude foide u neho fal in nukanide u hokonide. Eeo saihasao fal u nuluhof hut fal.
Gloss:
Be_born humans of all.C with freedom-OBL and be_equal 3-COL in.ABST dignity-OBL and right-OBL. Able_to reason 3.COL and treat_well_like_siblings-HORT RECP_trigger 3.COL.
The Tower of Babel:
Spoiler:
Now all the earth continued to be of one language and of one vocabulary. As they travelled eastward, they discovered a valley plain in the land of Shinar, and they began dwelling there. Then they said to one another: "Come! Let us make bricks and bake them with fire." So they used bricks instead of stone, and bitumen as mortar. They now said: "Come! Let us build a city for ourselves and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a celebrated name for ourselves, so that we will not be scattered over the entire face of the earth."

Then Yahweh went down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men had built. Yahweh then said: "Look! They are one people with one language, and this is what they have started to do. Now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be impossible for them. Come! Let us go down there and confuse their language in order that they may not understand one another's language." So Yahweh scattered them from there over the entire face of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city. That is why it was named Babel, because there Yahweh confused the language of all the earth, and Yahweh scattered them from there over the entire face of the earth.
Homo no efi a savanhude a tahivide a iki u a tahivafede a iki he. Doone letafo fal li vunuhide dote, edohio fal kelamati a daaviade an vunamanade a Shinarde, u vuno nuno jaman.
Todehentohi a ji, memohut fal ji: "Atoato! Vunofe lotekeeati u honvanofe he efi ude vanade." Li vo fal lotekeeati ehe vuhata, u tahadovade a jehiluhide ehe va a haadefade a vuhatade. Memo fal ji he: "Atoato, haadofe fa noniti a haad, u doviti a vuhatade a nohi ude ovade an saanuhide. Vunofe fa sinati a ukainide nuhe he fa, ivusaie ilikiol fa afenav a efi a savanhude."

Moji ato Vunam tuuve, hokedo joi a noneti a haad u doviti a vuhatade a haadohi a nuinade a sainide lomohe.
U tahiviomo Vunam: "Ehe vunojomo vuhi, no fal saini iki u vo af a me fal ma tahivi a iki, u vuno amo fal ji; eeo ilvutio kiovihel saimiti a amohi a me fal ma he.
Atoato! Tode fanal tuuve u vunode ilikiti in tahivide a me fal ma, ivusaie eeol dekihut fal."
U ji ehe, ilikio Vunam he fal afenav a efi a savanhude, u ilvuno fal haaditi a nonede a haad.
Ivusaie no sina a me aha ma Dadel, nuhe vuno Vunam ilikiti in tahivide a efi a savanhude ado anede a jam; u ilikio Vunam he fal a fenav a efi a savanhude.
Gloss:
Continue-AV be all of Earth-OBL of language-OBL of one and of vocabulary.OBL of one now. When travel 3.COL towards dawn-OBL once, discover 3.COL plain.IDR of valley-OBL in.C (home)lands of Shinar-OBL, and began dwell there-C.
Follow-GER of this.ABST, say-reciprocal-trigger 3.COL this.ABST: "IMP-Come! Make-HORT brick-IDR and bake-HORT IDR they-INAN-C-PL with fire-OBL." So use 3.COL brick-IDR as stone-OBL, and resin.OBL of blackness-OBL as material of building-OBL of stone.And say 3.COL this.ABST now: "IMP-come, build-HORT 1P.INCL settlement-IDR of bigness, and tower-IDR of stone-OBL of be-GER with top-OBL in.C heaven-OBL. Make-HORT 1P.INCL name-IDR of honor-OBL for-BEN IDR 1P-INCL, therefore scatter-NEG 1P.INCL everywhere of everything-ABST of earth-OBL"

Soon come God down, for see-GER of dwelling-IDR of bigness and tower-IDR of stone-OBL of build-GER of child-OBL of person-OBL already.
And speak-AV God: "As show-AV light, be 3.COL nation one and use all.C of OBL 3.COL OBL language of one, and start do 3.COL this.ABST; be_able stop nothing-ABST will.IDR of do.GER of OBL 3.COL OBL now.
IMP-Come! Go-HORT 1P-EXCL-SG down and make-HORT confusion-IDR in.ABST language-OBL of OBL 3 COL OBL, therefore be-able-NEG understand-RECP-trigger 3.COL."
And this.ABST like, scatter God IDR 3.COL everywhere of everything-ABST of earth-OBL, and stop 3.COL building-IDR of settlement-IDR of bigness.
Therefore be name of OBL it.INAN.C OBL Dadel, for make God confusion-IDR in language-OBL of all.ABST of world-OBL at place.OBL of this.C; and scatter God IDR 3.COL everywhere of everything-ABST of earth.
Last edited by jute on Sat 20 Feb 2016, 18:09, edited 4 times in total.
Jutean: Hawaiian phonology meets Tagalog, with English ergativity and Mandarin tenselessness added.
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Re: Jutean

Post by Omzinesý » Thu 14 Jan 2016, 05:39

I like the lang. It's morphologically simple and elegant. It doesn't have too much, everything has a purpose.

What does the causative trigger mean?
Does it code the causer as the topic? What if you want to make a causative (add a causer) but code say the causee as the topic?
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Thu 14 Jan 2016, 19:19

Thank you for the answer and the nice words.

The causative trigger indeed lays the focus on the causator, as you can also see in this example:

Vuovo na he ta eteve hen dote.
Run.CAUS 2S IDR 1S away_from here earlier
"You made me run away from here"

If you want to focus on the person, being or object being caused to do something instead, you have to use the patient trigger first, and since you can only have one trigger at a time, use a different construction with "to lead", equivalent to "to make so. do sth." in English:

Noitono vuo ta he na
Lead.PV run 1S IDR 2S
"I was made run by you"

(PV = Passive trigger)
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Thu 14 Jan 2016, 23:28

Update: Revising the verbs section and translations since I noticed that how the language actually behaves is not how it's claimed to behave in the first post and the verb post. Sorry for any confusion caused, and please stand by until the process is completed. Thank you.

Will also add some example sentences to the aspect and trigger sections as soon as possible, and list the aspect markers.

Thank you, Omzinesý, your question made me realize this giant discrepancy between recorded grammar and actual use.

Edit: Translations and verb sections have been updated, but they might still be changed at some point again.
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Fri 15 Jan 2016, 19:49

Syntax

Main clauses

The predominant word order in Jute is VSO in main clauses. Adverbs come last, with locations preceding time adverbs. Auxiliary verbs precede the other verb directly. Subclauses are usually nominalized, especially relative ones.

The complete order would be:

1. Conjunction (if two main clauses are connected)

2. Auxiliary verb

3. Auxiliary verb particle

4. Verb

5. Verb particle

6. Subject (Noun/pronoun in direct case)

7. Direct object (takes the indirect case)

8. Oblique/indirect object (takes the oblique case)

9. Adverbs (manner - place - time)

10. Question particle (separated by comma)

However, if the oblique object is animate, and the direct object is inanimate, sometimes the oblique object can come before the direct object.

Subclauses

Subclauses are usually avoided, often by turning them into main clauses, where possible. These are linked with a conjunction, (most of the time "u", "and").

In other case, when a subclause is needed, a nominalization is used, as is the case with, for example, relative clauses.

Multiple subclauses in a single sentence are almost always avoided, since they can easily become confusing for the listener or let the speaker "trip" over their own words and cause you to lose your train of thought. This still applies, albeit less so, for written language.

Word order in nominalized subclauses is still VSO and otherwise unchanged as well, though there is no need to always have a distinct subject, as subclauses can refer back to the subject of the main clause. They are usually introduced by "a", "of, from, by, about", followed by the gerundive form of the verb.
Jutean: Hawaiian phonology meets Tagalog, with English ergativity and Mandarin tenselessness added.
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Sat 23 Jan 2016, 16:41

Revised the verb section and added a new section on transitivity, and also changed the phonology a bit, /a/ is now /ɐ/, and /a:/ is usually /ɐ:/. Also fixed the syllable structure.
In intransitive sentences the meaning is by default understood as patientive. The patient trigger -no is used in transitive sentences to express this, since the agent-trigger is default and unmarked.
An agentive trigger/suffix -mo still exists, is only used in intransitive sentences with ergative verbs to turn it agentive (similar to an antipassive), or sometimes with unergative verbs as well as ergative verbs in transitive sentences for emphasis, since intransitive sentences can not take a proper agent trigger, since triggers in general can only be used in transitive sentences, this includes aside from the agent trigger also the reciprocal, reflexive and causative trigger. Though instrumental and locative trigger-suffixes can be used and make an intransitive sentence have an implied impersonal subject:

Mihinidohen mihinon. The bed is where you sleep/one sleeps.
sleep-LOCV bed

Joohen maja. The eye/Eyes is/are with what you see/one sees.
see-LOCV eye
Anyone know a naturally evolved language with similar impersonal constructions?
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Re: Jutean

Post by eldin raigmore » Fri 12 Feb 2016, 17:47

Turkish and some other languages (Hindi?) allow double passivization and/or passivization of intransitives. The results are impersonal clauses and impersonal verbs, that have no participants. Is that what you meant?
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Sun 14 Feb 2016, 17:16

That sounds similar, yes. Thanks for the reply!

