Collabromlang

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Ælfwine
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Ælfwine »

The shift ps > f makes sense as we already have the reverse, sp > f. In a similar manner to ps > f, perhaps we can have ks (writ <x>) become /x/? Or ts (writ <z>) become /θ/? This would be most logical. And it could also give us graphemes for /x/ and /θ/ as <x> and <z> respectively. It is a bit odd that ps would become a geminated /fː/ though when the only other geminate we have is /ʃː/ from /sʃ/ (and we already have intervocalic, non-geminated fricatives from /sp ts ks/ > /f θ x/, although they might have been geminated before?)

Edit: Thinking about it, why don't we just have a second reduction of geminated consonants? So /ps sʃ ks/ > /fː ʃː xː/ > /f ʃ x/.

Edit 2: I forgot we already had the change /ks/ > /x/ V_V /k/ _# and /s/ everywhere else. Derp. What about /ts/?

So far the language has been quite phonologically progressive, at least as much as French. It is only year 1,000 and the language hardly resembles its parent. Perhaps this is to be expected of an indo-european language put deep within the African jungles.
Last edited by Ælfwine on 14 Mar 2017 03:47, edited 4 times in total.
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Esneirra973
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Esneirra973 »

I agree. That is logical reasoning.
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by qwed117 »

Hmm, as it stands, the current sound changes appear to be minimally changed since viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5564&start=340#p242741
Optimally, these should be changed to record the accurate consensus. Honestly, though, the backlog might be as far back as question 30-ish. I'm honestly unsure of how far back it goes. I know I have tomorrow off, so I'd rather that we postpone any change in power for another 10 days, so that I can adjust rules and such. The only language that I really have any proficiency in is Spanish; Sardinian is more of side-hobby than anything else. I'd prefer that the person that succeeds me has barest proficiency in at least two separate branches of Romance. (Also a highly tonal language; but that's asking for waaaay too much). I'm not trying to make barriers here; just qualifications.
Ælfwine wrote:The shift ps > f makes sense as we already have the reverse, sp > f. In a similar manner to ps > f, perhaps we can have ks (writ <x>) become /x/? Or ts (writ <z>) become /θ/? This would be most logical. And it could also give us graphemes for /x/ and /θ/ as <x> and <z> respectively.

So far the language has been quite phonologically progressive, at least as much as French. It is only year 1,000 and the language hardly resembles its parent. Perhaps this is to be expected of an indo-european language put deep within the African jungles.
I'll put that in questions, but I'd like to stop all phonology questions at Q 100, unless it's just problems created by cleaning up. We really need to clean up the grammar; and honestly, that's where all the fun starts up. All of the Romance languages have extremely varying grammars especially considering how much different they are from each other. And I've been researching more and more on Romance languages; so this will be more error-filled than before (don't ask how that works; it's like bad = error-filled, mediocre = spotless, godly=horrendously error-filled) [:P]

I've noticed that the language is quite different from its progenitor. It does seem though that the largest affectation from this was really the vowel system changing drastically. This only begat more change in the consonants. It's more progressive than French; in fact, I'd say we've (vocalically only!) have become more divergent than between Greek and Latin, or really any of the "old PIElangs" (maybe excluding Tocharian and Anatolia?). But consonantally we are about as divergent as French.
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Ælfwine »

qwed117 wrote:Hmm, as it stands, the current sound changes appear to be minimally changed since viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5564&start=340#p242741
Optimally, these should be changed to record the accurate consensus. Honestly, though, the backlog might be as far back as question 30-ish. I'm honestly unsure of how far back it goes. I know I have tomorrow off, so I'd rather that we postpone any change in power for another 10 days, so that I can adjust rules and such. The only language that I really have any proficiency in is Spanish; Sardinian is more of side-hobby than anything else. I'd prefer that the person that succeeds me has barest proficiency in at least two separate branches of Romance. (Also a highly tonal language; but that's asking for waaaay too much). I'm not trying to make barriers here; just qualifications.
Ælfwine wrote:The shift ps > f makes sense as we already have the reverse, sp > f. In a similar manner to ps > f, perhaps we can have ks (writ <x>) become /x/? Or ts (writ <z>) become /θ/? This would be most logical. And it could also give us graphemes for /x/ and /θ/ as <x> and <z> respectively.

So far the language has been quite phonologically progressive, at least as much as French. It is only year 1,000 and the language hardly resembles its parent. Perhaps this is to be expected of an indo-european language put deep within the African jungles.
I'll put that in questions, but I'd like to stop all phonology questions at Q 100, unless it's just problems created by cleaning up. We really need to clean up the grammar; and honestly, that's where all the fun starts up. All of the Romance languages have extremely varying grammars especially considering how much different they are from each other. And I've been researching more and more on Romance languages; so this will be more error-filled than before (don't ask how that works; it's like bad = error-filled, mediocre = spotless, godly=horrendously error-filled) [:P]

I've noticed that the language is quite different from its progenitor. It does seem though that the largest affectation from this was really the vowel system changing drastically. This only begat more change in the consonants. It's more progressive than French; in fact, I'd say we've (vocalically only!) have become more divergent than between Greek and Latin, or really any of the "old PIElangs" (maybe excluding Tocharian and Anatolia?). But consonantally we are about as divergent as French.
Perhaps we should divvy up the current sound changes within a 2,000 year period? You might have to adjust the "story" behind the conlang a bit though in order for this to work. Otherwise, bar some simplifications, I think we can make a cut here for the phonology and turn to grammar.

Also, I've been working on a few ideas for the orthography for the collabromlang. Before going on to grammar, perhaps we could suggest and vote on a selection of orthographies? Also, it would be a good idea to make a chart of phonemes too.
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Esneirra973 »

I found a reddit user (/u/cavaliers327) willing to take up the position of new head. You guys can discuss the matter with him if you like. Here is his reply to my comment if you would like to see.

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Re: Collabromlang

Post by alynnidalar »

I know I don't participate in this thread much, but wouldn't it be preferable for the lead person to already be a CBB member? That just seems to make more sense.
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Esneirra973 »

Now that you mention it, that makes more sense.
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Cavaliers327 »

alynnidalar wrote: but wouldn't it be preferable for the lead person to already be a CBB member? .
I am. So, whenever you guys want to resume with the collablang I'm ready. I can't wait to work on this with everyone. It really sounds interesting!
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Esneirra973 »

I think /u/cavaliers327 would make a great head! He seems to fit qwed117's criteria and is interested in the project.
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by qwed117 »

Just a note: I'll be trying to tally up the votes this weekend. Thank you for your coöperation. If you need to vote, you better hurry
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Zythros Jubi »

Perhaps I'll start a Collabgreeklang thread some day.
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by qwed117 »

-I'm gonna cut out the countings, but if you want to contest a vote, just say so-
85) How many recounts should occur before a question is tabled?
There will be 2 recounts before a question is tabled

86)Regressive vowel umlaut to regenerate mid-vowels
There will be no regressive umlaut/iotacization

87) Make initial nasals prenasalized stops
Initial nasals will stay as is

88) Should we begin to curb back our use of foreign words?
Loanwords are naturalized and romanicized

89) Are unmarked syllables mid-tones, transitions, or should they be subject to spreading rules?
a) Mid tones
b) Transitions
c) Spreading

90) How should nkt (or other similar) clusters be simplified?
a) Retain full cluster (sanxtu)
b) Remove medial consonant (santu)
c) Remove the final t first (sanku)
d) Remove the final t after prior simplification (sanxu)

91) Should postvocalic rhotics/laterals become semivowels?
<A future question will ask which semivowel (j w) they should become>
a) Yes
b) Just r
c) Just l
d) No

92) Should postvocalic rhotics be lost and become tonal?
a) Low/falling tone
b) High/rising tone
c) Mid/levelling tone
d) no tone

93) Should postvocalic laterals be lost and become tonal?
a) Low/falling tone
b) High/rising tone
c) Mid/levelling tone
d) no tone

As always, I'm open for your suggestions. One thing in particular I would ask for is if someone could compile a list of all the changes that have occurred over the history of the language, and divide it up into sections like verbal morphology, phonetic changes and nominal morphology etc. I know it's bookwork, but it's really helpful in decision making on what the new rounds of questions should pertain to.

Another task I need fulfilled is for someone to check that all votes have been tallied correctly, and input into the sound changes. I'd figure that someone would speak up if something like such would occur, but it would be nice if someone checked. I'd prefer that this be done first.

Lastly it would be extremely helpful if someone made tables (preferably image form) of the conjugations and declensions. Also related would be a list of loanwords and the time that they were adopted, along with any conditions that were mentioned.

Thank you for your help and continued participation,
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by shimobaatar »

89: a b c
90: b
91: a
92: d
93: d
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Artaxes »

89.a
90.b
91.c
92.b
93.d
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Egerius »

89) Are unmarked syllables mid-tones, transitions, or should they be subject to spreading rules?
a) Mid tones
b) Transitions
c) Spreading

90) How should nkt (or other similar) clusters be simplified?
b) Remove medial consonant (santu)

91) Should postvocalic rhotics/laterals become semivowels?
<A future question will ask which semivowel (j w) they should become>
c) Just l

92) Should postvocalic rhotics be lost and become tonal?
d) no tone

93) Should postvocalic laterals be lost and become tonal?
d) no tone
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Ælfwine »

89.) b
90.) c
91.) c
92.) d (let's not go overboard with tones, imo)
93.) d
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by Cavaliers327 »

89)A
90)D
91)A
92)B
93)A
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by alynnidalar »

89) b c
90) c d
91) b
92) d
93) d
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by qwed117 »

89) AB
90) BD
91) BD
92)AC
93) B when slender, D when broad.

I'm somewhat disappointed that no one has offered to do the tasks I need, nor has someone done it regardless. This summer my time will be shorter. I'm willing to do the work, I would like help though, so I can continue to juggle my schoolwork conlanging and personal life.
Also kinda surprised that there was no hand off of power. It was ripe there for the taking tbh.
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Re: Collabromlang

Post by opipik »

89) abc
90) c
91) c
92) b
93) a
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