Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread [2011–2018]
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n ŋ/<m n ng>
/p t c k q/<p t c k q>
/b d ɟ g/<b d j g>
/f s ɬ h/<f s ł h>
/l j w/<l y w>
/i i: e e: a a: o o:/<i í e é a á o ó>
I'm debating getting rid of /j/.
The acute accents on the long vowels are only used in environments where vowel length could be contrastive.
Syllable and Moraic Structure
In Hayakan, a mora is an onset and a short vowel, the second half of a long vowel, or a coda consonant. A syllable is minimally composed of two moras, though it can be more. The structure for syllables is as such:
(C)V(C1)(C2)
C1=/m n ŋ l j w/, C2=the same consonant as the following onset of the next syllable. C2 is a coda, not an onset, a fact proved by minimal pairs in vowel length, which isn't contrastive in closed syllables; thus [ni:l:o] "blackbird" vs. [nil:o] "nihilist."
Allophony
Word initial geminates are completely illegal, but exist in underlying forms. Thus /ggam/ [gam] "port" but /iŋliggam/ [iŋlig:am] "English port." This goes along with a general tendency to delete rather than to epenthesize with illegal inputs.
Because of the two-mora per syllable rule, the distinction between long and short vowels is neutralized in open syllables, as discussed above--all vowels are lengthened. Long vowels outside of this environment are vanishingly rare, but there are a handful of cases in which they are contrastive. Many speakers are beginning to realize long vowels as having high tone instead, although this is reverted to low tone before voiced obstruents. This change is associated with younger speakers of the standard dialect, so it must be addressed.
/l/ is velarized in coda position.
/o/ is [ɔ] before a coda consonant, before coda /l/, and [o] (or rather [o:]) elsewhere.
/d/ becomes [dɮ] between vowels. For some speakers it goes all the way to [l].
/ji/ is realized as [ʑi].
Voiceless stops are aspirated in when in the same syllable as an accented mora, while /ɬ/ is fortited to [tɬ].
Pitch Accent
This is my first time having pitch accent in a language, so my apologies if I screw it up.
Standard Hayakan pitch accent rises in pitch and, when non-final, is followed by a substantial downstep. This high pitch is accompanied by the changes in accented syllables referenced above. The placement of accent is predictable; it falls on the penultimate mora. The final mora, when it contains a vowel, often experiences creaky voice.
In those speakers who have developed high tone, there has evolved a genuine tonal system as pitch accent is no longer contrastive.
What do you think sirs?
/p t c k q/<p t c k q>
/b d ɟ g/<b d j g>
/f s ɬ h/<f s ł h>
/l j w/<l y w>
/i i: e e: a a: o o:/<i í e é a á o ó>
I'm debating getting rid of /j/.
The acute accents on the long vowels are only used in environments where vowel length could be contrastive.
Syllable and Moraic Structure
In Hayakan, a mora is an onset and a short vowel, the second half of a long vowel, or a coda consonant. A syllable is minimally composed of two moras, though it can be more. The structure for syllables is as such:
(C)V(C1)(C2)
C1=/m n ŋ l j w/, C2=the same consonant as the following onset of the next syllable. C2 is a coda, not an onset, a fact proved by minimal pairs in vowel length, which isn't contrastive in closed syllables; thus [ni:l:o] "blackbird" vs. [nil:o] "nihilist."
Allophony
Word initial geminates are completely illegal, but exist in underlying forms. Thus /ggam/ [gam] "port" but /iŋliggam/ [iŋlig:am] "English port." This goes along with a general tendency to delete rather than to epenthesize with illegal inputs.
Because of the two-mora per syllable rule, the distinction between long and short vowels is neutralized in open syllables, as discussed above--all vowels are lengthened. Long vowels outside of this environment are vanishingly rare, but there are a handful of cases in which they are contrastive. Many speakers are beginning to realize long vowels as having high tone instead, although this is reverted to low tone before voiced obstruents. This change is associated with younger speakers of the standard dialect, so it must be addressed.
/l/ is velarized in coda position.
/o/ is [ɔ] before a coda consonant, before coda /l/, and [o] (or rather [o:]) elsewhere.
/d/ becomes [dɮ] between vowels. For some speakers it goes all the way to [l].
