Click wrote:Guys, the Slavic thing is confined to Languages 4 and 5. In those languages, palatalization is also regressive (consonants palatalize in front of a front vowel, not after one).
HINT
There is noin the proto-word.has it origins in an allophonic voiceless vowel that became a fricative.
Quick Diachronics Challenge
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
So here's my next guess. I hope it's not to stupid, I admit that I did not read all the comments very thoroughly.
Spoiler:
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
@sangi39:
You're overdoing the first syllable. It is often more plausible to posit conditional changes instead of making words longer than they really were.
@Creyeditor:
If I were you, I'd re-evaluate the way the languages have been grouped.
HINT
You're overdoing the first syllable. It is often more plausible to posit conditional changes instead of making words longer than they really were.
@Creyeditor:
If I were you, I'd re-evaluate the way the languages have been grouped.
HINT
There's a good reason why the second vowel's reflexes are mainly diphthongs.sangi39 wrote:The original long vowel *e: becomes a diphthong basically everywhere, varying between *ei and *ie.
Last edited by Click on 04 Sep 2017 23:51, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
@qwed117:
So close yet so far away.
@sangi39:
There was no phonemic long vowels in the proto-language.
So close yet so far away.
@sangi39:
There was no phonemic long vowels in the proto-language.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Gaaaah. You know, maybe if I think this through carefully, I should be able to get a better answer.
*i has to be the initial since it is the only yerous (I am now the Lambuzhao) morpheme with palatization.
Stress must come after that syllable since the second syllable is the best preserved with minimal intervocalic voicing, what we'd expect if this underwent a Grimm's like change.
k is the only logical next consonant, unless it's some weird uvular consonant that isn't reconstructible. And I'm certain Aero- doesn't like uvulars, like me.
After that is where it gets more confusing. We know that in 4-7 there's some palatization effect. So /i:/, /ɪ̯eː/, /ɪ̯ɐ/, and /ɪ̯ɔ/ are all from one phoneme, that is a unrounded front vowel. The breaking strongly reminds me of /ɛ/ in the Romance languages, but there is no /ɛ/ in said proto-language and the location would not be conducive to developing /ɛ/ from /e/. As a result this is probably more similar to Southern American English's breaking, meaning the phoneme could be *i. This would parsimonious with 1, 8, and 9, but not so much with 2. More likely is the fact that the breaking process had already happened in the proto-lang, giving us *ia
The next consonant was likely *t since fortition is unlikely, but lenition is, just like the real distribution.
The next vowel troubles me since it has similar results as the previous vowel in some languages, and drastically different in others. The presence of /ɑ̏ː/ strongly suggests it might have been a long i in that language family, but other cognates show a further open vowel, meaning that the vowel must be *e
*ikiate is ugly, but I think it'll do
*ikiate
*i has to be the initial since it is the only yerous (I am now the Lambuzhao) morpheme with palatization.
Stress must come after that syllable since the second syllable is the best preserved with minimal intervocalic voicing, what we'd expect if this underwent a Grimm's like change.
k is the only logical next consonant, unless it's some weird uvular consonant that isn't reconstructible. And I'm certain Aero- doesn't like uvulars, like me.
After that is where it gets more confusing. We know that in 4-7 there's some palatization effect. So /i:/, /ɪ̯eː/, /ɪ̯ɐ/, and /ɪ̯ɔ/ are all from one phoneme, that is a unrounded front vowel. The breaking strongly reminds me of /ɛ/ in the Romance languages, but there is no /ɛ/ in said proto-language and the location would not be conducive to developing /ɛ/ from /e/. As a result this is probably more similar to Southern American English's breaking, meaning the phoneme could be *i. This would parsimonious with 1, 8, and 9, but not so much with 2. More likely is the fact that the breaking process had already happened in the proto-lang, giving us *ia
The next consonant was likely *t since fortition is unlikely, but lenition is, just like the real distribution.
The next vowel troubles me since it has similar results as the previous vowel in some languages, and drastically different in others. The presence of /ɑ̏ː/ strongly suggests it might have been a long i in that language family, but other cognates show a further open vowel, meaning that the vowel must be *e
*ikiate is ugly, but I think it'll do
*ikiate
Last edited by qwed117 on 05 Sep 2017 00:31, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Qwed got it right!
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Ok so for grouping I think there's definitely 14567, 23 and 89
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I was do damn close!
The only reason I thought the middle vowel was *e was because of what I said about allophonic lengthening, which you said was correct, so I assumed the guess at it being *e~*e: was right.
The only reason I thought the middle vowel was *e was because of what I said about allophonic lengthening, which you said was correct, so I assumed the guess at it being *e~*e: was right.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
There was allophonic lengthening. However, the vowel phoneme that did lengthen was [ɪ̯a], not [e], just saying.
I'll post a family tree for the languages tomorrow. After that, it's up to qwed to make a new challenge.
I'll post a family tree for the languages tomorrow. After that, it's up to qwed to make a new challenge.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Done. If the picture does not display correctly, copy its URL and paste it in the address bar.Click wrote:I'll post a family tree for the languages tomorrow.
Edit: It was *iˈkɪ̯ate, not *aˈkɪ̯ate.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Ohhh, then I misunderstoodClick wrote:There was allophonic lengthening. However, the vowel phoneme that did lengthen was [ɪ̯a], not [e], just saying.
I'll post a family tree for the languages tomorrow. After that, it's up to qwed to make a new challenge.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Good luck
(I have 5 pre-prepared hints. Please tell me how many of them you think I should release)
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Just a quick guess:
Spoiler:
Last edited by Click on 07 Sep 2017 12:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Here's my guess at grouping and proto-word.
Spoiler:
Last edited by Creyeditor on 09 Sep 2017 16:20, edited 1 time in total.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
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"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I'm about to go to bed, so I couldn't work on this as much as I wanted, but:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Wow, the challenge led Sangi and me to very similar results
Spoiler:
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
-
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I may feel up to putting more time into it over the weekend, but it looks like */kayzen/ - */kayðen/ to me right now.
A signature.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Hints 1 and 2 below:
Hint 1:
Hint 2:
Right now someone is actually very close to getting the language right. I won't say who.
Hint 1:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler: