Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

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Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by k1234567890y »

Koulesch

Koulesch is a west Germanic language, it is in theory a dialect of the High German continuum, however, as it is declared to be the official language by the Koulesch Republic(Koulesch: Koulesches Folchtuom), its speakers often see it as an independent language.

Koulesch is a V2 language, its word order is similar to that of Standard German, that is, in main clauses the finite verb in main sentences comes second, and infinite verbs come last, and in subordinate clauses, it follows an SOV order; besides, it uses prepositions.

Phonology:

Consonants:

Nasals: /m m: n n: ŋ/
Plosives: /p p: pʰ b t t: tʰ d k k: kʰ g k͡p ɡ͡b/
Fricatives: /f f: v: s s: ʃ h~x*/
Affricates: /t͡s tt͡s t͡sʰ/
sonorants: /(w)* ʋ ɾ r: l l: j/

Note:
1. [v:] is the long variant of /ʋ/
2. [r:] is the long variant of /ɾ/
3. /ŋ/ only appears in coda position
4. /h/ is pronounced as [x] in coda position, and is never pronounced as [ç]
5. /b d g/ are devoiced in coda position, and /g/ is always devoiced to [k].
6. /pʰ tʰ t͡sʰ kʰ/ might actually be the allophones of /ph th t͡sh kh/ respectively.

Vowels:

Short: /ɪ ɛ a ə ɔ ʊ/
Long: /i: e: ɛ: ɑ: o: u:/
Diphthongs: /aɪ aʊ ɛɪ/

Vowels:

Kein mann is geboren ybel
/ke:n man ɪʃ ɡ͡bo:ɾən i:bəl/
No man is born evil.

S'best is s'guotes faind
/sbɛʃt ɪʃ sgu:təs faɪnt/
The best is the enemy of the good.

Nein, ich bin nicht einsam, ich habe mich
/ne:n ɪx bɪn nɪxt e:nsɑ:m ɪx hɑ:bə mɪx/
No, I'm not lonely, I have me.

Ybelheit beginnt wenn du beginnst, leyte als dinger zu behandelen
/i:bəlhe:t bgɪnt ʋɛn dʊ bgɪnʃt lɛɪtə als dɪŋgər t͡spʰandlən/
Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things.

Du kannst nie eine spraache verstaan bis du am wenigsten zwou spraachen verstaast.
/dʊ kanʃt ni: e:nə ʃprɑ:xə fərʃtɑ:n bɪs dʊ am ʋe:nɪkʃtən t͡sʋo: ʃprɑ:xən fərʃtɑ:ʃt/
You can never understand one language until you understand at least two.

Diesz will ich nicht tuon
/di:s ʋɪl ɪx nɪxt tu:n/
I don't want to do this
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by Wario Toad 32 »

Faloch

Do könn neizht begryrfen ën Spraicho bes do begryrfen tsvee
/do kœn: naiʒt bεɣɪfεn ən spʀaixo bεs do bεɣɪfεn tsve:/
You can't grasp one language until you grasp two.

-eg or -ech
/εx/
-y
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by k1234567890y »

Wario Toad 32 wrote:Faloch

Do könn neizht begryrfen ën Spraicho bes do begryrfen tsvee
/do kœn: naiʒt bεɣɪfεn ən spʀaixo bεs do bεɣɪfεn tsve:/
You can't grasp one language until you grasp two.

-eg or -ech
/εx/
-y
ok (: nice (:
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by Wario Toad 32 »

Cool you developed Koulesch more. It seems almost the same as Western Yiddish.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by k1234567890y »

Wario Toad 32 wrote:Cool you developed Koulesch more. It seems almost the same as Western Yiddish.
ok (: different people can think differently (:
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by Nachtuil »

I like it so far. Does it have cases and gender at all?
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by k1234567890y »

Nachtuil wrote:I like it so far. Does it have cases and gender at all?
yes (: and the system is pretty similar to that of Standard German.

Koulesch has three genders, two numbers and five cases:

Gender: Masculine, Feminine, Neuter
Number: Singular, Plural
Case: Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Accusative, Instrumental

The Instrumental case only exists for neuter singular words, the use of the instrumental case is marginal and can often be replaced with the dative case.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by Wario Toad 32 »

Faloch
Est Koulesch arbeetbor?

Is Koulesch functional?
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by k1234567890y »

Wario Toad 32 wrote:Faloch
Est Koulesch arbeetbor?

