Also, linguolabial nasals aren't ever distinguished, with linguolabial stops as rare as isDesEsseintes wrote:Phonemic /ɱ/ is, as far as I am aware, unattested, but phonemic /ɲ/ and /ŋ/ are both extremely common.
A good place to look for languages with many contrasting nasal stop phonemes is Australia, where a "typical" inventory will include most or all of /m n̪ n ɳ ɲ ŋ/.
Have a look at Kalkatungu for example. Enindhilyakwa (a personal fave) has the added bonus of distinguishing a labialised velar /ŋʷ/ as well.
Hope that helps.
Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread [2011–2018]
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Edit: I'm wrong, a couple languages in Ocean (more specifically Vanuatu) disprove me.
Spoiler:
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Got links for that info? I'd be very interested.qwed117 wrote:Also, linguolabial nasals aren't ever distinguished, with linguolabial stops as rare as isDesEsseintes wrote:Phonemic /ɱ/ is, as far as I am aware, unattested, but phonemic /ɲ/ and /ŋ/ are both extremely common.
A good place to look for languages with many contrasting nasal stop phonemes is Australia, where a "typical" inventory will include most or all of /m n̪ n ɳ ɲ ŋ/.
Have a look at Kalkatungu for example. Enindhilyakwa (a personal fave) has the added bonus of distinguishing a labialised velar /ŋʷ/ as well.
Hope that helps.
Edit: I'm wrong, a couple languages in Ocean (more specifically Vanuatu) disprove me.
There's also Kukuya, apparently.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
On top of that it also contains an /ŋm/ <ngm> cluster along with a /kp/ <kb> and /ŋkp/ <ngb> cluster, which given the language's intolerance for coda consonants otherwise I'd probably analyse as a labial-velar series.DesEsseintes wrote:Enindhilyakwa (a personal fave) has the added bonus of distinguishing a labialised velar /ŋʷ/ as well.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
One more question. I'm thinking about using /a e o/ as a vowel system, with /ʊ/ and /ɪ/ being variants of /o/ and /e/, but idk if they should be allophonic or as part of free variance.
They occur in Yanesha' as realizations of /o/ and /a/.
They occur in Yanesha' as realizations of /o/ and /a/.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Just some ideas:LinguoFranco wrote:One more question. I'm thinking about using /a e o/ as a vowel system, with /ʊ/ and /ɪ/ being variants of /o/ and /e/, but idk if they should be allophonic or as part of free variance.
They occur in Yanesha' as realizations of /o/ and /a/.
1. [ɪ ʊ] could be allophones of /e o/ due to prosodic conditioning, e.g. in unstressed syllables, or perhaps in pretonic syllables (i.e. in a syllable before a stressed syllable).
2. [ɪ ʊ] could be allophones of /e o/ according to syllable structure, e.g. open syllables might have [e o], while closed syllables have [ɪ ʊ].
3. [ɪ ʊ] could be allophones of /e o/ before another vowel (I think I mentioned to you before that Cheyenne takes this one step further and has /e o/ become glides [j w] before another vowel).
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
The Umarian language (Dima Umaria), a modern descentdent of Umbrian spoken on a fictional island of the coast of Montenegro, the last survivor of P-Italic:
/p b t d tɕ dʑ k g/ <п б т д ч џ к г>
/m n ɲ/ <м н њ>
/s z ɬ ɕ ʑ h/ <с з l ш ж х>
/l ʎ/ <<л љ>
/ i u e o a/ <и у е о а>
/p b t d tɕ dʑ k g/ <п б т д ч џ к г>
/m n ɲ/ <м н њ>
/s z ɬ ɕ ʑ h/ <с з l ш ж х>
/l ʎ/ <<л љ>
/ i u e o a/ <и у е о а>
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Abandoned naming language I came up with for a short story I was writing that I probably won't finish.
/ʔ h m m̊ n n̊ r r̊ l l̥ j j̊ w ʍ/ <' h m mh n nh r rh l lh y yh w wh>
/a e i o/ <a e i o>
Words:
yaena
rheoara
a'eina
reah
hael
eyha'ielah
mhae
weowa'ah
/ʔ h m m̊ n n̊ r r̊ l l̥ j j̊ w ʍ/ <' h m mh n nh r rh l lh y yh w wh>
/a e i o/ <a e i o>
Words:
yaena
rheoara
a'eina
reah
hael
eyha'ielah
mhae
weowa'ah
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Micamo, isn't that the idea you once described in the channel as a possible 'heartlang'?
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Maybe, I don't remember. Sonorant-only languages are an idea I've been fascinated with for a while though so it wouldn't surprise me if I've made something similar to this.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/p t̪ t c k ʔ/
/w ð ɾ j ɣ/
/m n̪ n ɲ ŋ/
/l/
/i e a u o/ in long and short
Syllable structure is CV(ʔ, n, l). Only the stops and nasals occur word-initially. The glides /w ð ɾ j ɣ/ are strengthened to their corresponding stop when they appear after the sonorants, while the nasal /n/ assimilates to the POA of a following consonant.
/w ð ɾ j ɣ/
/m n̪ n ɲ ŋ/
/l/
/i e a u o/ in long and short
Syllable structure is CV(ʔ, n, l). Only the stops and nasals occur word-initially. The glides /w ð ɾ j ɣ/ are strengthened to their corresponding stop when they appear after the sonorants, while the nasal /n/ assimilates to the POA of a following consonant.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Little something I've been thinking up for a couple of days:
/p t ʔ/ (P)
/b~β~m d~ɾ~n h₁~ŋ/ (B)
/s h₂/ (F)
/l j/ (R)
/i/
/(ə) o/
/ã/
Syllable structure is strictly CV
/ã/ causes preceding "B" to become nasal which in turn causes the preceding vowel to become nasalised, e.g. /tibã/ > [ˈtɕĩmã]. /ã/ also causes following "B" to become nasal, e.g. /pãdi/ > [ˈpãndʑi]. Note, however, that nasalisation of the following vowel does not occur in this instance. Similarly, "B" preceding nasalised non-/ã/ vowels do not become nasal, e.g. /doh₁ã/ > [ˈdõŋã], not [ˈnõŋã].
When non-nasal and non-initial, "B" become non-plosive, e.g. /ʔobi/ > [ˈʔoβi].
/i/ causes palatalises preceding consonants to a certain degree, but this is most noticeable for the alveolar sounds /t d~ɾ~n s l/ which are realised as [tɕ dʑ~ʑ~ndʑ ɕ ʎ] respectively.
The difference between /h₁/ and /h₂/ lies in the former being subject to nasalisation while the latter is not, with /h₁/ deriving from older *g. /h₂/ also appears in order to break up vowel clusters.
/(ə)/ is an epenthetic vowel appearing to break consonant clusters. It is typically pronounced as [a] but without causing any nasalisation, either preceding or following, although it is subject to nasalisation. When stressed it appears instead as but does not trigger preceding palatalisation.
Unstressed /o/ appears as when the following stressed syllable contains /i/ (but not /ə/ ) or when word-final. Likewise unstressed /i/ appears as [ẽ] when the following stressed syllable has /ã/, but appears as when word-final. Before an unstressed syllable /i/ and /o/ appear simply as [i~ĩ] and [o~õ] and /ə/ appears as [a~ã]
Stress is word-final. In non-compound words, "secondary" stress appears every third syllable back through a word, e.g. CV.CVˌCV.CV.CVˈCV. Syllables carrying stress further back in the word act in the same way as final stressed syllables.
/p t ʔ/ (P)
/b~β~m d~ɾ~n h₁~ŋ/ (B)
/s h₂/ (F)
/l j/ (R)
/i/
/(ə) o/
/ã/
Syllable structure is strictly CV
/ã/ causes preceding "B" to become nasal which in turn causes the preceding vowel to become nasalised, e.g. /tibã/ > [ˈtɕĩmã]. /ã/ also causes following "B" to become nasal, e.g. /pãdi/ > [ˈpãndʑi]. Note, however, that nasalisation of the following vowel does not occur in this instance. Similarly, "B" preceding nasalised non-/ã/ vowels do not become nasal, e.g. /doh₁ã/ > [ˈdõŋã], not [ˈnõŋã].
When non-nasal and non-initial, "B" become non-plosive, e.g. /ʔobi/ > [ˈʔoβi].
/i/ causes palatalises preceding consonants to a certain degree, but this is most noticeable for the alveolar sounds /t d~ɾ~n s l/ which are realised as [tɕ dʑ~ʑ~ndʑ ɕ ʎ] respectively.
The difference between /h₁/ and /h₂/ lies in the former being subject to nasalisation while the latter is not, with /h₁/ deriving from older *g. /h₂/ also appears in order to break up vowel clusters.
/(ə)/ is an epenthetic vowel appearing to break consonant clusters. It is typically pronounced as [a] but without causing any nasalisation, either preceding or following, although it is subject to nasalisation. When stressed it appears instead as but does not trigger preceding palatalisation.
Unstressed /o/ appears as when the following stressed syllable contains /i/ (but not /ə/ ) or when word-final. Likewise unstressed /i/ appears as [ẽ] when the following stressed syllable has /ã/, but appears as when word-final. Before an unstressed syllable /i/ and /o/ appear simply as [i~ĩ] and [o~õ] and /ə/ appears as [a~ã]
Stress is word-final. In non-compound words, "secondary" stress appears every third syllable back through a word, e.g. CV.CVˌCV.CV.CVˈCV. Syllables carrying stress further back in the word act in the same way as final stressed syllables.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Thinking about Greek inspired this little sketch for a Limestone rethink. Not sure yet whether I like it.
/m n/
/p t k ʔ/
/p͡s t͡s k͡s/
/t͡sx k͡x/
/t͡ɬ/
/s ɬ x/
/l j w/
/a i o/ or /a e i o/ + syllabic continuants, length and tone
Treating affricates as clusters results in the following reduced consonant inventory:
/m n/
/p t t͡s k ʔ/
/s ɬ x/
/l j w/
/m n/
/p t k ʔ/
/p͡s t͡s k͡s/
/t͡sx k͡x/
/t͡ɬ/
/s ɬ x/
/l j w/
/a i o/ or /a e i o/ + syllabic continuants, length and tone
Treating affricates as clusters results in the following reduced consonant inventory:
/m n/
/p t t͡s k ʔ/
/s ɬ x/
/l j w/
Edit: This new inventory also implies that Híí and Limestone may be more closely related than previously thought. Limestone may therefore derive from Proto-Híí rather than Proto-Plains.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Rhotic madness. Obviously, more phonemes need to be added to this, but I find this sketch thrillingly hideous.
/m n ŋ/
/mb nd ŋg/
/mbʙ ndr ŋgʀ~ɴɢʀ/
/p t k/
/pʙ̥ tr̥ kʀ̥~qʀ̥/
/r ʀ/
/r̥ ʀ̥/
A rhotic-heavy Bantulang perhaps?
/m n ŋ/
/mb nd ŋg/
/mbʙ ndr ŋgʀ~ɴɢʀ/
/p t k/
/pʙ̥ tr̥ kʀ̥~qʀ̥/
/r ʀ/
/r̥ ʀ̥/
A rhotic-heavy Bantulang perhaps?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
"Thrillingly hideous" is one way to describe it.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Do you have another way?alynnidalar wrote:"Thrillingly hideous" is one way to describe it.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Actually that looks like a natural phonology.DesEsseintes wrote:Rhotic madness. Obviously, more phonemes need to be added to this, but I find this sketch thrillingly hideous.
/m n ŋ/
/mb nd ŋg/
/mbʙ ndr ŋgʀ~ɴɢʀ/
/p t k/
/pʙ̥ tr̥ kʀ̥~qʀ̥/
/r ʀ/
/r̥ ʀ̥/
A rhotic-heavy Bantulang perhaps?
If /ŋgʀ~ɴɢʀ/ is a phoneme, I think the uvular pronunciation would be more usual.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Nah, that's pretty good. I probably would've done something alliterative ("horrifyingly hideous"? "stomach-churningly sordid"?), but "thrillingly" is a really fantastic word.DesEsseintes wrote:Do you have another way?alynnidalar wrote:"Thrillingly hideous" is one way to describe it.
I threw it into zompist's gen with /a i u/ as vowels, setting all consonants as equally probable, and came up with some real doozies:
qʀ̥aŋgʀtr̥
rupʙ̥aŋgʀŋgʀ
ŋgʀiŋgʀaau
ŋgmbandru
pʙ̥arpaatukʀ̥qʀ̥u
ɴɢʀikkʀ̥ipʙ̥ndratr̥
- Creyeditor
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I thought of a consonant inventory that only uses the following distinctive features:
/ɬ̪ ɬ ɬ̠ ɬ˞/
/θ θ̠ θ̠ʲ θ̠˞ /
/ts̪ ts cɕ tʂ/
/t̪ɬ̪ tɬ cɬ̠ ʈɬ˞ /
/t̪θ tθ̠ cθ̠ʲ ʈθ̠˞ /
/l̪ l ʎ ɭ /
/ð̞ ɹ j ɻ /
In principle none of these are specified for other featues. For [+/- voice] I just assumed that sonorants/ are inherently voiced and obstruents are inherently voiceless. For [+/-continuant] the non-strident, non-affricate, non-laterals could in principle have stop allophones in free variation. Тhe feature [+/-nasal] is also unspecified. Since there are no lateral or strident nasals, non-lateral non stridents might in principle be nasals, which also entails that they would be voiced. I really don't want nasal approximants, so I am just gonna exclude them. [+/- sonorant] in this language just follows general markedness principles. Stridents are obstruents and laterals are sonorants. Place is also unspecified. I will assume that laterals can never be [Labial]. I will also assume that [+/- strident] distinguished uvulars from velars and labials from labiodentals; the contrasts wrt to [+/- anterior] and [+/- distributed] are neutralized in non-coronal sounds.
Here is a list of allophones for each phoneme:Another feature that is actually used in this language is [+/-consonantal], because I want vowels. Vowels are distinguished by [+/-ATR] and [+/-round]. This gives us four vowel phonemes.
/i u/
/a ɔ/
Height features can freely vary in vowels, but backness is inserted by default.
/i/ [e ɘ]
/u/ [o ɵ]
/a/ [ɪ ɛ]
/ɔ/ [ʊ ɒ]
Hope you like the idea. I think I had it before, but hopefully I haven't posted it yet.
- [+/- strident]
[+/- lateral]
[+/- approximant]
[+/- delayed primary release]
[+/- anterior]
[+/- distributed]
/ɬ̪ ɬ ɬ̠ ɬ˞/
/θ θ̠ θ̠ʲ θ̠˞ /
/ts̪ ts cɕ tʂ/
/t̪ɬ̪ tɬ cɬ̠ ʈɬ˞ /
/t̪θ tθ̠ cθ̠ʲ ʈθ̠˞ /
/l̪ l ʎ ɭ /
/ð̞ ɹ j ɻ /
In principle none of these are specified for other featues. For [+/- voice] I just assumed that sonorants/ are inherently voiced and obstruents are inherently voiceless. For [+/-continuant] the non-strident, non-affricate, non-laterals could in principle have stop allophones in free variation. Тhe feature [+/-nasal] is also unspecified. Since there are no lateral or strident nasals, non-lateral non stridents might in principle be nasals, which also entails that they would be voiced. I really don't want nasal approximants, so I am just gonna exclude them. [+/- sonorant] in this language just follows general markedness principles. Stridents are obstruents and laterals are sonorants. Place is also unspecified. I will assume that laterals can never be [Labial]. I will also assume that [+/- strident] distinguished uvulars from velars and labials from labiodentals; the contrasts wrt to [+/- anterior] and [+/- distributed] are neutralized in non-coronal sounds.
Here is a list of allophones for each phoneme:
Spoiler:
/i u/
/a ɔ/
Height features can freely vary in vowels, but backness is inserted by default.
/i/ [e ɘ]
/u/ [o ɵ]
/a/ [ɪ ɛ]
/ɔ/ [ʊ ɒ]
Hope you like the idea. I think I had it before, but hopefully I haven't posted it yet.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
- Man in Space
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Surely you meant "trillingly hilarious", right?DesEsseintes wrote:Rhotic madness. Obviously, more phonemes need to be added to this, but I find this sketch thrillingly hideous.
Twin Aster megathread
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I must be blind not to have noticed that avenue of possible puns!Linguifex wrote:Surely you meant "trillingly hilarious", right?DesEsseintes wrote:Rhotic madness. Obviously, more phonemes need to be added to this, but I find this sketch thrillingly hideous.