(Any comments or suggestions on the rest? :P I'm trying to improve the language as much as I can, and so I'd value any kind of feedback)
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Re: Jutean

Post by eldin raigmore » Mon 15 Feb 2016, 04:50

I seem to recall reading once of some (European, I think?) natlang in which passivizing an intransitive was allowed and usually had a location or purpose meaning.
So "dance-PASSIV" meant, usually, "dancing took place here", or sometimes "this is the place for dancing".
Is that also what you meant?
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Mon 15 Feb 2016, 14:23

eldin raigmore wrote:I seem to recall reading once of some (European, I think?) natlang in which passivizing an intransitive was allowed and usually had a location or purpose meaning.
So "dance-PASSIV" meant, usually, "dancing took place here", or sometimes "this is the place for dancing".
Is that also what you meant?
Yeah, something like that. Since I didn't look for existing features to add, but rather for the name of a feature I came up 'on my own' it's hard to say exactly, but it sure sounds similar, though, Jutean has no distinct marked passive form.
The default form of most intransitive verbs is patientive, though, as you can see in this sample translation and this article talking about the morphology of verbs.
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Thu 17 Mar 2016, 21:14

So I've been meaning to post more stuff here, but there has been no major changes or additions lately, and having now gone over most of the important things. I could talk about some minor aspects and quirks, though I'm unsure which.

One thing in Jutean that is funnily ambiguous is how relative sentences often can't distinguish between agent or patient neither syntactically nor through morphology, so context and to an lesser extent paralinguistics are essential here.

As mentioned before, relative clauses like all subclauses use nominalization, done by turning the verb of the relative clause into a gerundive by adding -hi to the end and preceding it with a, meaning 'of, about, by' in this context. (Due to this, a is the most common word in Jutean, with statistically every eight word being a, since it is also used to denote adjectival nouns, as mentioned before: vuu – quickness, a vuu – quick or literally "of quickness")

No saini a joohi a me ta ma
Be person of see-GER of OBL 1S OBL
literally "They are the person of the seeing of me".

While this would usually be understood as "They are the person that I saw", it could also mean "They are the person that saw me", so in some cases you'd need to elaborate or add something to understand. Of course, this is only the case with ergative verbs, or verbs that don't take another preposition.

No saini a fuumohi li he ta / No saini a fuumohi li me ta ma (Both are equally correct, some dialects might favor one over the other one)
Be person of read-GER to IDR 1S / Be person of read-GER to OBL 1S OBL
literally "They are the person of reading to me"

This unambiguously means "They are the person that read to me". Compare this to:

No saini a fuumohi a me ta ma
Be person of read-GER of OBL 1S OBL
literally "They are the person of the reading of me"

This means "They are the person I read about". Equally unambiguous are unergative verbs:

No mihinon a ja a mihinidohi a me ta ma
Be bed of this.C sleep-GER of OBL 1S OBL (C. = Common gender)
literally "This bed is of sleeping of me"

Since "This is the bed that sleeps me" is nonsensical, this can only mean "This is the bed that I sleep (in)"

___

Comments or suggestions for more things I should talk about are welcome!
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Thu 17 Mar 2016, 21:25

Also updated the phonology part, including a new allophone, more details on syllable structure and stress information and made it way easier to read by actually providing some real tables this time rather than the barely legible mess that was there before.
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Thu 17 Mar 2016, 21:38

Forgot about the script I have now for Jutean. There's both a printing script, traditionally carved on wood or stones, and a cursive script based on it for writing on paper or similar mediums. The former is made by me with only subconscious inspirations, whereas the cursive script was a great, even though unsolicited gift made by the CWS user Vise for me. [:D]

The printing script
Spoiler:
Image
The cursive script
Spoiler:
Image
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Re: Jutean

Post by Khemehekis » Thu 31 Mar 2016, 07:04

jute wrote: Comments or suggestions for more things I should talk about are welcome!
You can check out my Kankonian grammar at http://khemehekis.angelfire.com/basic.htm

It comes out to 128 pages in a Corel WordPerfect document and could give you some ideas on things to cover.
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Re: Jutean

Post by jute » Sat 02 Apr 2016, 20:06

Thanks! Any more comments/suggestions on what I already have posted? [:)]
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Re: Jutean

Post by Iyionaku » Mon 25 Apr 2016, 22:55

Khemehekis wrote:
jute wrote: Comments or suggestions for more things I should talk about are welcome!
You can check out my Kankonian grammar at http://khemehekis.angelfire.com/basic.htm

It comes out to 128 pages in a Corel WordPerfect document and could give you some ideas on things to cover.
This might help me too thank you.

Jute, I will read your posts bottom-up so maybe I will withspeak myself [:D]

I have to admit that I dislike your printing writing system, because it seems pretty confusing. I doubt this is much better with the cursive one; however, I love its looks, especially the one for "ca" (assuming that the symbols are in the same order).

I can't stand [o]: The lack of it is a huge (subjective) asset of Jutean [:D]

I think I have missed it; but to the 3rd person inanimate pronouns correspond to the demonstrative pronouns? (so are devided into common, abstract/immaterial and wilderness)? By the way, could you please provide a list of nouns which would fit into those categories?

And what is the origin of the common class? There must have been some trigger that caused Proto-Juteans to say: "Hey, from now on we make a new noun class that covers everything we made on our own". (Speaking horribly amateurishly).

Overall, I really like the language in it's sound (although I don't really understand all of the syntax). What was the intention behind the creation? How did you come to austronesian languages?
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