Is Koulesch functional?
maybe (: I still need to add more words
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by k1234567890y »

Being a High German dialect, words in Koulesch ultimately evolved from Old High German.

Sound Changes from Old High German to Koulesch. These sound changes might be incomplete or wrong:
Spoiler:
From Old High German to Middle High German:

- the development of umlauts
- Unstressed vowels reduced to /ə/
- ia, io, ie > iə
- iu > y:
- θ > d
- C > C[-voice] / _#(final devoicing)

From Middle High German to Koulesch:

- iə, yə > i:
- uə > u:
- ɛi, œy > e:
- ɔu > o:
- e:, ø: > e:
- i: > aɪ
- y: > ɛɪ
- u: > aʊ
- ø > ɛ
- y > ɪ
- aː > o:(this sound change is sporadic, not every word with /aː/ in MHG is affected)
- ə > Ø / _#(this sound change is sporadic, not every word with final /ə/ in MHG are affected, and it is possible that this change is not phonological but morphological in nature, as the final /ə/ is frequently preserved in weak nouns and strong feminine nouns)
- ə > Ø before stressed syllables(in formal speech, /ə/ is preserved before stressed syllables, that means, gemacht("made") is pronunced as /gəmaxt/ in formal speech, and is pronunced as /gmaxt/ in colloquial speech)
- V > V: in open stressed syllables and certain monosyllabic words ending with a single consonant.
- V: > V in unstressed syllables(this change probably ceased to be productive before the monophthongization of MHG diphthohgs)
- k > x / L_(L is /r/ or /l/)(it is possible that the /k/ in Koulesch variant of Middle High German was /kx/ initially and after liquids)
- w > ʋ / #_V or V_V(this sound change does not take place in all dialects)
- w > b / L_(L is /r/ or /l/)(then the /b/ from MHG /w/ becomes a subject of final devoicing)
- pf > f
- kʷ(or kw) > k͡p
- h > 0 / V_V

The sound change ə > Ø before stressed syllables then induced the following sound changes, many words with the be- and ge- prefixes are affected by this sound change:

- ph, bh > ph > pʰ
- th, dh > th > tʰ
- kh, gh > kh > kʰ
- gb > ɡ͡b
- kf > k͡p
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by Wario Toad 32 »

Would Koulesch be a Swiss or Bavarian dialect? Cause -ig is /ɪk/ instead of /ɪç/ in central dialects and /ɪx/ in northern dialects.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by k1234567890y »

Wario Toad 32 wrote:Would Koulesch be a Swiss or Bavarian dialect? Cause -ig is /ɪk/ instead of /ɪç/ in central dialects and /ɪx/ in northern dialects.
Uncertain, maybe (:

While the consonant system is more that of Upper German, the vowel system actually is closer to Central German dialects.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by Ælfwine »

Very familiar looking to my eyes.
My Blog

A-posteriori, alternative history nerd
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by k1234567890y »

Nouns

In Koulesch, the system of nouns is pretty similar to that of Standard German.

Koulesch has three genders, two numbers and five cases:

- Gender: Masculine, Feminine, Neuter
- Number: Singular, Plural
- Case: Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Accusative, Instrumental

Besides, there are strong and weak declensions for each gender.

Below is the inflection of nouns:

Strong nouns:

Masculine:

Singular:

- Nominative: -
- Genitive: -s/-es
- Dative: -/-e
- Accusative: -

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: -/-e
- Genitive: -/-e
- Dative: -n/-en

Feminine:

Singular:

- Nominative: -
- Genitive: -/-e
- Dative: -/-e
- Accusative: -

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: -e
- Genitive: -e
- Dative: -en

Neuter:

Singular:

- Nominative/Accusative: -
- Genitive: -s/-es
- Dative/Instrumental: -/-e

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: -/-e
- Genitive: -/-e
- Dative: -n/-en

Neuter, r-plural:

Singular:

- Nominative/Accusative: -
- Genitive: -s/-es
- Dative/Instrumental: -/-e

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: -er
- Genitive: -er
- Dative: -ern

Weak nouns:

Masculine/Feminine:

Singular:

- Nominative: -e
- Genitive: -en
- Dative: -en
- Accusative: -en

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: -en
- Genitive: -en
- Dative: -en

Neuter:

Singular:

- Nominative/Accusative: -e
- Genitive: -en
- Dative: -en

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: -en
- Genitive: -en
- Dative/Instrumental: -en

--------

Example of each noun classes:

Tag("day", strong masculine):

Singular:

- Nominative: tag [tɑ:k]
- Genitive: tages [tɑ:gəs]
- Dative: tage [tɑ:gə]
- Accusative: tag [tɑ:k]

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: tage [tɑ:gə]
- Genitive: tage [tɑ:gə]
- Dative: tagen [tɑ:gən]

Kunst("art, skill", strong feminine):

Singular:

- Nominative: kunst [kʊnʃt]
- Genitive: kunste [kʊnʃtə]
- Dative: kunste [kʊnʃtə]
- Accusative: kunst [kʊnʃt]

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: kunste [kʊnʃtə]
- Genitive: kunste [kʊnʃtə]
- Dative: kunsten [kʊnʃtən]

Folch("folk", strong neuter):

Singular:

- Nominative/Accusative: folch [fɔlx]
- Genitive: folches [fɔlxəs]
- Dative/Instrumental: folche [fɔlxə]

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: folche [fɔlxə]
- Genitive: folche [fɔlxə]
- Dative: folchen [fɔlxən]

Kind("child", strong neuter, r-plural):

Singular:

- Nominative/Accusative: kind [kɪnt]
- Genitive: kindes [kɪndəs]
- Dative/Instrumental: kinde [kɪndə]

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: kinder [kɪndər]
- Genitive: kinder [kɪndər]
- Dative: kindern [kɪndərn]

Egg("egg", strong neuter, r-plural):

Singular:

- Nominative/Accusative: ei [e:]
- Genitive: eies [e:jəs]
- Dative/Instrumental: eie [e:jə]

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: eier [e:jər]
- Genitive: eier [e:jər]
- Dative: eiern [e:jərn]

Lamb("lamb", strong neuter, r-plural):

Singular:

- Nominative/Accusative: lamb [lam]~[lamp]
- Genitive: lambes [lambəs]
- Dative/Instrumental: lambe [lambər]

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: lember/læmber [lɛmbər]
- Genitive: lember/læmber [lɛmbər]
- Dative: lembern/læmbern [lɛmbərn]

Weak nouns:

Name("name", weak masculine):

Singular:

- Nominative: name [nɑ:mə]
- Genitive: namen [nɑ:mən]
- Dative: namen [nɑ:mən]
- Accusative: namen [nɑ:mən]

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: namen [nɑ:mən]
- Genitive: namen [nɑ:mən]
- Dative: namen [nɑ:mən]

Frou("woman, mistress", weak feminine):

Singular:

- Nominative: frou [fɾo:]
- Genitive: frouen [fɾo:wən]
- Dative: frouen [fɾo:wən]
- Accusative: frouen [fɾo:wən]

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: frouen [fɾo:wən]
- Genitive: frouen [fɾo:wən]
- Dative: frouen [fɾo:wən]

Herze("heart", weak neuter):

Singular:

- Nominative/Accusative: herze [hɛrt͡sə]
- Genitive: herzen [hɛrt͡sən]
- Dative: herzen [hɛrt͡sən]

Plural:

- Nominative/Accusative: herzen [hɛrt͡sən]
- Genitive: herzen [hɛrt͡sən]
- Dative/Instrumental: herzen [hɛrt͡sən]

--------

The stem vowel of some strong nouns change in their plural forms, below is the pattern of change. All neuter nouns with r-plural endings apply this change, and the use is unpredictable for other nouns:

/a/ > /ɛ/
/ɔ/ > /ɛ/
/ʊ/ > /ɪ/
/ɑ:/ > /ɛ:/
/o:/ > /e:/
/u:/ > /i:/
/aʊ/ > /ɛɪ/

The weak declensions apply for Proper Nouns, especially personal names.

There's a tendency to generalize weak forms for all feminine nouns, the feminine strong declension might be withering in the future.
Ælfwine wrote:Very familiar looking to my eyes.
You can say I intended to do so (:
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by Wario Toad 32 »

I guess I can is Ech Kchön /εx kxœn/ in Faloch cause I'm making it more like Swiss German
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by Rosenkohl »

