I just figured given how much cats like catnip they'd be bound to build up an illegal industry around itLinguistCat wrote:Also I think a possible reason for the choice of example words and possible slang brought up earlier is a slang meaning for "neko" itself. If I'm wrong, Vlürch and All4Ɇn could spritz me with water.
![[xP]](./images/smilies/icon_xp2.png "xP"){kind=icon}
To be fair, this is a plot point in that some of the cat clans are very against the use of catnip and others are either fine with use in moderation, or willing to supply it to others but don't take kindly to cats outside their clan dealing it. But I don't think they'd use human drug terms as they try to avoid dealing with human law enforcement regardless. And going around talking about what humans assume are human drugs probably wouldn't help in that goal.All4Ɇn wrote:I just figured given how much cats like catnip they'd be bound to build up an illegal industry around itLinguistCat wrote:Also I think a possible reason for the choice of example words and possible slang brought up earlier is a slang meaning for "neko" itself. If I'm wrong, Vlürch and All4Ɇn could spritz me with water.
Why not? What would stop them from using that?doomie wrote:I don't think cats would end up using 下さい kudasai outside of speech with humans, and even then...
This might be a bit Sapir-Whorf-ish, but I was thinking cats would be more inclined to use terms or phrases to "raise up" another to be polite or show respect, than to lower oneself. I'm thinking of deriving something from 願う which would actually be /negaCu/in the early variant of the language.clawgrip wrote:Why not? What would stop them from using that?LinguistCat wrote:I don't think cats would end up using 下さい kudasai outside of speech with humans, and even then...
Although in my own Japonic conlang Yabushionese, this word is not used either, because the honorific -aru verbs (irassharu, gozaru, kudasaru, nasaru, and ossharu) never evolved (it uses 呉さし kuresashi instead).
It's all relative: you can't raise your interlocutor up without implicitly lowering yourself, because when you interact with someone, you become the standard against which they are measured. 下さる kudasaru "to give" (honorific) (lit. "to lower down") equally implies that the giver is higher and the recipient is lower, just as 上げる ageru "to give; to raise" (used only in reference to the speaker or someone associated with them) implies the very same thing, but from the opposite perspective.LinguistCat wrote:This might be a bit Sapir-Whorf-ish, but I was thinking cats would be more inclined to use terms or phrases to "raise up" another to be polite or show respect, than to lower oneself. I'm thinking of deriving something from 願う which would actually be /negaCu/in the early variant of the language.clawgrip wrote:Why not? What would stop them from using that?LinguistCat wrote:I don't think cats would end up using 下さい kudasai outside of speech with humans, and even then...
Although in my own Japonic conlang Yabushionese, this word is not used either, because the honorific -aru verbs (irassharu, gozaru, kudasaru, nasaru, and ossharu) never evolved (it uses 呉さし kuresashi instead).
This is exactly how I feel about it, too.LinguistCat wrote:I suppose from my own point of view, there's a difference between recognizing someone being on a higher or lower level (literally or metaphorically) and concluding that for one individual to be higher, another must have stepped down. If for example, I were the same rank as someone else and they got a promotion, I wouldn't suddenly get a demotion. My social level stays the same except in relation to the other person.
Sure, that makes perfect sense. However:doomie wrote:If for example, I were the same rank as someone else and they got a promotion, I wouldn't suddenly get a demotion. My social level stays the same
When you are speaking directly to that person, your status in relation to that person becomes the basis for how you interact. Thus, if, they are above you metaphorically, you would be lower than them, even if you stayed at the same position....except in relation to the other person.
At first I thought your idea was that you wanted a sort of congratulatory system, where you acknowledge the greatness of a certain person while avoiding referencing the relationship between you, as this would directly imply your lower position. However, forms of address used only from superiors to subordinates would seem to suggest this is not the case. You can raise people up either as an honorific or simply as a way of being kind, so its use can be obscured, but you can't lower someone without consequence unless you are directly referencing your relationship.I'm not trying to be rid of all humble language, only conceptualize it differently. For example, I've already decided that there are specific forms of address that are only used when speaking to the clan heads, and forms only used by clan heads to subordinates.
That's fine. It's just that earlier you specifically said that cats would be less inclined to use language that lowers themselves. Here, you say that you want to have humble language, but humble language pretty much by definition means speaking in a way that lowers your own importance. having specific forms of address for superiors is honorific, not humble, while language used only towards subordinates would not be either; it would be either plain or perhaps derogatory. Unless this is all really just about specifically avoiding terms derived from ageru and kudaru/kudasaru.It just doesn't directly derive from "to raise"/"to lower". Though that was why I mentioned it might be too Sapir-Whorfian in the first place.
鳥を食べ願ひ参らす。LinguistCat wrote:...
"(Please) eat the bird."
Tori wo tabe negahi-mawirasu. /tso.ri M\o tsa.mbe ne.nga.Ci mja.M\i.ra.su/
Tori wo tabe negahu. /tso.ri M\o tsa.mbe ne.nga.Cu/
Tori wo tabe(yo). /tso.ri M\o tsa.mbe.jo/
Tori wo kuhe negahi-mawirasu. /tso.ri M\o ku.Ce ne.nga.Ci mja.M\i.ra.su/*
Tori wo kuhe negahu. /tso.ri M\o ku.Ce ne.nga.Cu/
Tori wo kuhe. /tso.ri M\o ku.Ce/
* This would not usually be used, but was included for sake of completeness. Possibly utilized by nekomata being sarcastic.
心を与へ願ひ参る。"Give me your heart."
Kokoro wo atahe-negahi-mawiru. /ko.ko.ro M\o a.ta.Ce ne.nga.Ci mja.M\i.ru/
Kokoro wo atahe-negahire. /ko.ko.ro M\o a.ta.Ce ne.nga.Ci.ru/
Kokoro wo atahure. /ko.ko.ro M\o a.ta.Cu.re/
町に参れき。"I went to town."
(Wa ga) mati ni mawireki. /M\a nga ma.tsi ni mja.M\i.re.ki/
(Wa ga) mati ni yukeki. /M\a nga ma.tsi ni ju.ke.ki/
町に御参れき。"He went to town."
(Kare ga) mati ni mi-mawireki. /ka.re nga ma.tsi ni mi mja.M\i.re.ki/**
(Kare ga) mati ni mi-yukeki. /ka.re nga ma.tsi ni mi ju.ke.ki/**
(Kare ga) mati ni mawireki. /ka.re nga ma.tsi ni mja.M\i.re.ki/
(Kare ga) mati ni yukeki. /ka.re nga ma.tsi ni ju.ke.ki/
**Mi is written with the same kanji as honorific o- can be in standard Japanese, but mi tends to be prefixed to the names of those the speaker respects or verbs relating to said individuals. It is not prefixed to one's own name or verbs relating to oneself. Why? In this case just because, cats.
I've decided, in order of most to least polite, to just go with "mawiru", "yuki-mawiru" and "yuku". Some of the pronunciation stuff will have to change because I've decided that all non-moraic nasal consonants would be palatalized. (Nya, nyu, nyo, mya, myu and myo from Classical Japanese would be [ni/mi]+[ya/yu/yo] as needed. Which was something I had already chose to do previously and don't feel like changing again.)LinguistCat wrote: ... Still not sure about mawire-mawirasu vs mawire-mawiru vs yuki-mawiru (vs just mawiru).