There's something off about the way you lay out your phonology.
length distinction in consonants
I couldn't see any long consonants in your examples. Are you talking about a veritable distinction, here, in the systematic, phonological sense? Judging by some of the other things I saw in your description of the language's phonology, you may simply be thinking of /CC/ being pronounced as [C:]..?
k͡p ɡ͡b
How are these separate phonemes, as opposed to just the surface realisation of clusters? The one instance I saw of it really makes me suspect that's the case.
/v:/ ... [v:] is the long variant of /ʋ/
For simplicity's sake, I would suggest saying you have /v v:/ (or /ʋ ʋ:/). It's a matter of analysis, of course, but the system is unbalanced otherwise. You seem to confuse /phonemes/ and [phones]..?
[r:] is the long variant of /ɾ/
No [r]? I find it hard to believe that what you call /r:/ wouldn't simply be [r] (cf. the /r r:/ (or /ɾ r/) pair in Spanish). Remember length distinctions are relative. If you have a binary length distinction and the short one is the alveolar flap...
/g/ is always devoiced to [k]
(Emphasis mine) Then do you have a /g/ phoneme? I mean, if "g > k / #", don't you really just have <g> for /k/? Is there anything else in your phonology that would justify keeping /g/ separate from /k/? Some sort of cheshirisation? Maybe even some morphophonology to cling to? (But then I saw your post about nouns and you have [g] there, so I'm not sure why you singled out /g/ in that line.)
/pʰ tʰ t͡sʰ kʰ/ might actually be the allophones of /ph th t͡sh kh/
Do you mean that the clusters /ph th t͡sh kh/ may be realised as [pʰ tʰ t͡sʰ kʰ]? (note the brackets...)

--------

I would like to echo the criticism that it's perhaps a bit too familiar, but if you like the feel of it, and if that's what you're aiming at, then go for it! :) However, I would strongly recommend trying to rethink how you structure your phonology. Try to nail down the distinction between phonemes and phones.

Since you're doing a real-world a posteriori language for a real-world language family, it also wouldn't hurt working out the diachronic details of how sounds got to where they are?

(I don't mean to be harsh, I'm just a fellow Germlanger who sees a few issues and would like to help. :)
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by k1234567890y »

Rosenkohl wrote: I couldn't see any long consonants in your examples. Are you talking about a veritable distinction, here, in the systematic, phonological sense? Judging by some of the other things I saw in your description of the language's phonology, you may simply be thinking of /CC/ being pronounced as [C:]..?
ok...
Rosenkohl wrote: No [r]? I find it hard to believe that what you call /r:/ wouldn't simply be [r] (cf. the /r r:/ (or /ɾ r/) pair in Spanish). Remember length distinctions are relative. If you have a binary length distinction and the short one is the alveolar flap...
ok (:
Rosenkohl wrote: may be realised as [pʰ tʰ t͡sʰ kʰ]? (note the brackets...)
yes (:
Rosenkohl wrote:
/v:/ ... [v:] is the long variant of /ʋ/
For simplicity's sake, I would suggest saying you have /v v:/ (or /ʋ ʋ:/). It's a matter of analysis, of course, but the system is unbalanced otherwise. You seem to confuse /phonemes/ and [phones]..?
ok...
Rosenkohl wrote:
I would like to echo the criticism that it's perhaps a bit too familiar, but if you like the feel of it, and if that's what you're aiming at, then go for it! :) However, I would strongly recommend trying to rethink how you structure your phonology. Try to nail down the distinction between phonemes and phones.
ok...

and for the familiar thing, if it did not look familiar, it would not be a High German dialect, you can just say that's my intention.
Rosenkohl wrote: (I don't mean to be harsh, I'm just a fellow Germlanger who sees a few issues and would like to help. :)
ok...
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by imperialismus »

Rosenkohl wrote:
(I don't mean to be harsh, I'm just a fellow Germlanger who sees a few issues and would like to help. :)
Germlanger sounds like you're making languages for bacteria. Now that would be something other than the usual fare. I imagine lots and lots of chemical formulae.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by Rosenkohl »

imperialismus wrote:
Rosenkohl wrote:
(I don't mean to be harsh, I'm just a fellow Germlanger who sees a few issues and would like to help. :)
Germlanger sounds like you're making languages for bacteria. Now that would be something other than the usual fare. I imagine lots and lots of chemical formulae.
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Re: Koulesch: High German dialect with an army and navy

Post by All4Ɇn »

k1234567890y wrote:sonorants: /(w)* ʋ ɾ r: l l: j/
Why is /w/ put in parenthesis and do you have any example words with it?
k1234567890y wrote:The Instrumental case only exists for neuter singular words, the use of the instrumental case is marginal and can often be replaced with the dative case.
Considering neuter nouns seem to have the same form in both the dative and instrumental case how is the instrumental case marked? Articles and adjectives I'm guessing?
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