/ji/ is realized as [ʑi].
Voiceless stops are aspirated in when in the same syllable as an accented mora, while /ɬ/ is fortited to [tɬ].
Pitch Accent
This is my first time having pitch accent in a language, so my apologies if I screw it up.
Standard Hayakan pitch accent rises in pitch and, when non-final, is followed by a substantial downstep. This high pitch is accompanied by the changes in accented syllables referenced above. The placement of accent is predictable; it falls on the penultimate mora. The final mora, when it contains a vowel, often experiences creaky voice.
In those speakers who have developed high tone, there has evolved a genuine tonal system as pitch accent is no longer contrastive.
What do you think sirs?
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Sorry if that came across as me being rude, that wasn't my intention; part of it is probably just me being Finnish (and another that I'm an asshole by nature), but I also have an actual reason besides that to not have even thought of that possibility: I always forget that A) phones can be used to go online and/or B) using the internet on a phone has restrictions that using a computer doesn't. The reason is as simple as me not having a smartphone or whatever, only a pretty old regular phone that I use to call people and sometimes texting, and not knowing how going online on a phone even works or what kind of restrictions there are except what I've heard from others maybe one or two times. It's not my top priority to memorise the difficulties of mobile posting, and as such blissfully forget that that's a thing to begin with.DesEsseintes wrote:Just for the record, Vlürch, the denasalisation symbol is not displaying correctly on my phone, which may have led to Omzinesy's confusion as to their use in your phonology. However, I will remember not to ask about details of your phonologies in future if you find being asked so tiresome.Vlürch wrote:No, they're denasalised, like /m/ and /n/ are word-initially in Korean. You could've just googled them and the first result would've told you that that diacritic means denasalisation, but well.qwed117 wrote:I'm gonna guess that means they're creaky voiced.Omzinesý wrote:What do m͊ and n͊ mean?Vlürch wrote: /m n ɲ ŋ m͊ n͊/ <m n ny ng ṃ ṇ>
I really don't want beefs on this forum, too, since it's the only one where the majority of users probably don't hate me yet...
/m n ɲ/
/p b t̼ d̼ t d ɖ k/
/pʰ b̪ʱ t̼ʰ ʈʰ ɖʱ cʰ kʰ ɢʱ ʔʰ/
/d̼ʷ ɖʷ kʷ qʷ/
/t͡s t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/
/t͡sʰ/
/c͡ç ɟ͡ʝ/
/q͡χʰ/
/s z ʃ ʒ/
/ʂʷ ʐʷ/
/θ ð x ʕ/
/ʀ/
/p͡ɬ t̼͡ɬ̼ t͡ɬ d͡ɮ c͡ʎ̝̊ ɟ͡ʎ̝ k͡ʟ̝̊/
/p͡ɬʰ t̼͡ɬ̼ʰ t͡ɬʰ ɡ͡ʟ̝ʱ/
/ɮ/
/w ɥ/
/tʼ ʈʼ ʡʼ/
/t͡θʼ d͡ðʼ k͡xʼ q͡χʼ/
/p͡ɬʼ t͡ɬʼ k͡ʟ̝̊ʼ/
/ɓ ɓ̪ ɗ̼ ɗ ɠ ʛ/
/ɗ͡ʒ ɠ͡ɣ ʛ̥͡ʀ̥/
/ɓ̥͡ɬ ɓ͡ɮ/
/ɑ ɛ i ɤ ɔ u/
/aː ə̹ː iː ɔː/
/ɑ̃ː ɛ̃ː ĩː ɔ̃ː ũː/
/ɑʊ̯ ɐɪ̯ æʏ̯ eɪ̯ ɞɤ̯ oʊ̯ ʉə̯ yø̯/
/ɑɪ̯̃ ɛə̯̃ oʊ̯̃/
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I think that a denasalized /m n/ would traditionally be considered /b d/ for phonic analysis and only /m͊ n͊/ for phonemic analysis. Since you've written them with <m n> here, I'd assume they haven't passed the (allo)phonic state yet. I'd personally avoid putting this (unattested) phoneme in the inventory thus.Vlürch wrote:No, they're denasalised, like /m/ and /n/ are word-initially in Korean. You could've just googled them and the first result would've told you that that diacritic means denasalisation, but well.qwed117 wrote:I'm gonna guess that means they're creaky voiced.Omzinesý wrote:What do m͊ and n͊ mean?Vlürch wrote: /m n ɲ ŋ m͊ n͊/ <m n ny ng ṃ ṇ>
Spoiler:
-
- mayan
- Posts: 2080
- Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
- Location: USA
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Does that mean that /m/ and /n/ are pronounced and [d] word-initially in Korean, or is there a difference between [m͊] and ?Vlürch wrote:No, they're denasalised, like /m/ and /n/ are word-initially in Korean. You could've just googled them and the first result would've told you that that diacritic means denasalisation, but well.qwed117 wrote:I'm gonna guess that means they're creaky voiced.Omzinesý wrote:What do m͊ and n͊ mean?Vlürch wrote: /m n ɲ ŋ m͊ n͊/ <m n ny ng ṃ ṇ>
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
GrandPiano wrote:Does that mean that /m/ and /n/ are pronounced and [d] word-initially in Korean, or is there a difference between [m͊] and ?Vlürch wrote:No, they're denasalised, like /m/ and /n/ are word-initially in Korean. You could've just googled them and the first result would've told you that that diacritic means denasalisation, but well.qwed117 wrote:I'm gonna guess that means they're creaky voiced.Omzinesý wrote:What do m͊ and n͊ mean?Vlürch wrote: /m n ɲ ŋ m͊ n͊/ <m n ny ng ṃ ṇ>
Oracle wrote:Something similar has occurred with word-initial nasals in Korean; in some contexts, /m/, /n/ are denasalized to [b, d]. This process is sometimes represented with the IPA [m͊] and [n͊], which simply places the IPA ◌͊ denasalization diacritic on [m] and [n] to show the underlying phoneme.
Spoiler:
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
qwed117 wrote:GrandPiano wrote:Does that mean that /m/ and /n/ are pronounced and [d] word-initially in Korean, or is there a difference between [m͊] and ?Vlürch wrote:No, they're denasalised, like /m/ and /n/ are word-initially in Korean. You could've just googled them and the first result would've told you that that diacritic means denasalisation, but well.qwed117 wrote:I'm gonna guess that means they're creaky voiced.Omzinesý wrote:What do m͊ and n͊ mean?Vlürch wrote: /m n ɲ ŋ m͊ n͊/ <m n ny ng ṃ ṇ>Oracle wrote:Something similar has occurred with word-initial nasals in Korean; in some contexts, /m/, /n/ are denasalized to [b, d]. This process is sometimes represented with the IPA [m͊] and [n͊], which simply places the IPA ◌͊ denasalization diacritic on [m] and [n] to show the underlying phoneme.
They actually do have a slight difference. If you want to hear it and can't put your finger on it when you listen to Korean being spoken, stick your fingers up your nostrils and say "but mum, dad needs bigger and better dogs!" or something and you should be able to tell the difference between [m͊] and [n͊] and and [d]. Obviously, Koreans don't physically block their nose every time they say a word that begins with /m/ or /n/, but air doesn't come out of the nose when they do even though it goes in, or however the actual production of nasal sounds works to begin with. It's like when you have a flu, except that it doesn't affect every sound like it would if you actually had a flu. These Glossika videos on the two sounds should be helpful: m͊m͊m͊, n͊n͊n͊
-
- mayan
- Posts: 2080
- Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
- Location: USA
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Vlürch wrote:qwed117 wrote:GrandPiano wrote:Does that mean that /m/ and /n/ are pronounced and [d] word-initially in Korean, or is there a difference between [m͊] and ?Vlürch wrote:No, they're denasalised, like /m/ and /n/ are word-initially in Korean. You could've just googled them and the first result would've told you that that diacritic means denasalisation, but well.qwed117 wrote:I'm gonna guess that means they're creaky voiced.Omzinesý wrote:What do m͊ and n͊ mean?Vlürch wrote: /m n ɲ ŋ m͊ n͊/ <m n ny ng ṃ ṇ>Oracle wrote:Something similar has occurred with word-initial nasals in Korean; in some contexts, /m/, /n/ are denasalized to [b, d]. This process is sometimes represented with the IPA [m͊] and [n͊], which simply places the IPA ◌͊ denasalization diacritic on [m] and [n] to show the underlying phoneme.
They actually do have a slight difference. If you want to hear it and can't put your finger on it when you listen to Korean being spoken, stick your fingers up your nostrils and say "but mum, dad needs bigger and better dogs!" or something and you should be able to tell the difference between [m͊] and [n͊] and and [d]. Obviously, Koreans don't physically block their nose every time they say a word that begins with /m/ or /n/, but air doesn't come out of the nose when they do even though it goes in, or however the actual production of nasal sounds works to begin with. It's like when you have a flu, except that it doesn't affect every sound like it would if you actually had a flu. These Glossika videos on the two sounds should be helpful: m͊m͊m͊, n͊n͊n͊
So, how is the air kept from coming out of the nose, then? If I understand correctly, a denasalized stop has the air entering the nasal cavity but not exiting the nose, like when you try to articulate a nasal stop while holding your nose, and unlike an oral stop where the air doesn't enter the nasal cavity at all. The difference between an oral and a nasal stop is that in an oral stop, the velum at the back of the mouth blocks the entrance to the nasal cavity, whereas in a nasal stop the velum allows air to move through the nasal cavity and out of the nose. So if in a denasalized stop the air is being let into the nasal cavity, what's keeping it from going all the way through?
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
GrandPiano wrote:Vlürch wrote:qwed117 wrote:GrandPiano wrote:Does that mean that /m/ and /n/ are pronounced and [d] word-initially in Korean, or is there a difference between [m͊] and ?Vlürch wrote:No, they're denasalised, like /m/ and /n/ are word-initially in Korean. You could've just googled them and the first result would've told you that that diacritic means denasalisation, but well.qwed117 wrote:I'm gonna guess that means they're creaky voiced.Omzinesý wrote:What do m͊ and n͊ mean?Vlürch wrote: /m n ɲ ŋ m͊ n͊/ <m n ny ng ṃ ṇ>Oracle wrote:Something similar has occurred with word-initial nasals in Korean; in some contexts, /m/, /n/ are denasalized to [b, d]. This process is sometimes represented with the IPA [m͊] and [n͊], which simply places the IPA ◌͊ denasalization diacritic on [m] and [n] to show the underlying phoneme.
They actually do have a slight difference. If you want to hear it and can't put your finger on it when you listen to Korean being spoken, stick your fingers up your nostrils and say "but mum, dad needs bigger and better dogs!" or something and you should be able to tell the difference between [m͊] and [n͊] and and [d]. Obviously, Koreans don't physically block their nose every time they say a word that begins with /m/ or /n/, but air doesn't come out of the nose when they do even though it goes in, or however the actual production of nasal sounds works to begin with. It's like when you have a flu, except that it doesn't affect every sound like it would if you actually had a flu. These Glossika videos on the two sounds should be helpful: m͊m͊m͊, n͊n͊n͊
So, how is the air kept from coming out of the nose, then? If I understand correctly, a denasalized stop has the air entering the nasal cavity but not exiting the nose, like when you try to articulate a nasal stop while holding your nose, and unlike an oral stop where the air doesn't enter the nasal cavity at all. The difference between an oral and a nasal stop is that in an oral stop, the velum at the back of the mouth blocks the entrance to the nasal cavity, whereas in a nasal stop the velum allows air to move through the nasal cavity and out of the nose. So if in a denasalized stop the air is being let into the nasal cavity, what's keeping it from going all the way through?
I have no idea so I really want to say "snot", but it's probably the nose itself restricting the airflow or something. That's what it feels like to me, anyway, but feelings often have nothing to do with reality, so...
- Frislander
- mayan
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
- Location: The North
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Time for another protolang-to-daughter derivation.
*t *k *kʷ
*ɬ *s *h
*n *ŋ *ŋʷ
*l *j *w
*i *a *u
Syllable structure is (C)V(C)(C) where any single consonant except the labiovelars may appear syllable-finally, and acceptable coda clusters consist of sonorant + obstruent bar /h/ and fricative + stop. Nasals assimilate to the POA of a following obstruent. The diphthongs /ij uw/ are not permitted. Zero-onset syllables only occur initially.
OK, now for the derivation.
The glide diphthongs *aj *aw *iw *uj simplify to /eː oː uː (ʷ)iː/, where the labial coarticulation for /ʷiː/ is only present after the plain velars..
*ŋʷ fronts to /m/.
*l becomes /w/ when it is in the coda. *n then becomes /l/ merges with oroiginal *l in onset position.
The remaining nasals denasalise into corresponding voiced stops in onset position and turn into nasalisation of the preceding vowel in the coda.
*k fronts to /t͡ʃ/.
/iw aw uw/ from original coda *l become /uː oː uː/ respectively. Coda *h is lost with lengthening of the preceding vowel if it is short. Coda stops are lost after the other fricatives, again with compensatory lengthening of a preceding short vowel.
This gives the following inventory.
/t t͡ʃ kʷ/
/b g/
/ɬ s h/
/l j w/
/i ĩ iː eː a ã aː u ũ uː oː/
Syllables structure is (C)V(C) where only /t t͡ʃ s ɬ/ may appear in the coda. Zero-onset syllables only occur initially.
Many dialects devoice /g/ to /k/ (understandably). The approximants /w l j/ are realised as [m n ɲ] before the nasal vowels.
*t *k *kʷ
*ɬ *s *h
*n *ŋ *ŋʷ
*l *j *w
*i *a *u
Syllable structure is (C)V(C)(C) where any single consonant except the labiovelars may appear syllable-finally, and acceptable coda clusters consist of sonorant + obstruent bar /h/ and fricative + stop. Nasals assimilate to the POA of a following obstruent. The diphthongs /ij uw/ are not permitted. Zero-onset syllables only occur initially.
OK, now for the derivation.
The glide diphthongs *aj *aw *iw *uj simplify to /eː oː uː (ʷ)iː/, where the labial coarticulation for /ʷiː/ is only present after the plain velars..
*ŋʷ fronts to /m/.
*l becomes /w/ when it is in the coda. *n then becomes /l/ merges with oroiginal *l in onset position.
The remaining nasals denasalise into corresponding voiced stops in onset position and turn into nasalisation of the preceding vowel in the coda.
*k fronts to /t͡ʃ/.
/iw aw uw/ from original coda *l become /uː oː uː/ respectively. Coda *h is lost with lengthening of the preceding vowel if it is short. Coda stops are lost after the other fricatives, again with compensatory lengthening of a preceding short vowel.
This gives the following inventory.
/t t͡ʃ kʷ/
/b g/
/ɬ s h/
/l j w/
/i ĩ iː eː a ã aː u ũ uː oː/
Syllables structure is (C)V(C) where only /t t͡ʃ s ɬ/ may appear in the coda. Zero-onset syllables only occur initially.
Many dialects devoice /g/ to /k/ (understandably). The approximants /w l j/ are realised as [m n ɲ] before the nasal vowels.
Last edited by Frislander on 15 May 2017 22:15, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
May I suggest a few additions?Frislander wrote:Time for another protolang-to-daughter derivation.
*t *k *kʷ
*ɬ *s *h
*n *ŋ *ŋʷ
*l *j *w
*i *a *u
Syllable structure is (C)V(C)(C) where any single consonant except the labiovelars may appear syllable-finally, and acceptable coda clusters consist of sonorant + obstruent bar /h/ and fricative + stop. Nasals assimilate to the POA of a following obstruent. The diphthongs /ij uw/ are not permitted. Zero-onset syllables only occur initially.
OK, now for the derivation.
*ŋʷ fronts to /m/.
The glide diphthongs *aj *aw *iw *uj simplify to /eː oː uː iː/.
*l becomes /w/ when it is in the coda. *n then becomes /l/ merges with oroiginal *l in onset position.
The remaining nasals denasalise into corresponding voiced stops in onset position and turn into nasalisation of the preceding vowel in the coda.
*k fronts to /t͡ʃ/.
/iw aw uw/ from original coda *l become /uː oː uː/ respectively. Coda *h is lost with lengthening of the preceding vowel if it is short. Coda stops are lost after the other fricatives, again with compensatory lengthening of a preceding short vowel.
This gives the following inventory.
/t t͡ʃ kʷ/
/b g/
/ɬ s h/
/l j w/
/i ĩ iː eː a ã aː u ũ uː oː/
Syllables structure is (C)V(C) where only /t t͡ʃ s ɬ/ may appear in the coda. Zero-onset syllables only occur initially.
Many dialects devoice /g/ to /k/ (understandably).
1. If you change the order of changes 1 and 2, you could have *uj > ʷiː after plain velars so that *kuj *ŋuj become /kʷiː biː/ rather than /t͡ʃiː ɡiː/, resulting in interesting alternations.
2. An obvious next step would be to add nasal allophony of /w l j/ > [m n ɲ] adjacent to a nasalised vowel.
Blog: audmanh.wordpress.com
Conlangs: Ronc Tyu | Buruya Nzaysa | Doayâu | Tmaśareʔ
Conlangs: Ronc Tyu | Buruya Nzaysa | Doayâu | Tmaśareʔ
- Frislander
- mayan
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
- Location: The North
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Yes! I'll do that (this was a bit of a random idea, though, I probably won't take this anywhere unless I or someone else decide to use it in a project).cedh wrote:Spoiler:
May I suggest a few additions?
1. If you change the order of changes 1 and 2, you could have *uj > ʷiː after plain velars so that *kuj *ŋuj become /kʷiː biː/ rather than /t͡ʃiː ɡiː/, resulting in interesting alternations.
2. An obvious next step would be to add nasal allophony of /w l j/ > [m n ɲ] adjacent to a nasalised vowel.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
A Typical Archipelagic Language, a large branch of Wanian:
/p b t d k g ʔ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s x h/
/l/
/j w/
/i e o ø a æ/
/æ̃ ẽ õ ø̃ ã/
/p b t d k g ʔ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s x h/
/l/
/j w/
/i e o ø a æ/
/æ̃ ẽ õ ø̃ ã/
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
-
- sinic
- Posts: 401
- Joined: 21 Jul 2012 08:01
- Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n ɲ ŋ ŋʷ/ <m n ny ng ngw>
/ᵐb ⁿd ⁿdz ᵑɡ ᵑɡʷ/ <mb nd ndz ngg nggw>
/p t ts k kʷ/ <p t ts k kw>
/s l j w h/ <s l y w h>
/a e i o u/ - though maybe with /ɛ ɔ/ or even /ɪ ʊ/ and some +/-ATR harmony
(C)V
Historically, Cw and Cj clusters were permitted, but all have become single consonants, producing various alternations. (One might consider the labiovelar series the last remaining permissible consonant clusters.) This has produced various alternations such as /t/ > /p/ or /kʷ/, and /k/ or /p/ > /ts/. Alternations between plain and prenasalized variants exist, causing fortition in the continuants, such as /s/ > /ⁿdz/, /l/ > /ⁿd/, and /h/ > /ᵑɡ/.
/ᵐb ⁿd ⁿdz ᵑɡ ᵑɡʷ/ <mb nd ndz ngg nggw>
/p t ts k kʷ/ <p t ts k kw>
/s l j w h/ <s l y w h>
/a e i o u/ - though maybe with /ɛ ɔ/ or even /ɪ ʊ/ and some +/-ATR harmony
(C)V
Historically, Cw and Cj clusters were permitted, but all have become single consonants, producing various alternations. (One might consider the labiovelar series the last remaining permissible consonant clusters.) This has produced various alternations such as /t/ > /p/ or /kʷ/, and /k/ or /p/ > /ts/. Alternations between plain and prenasalized variants exist, causing fortition in the continuants, such as /s/ > /ⁿdz/, /l/ > /ⁿd/, and /h/ > /ᵑɡ/.
- Frislander
- mayan
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
- Location: The North
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/p t t͡ʃ k q ʔ/
/χ/
/m n/
/w j/
/e a o/
/t͡ʃ/ is realised as intervocalically and before another consonant.
Syllable structure is CV(V)(C) where VV is either a long vowel or any other combination of the vowels and all consonants bar the glides may appear word-finally.
/χ/
/m n/
/w j/
/e a o/
/t͡ʃ/ is realised as
Syllable structure is CV(V)(C) where VV is either a long vowel or any other combination of the vowels and all consonants bar the glides may appear word-finally.
-
- sinic
- Posts: 401
- Joined: 21 Jul 2012 08:01
- Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n/
/p t ʈ c k q͜χ/
/f s ʃ ç x h/
/w l ɻ j ʀ/
/a i u/
/aː iː uː/
Alternations occur between non-nasal consonants with the same POA.
/k/ variously alternates with /w/, /j/, /ʀ/ and zero in place of a historical velar sonorant.
/h/ only appears in coda.
Onsets not obligatory. Rhyme can either have a long vowel or be followed by /n/ or /h/.
/n/ assimilates to the place of a following consonant.
/p t ʈ c k q͜χ/
/f s ʃ ç x h/
/w l ɻ j ʀ/
/a i u/
/aː iː uː/
Alternations occur between non-nasal consonants with the same POA.
/k/ variously alternates with /w/, /j/, /ʀ/ and zero in place of a historical velar sonorant.
/h/ only appears in coda.
Onsets not obligatory. Rhyme can either have a long vowel or be followed by /n/ or /h/.
/n/ assimilates to the place of a following consonant.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
That looks a-lot like Klingon. Maybe it's just the /q͜χ/, /ʈ/, and /x/.
Last edited by GamerGeek on 29 May 2017 07:50, edited 1 time in total.
-
- sinic
- Posts: 401
- Joined: 21 Jul 2012 08:01
- Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Hm, I suppose so. /q͜χ/ could perhaps just as well be transcribed as /q/ or /χ/ - basically I wanted to show that it had been partially fricated, but there was no contrast between /q/ or /χ/.GamerGeek wrote:That looks a-lot like Klingon Maybe it's just the /q͜χ/, /ʈ/, and /x/.
A "miniature" version of the above:
/m n ɲ/
/p t t͜ʃ/
/w ɾ j/
/u a i/
(C)V(C)
The coda may consist of a nasal or sonorant.
Nasals assimilate to the place of the following consonant.
Obstruents are voiced intervocalically.
Obstruents alternate with sonorants and merge into sonorants in coda.
Coda /ɾ/ becomes [a̯].
Hiatus is broken up by the sonorant counterpart of the first vowel. (E.g. /a.i/ > /a.ɾi/, /i.u/ > /i.ju/)
-
- sinic
- Posts: 401
- Joined: 21 Jul 2012 08:01
- Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
A somewhat less typologically unusual version of the above, with all the same rules. I'm leaning towards using the version above in something, though, since I like its quirky velar-and-fricativelessness.
/m n ŋ/
/p t k/
/w j h/
/u i a/
/m n ŋ/
/p t k/
/w j h/
/u i a/
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Well, hot damn...this is ambitious! Similar to something I might make, that is, if I were brave enough.Vlürch wrote:Sorry if that came across as me being rude, that wasn't my intention; part of it is probably just me being Finnish (and another that I'm an asshole by nature), but I also have an actual reason besides that to not have even thought of that possibility: I always forget that A) phones can be used to go online and/or B) using the internet on a phone has restrictions that using a computer doesn't. The reason is as simple as me not having a smartphone or whatever, only a pretty old regular phone that I use to call people and sometimes texting, and not knowing how going online on a phone even works or what kind of restrictions there are except what I've heard from others maybe one or two times. It's not my top priority to memorise the difficulties of mobile posting, and as such blissfully forget that that's a thing to begin with.DesEsseintes wrote:Just for the record, Vlürch, the denasalisation symbol is not displaying correctly on my phone, which may have led to Omzinesy's confusion as to their use in your phonology. However, I will remember not to ask about details of your phonologies in future if you find being asked so tiresome.Vlürch wrote:No, they're denasalised, like /m/ and /n/ are word-initially in Korean. You could've just googled them and the first result would've told you that that diacritic means denasalisation, but well.qwed117 wrote:I'm gonna guess that means they're creaky voiced.Omzinesý wrote:What do m͊ and n͊ mean?Vlürch wrote: /m n ɲ ŋ m͊ n͊/ <m n ny ng ṃ ṇ>
I really don't want beefs on this forum, too, since it's the only one where the majority of users probably don't hate me yet...
/m n ɲ/
/p b t̼ d̼ t d ɖ k/
/pʰ b̪ʱ t̼ʰ ʈʰ ɖʱ cʰ kʰ ɢʱ ʔʰ/
/d̼ʷ ɖʷ kʷ qʷ/
/t͡s t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/
/t͡sʰ/
/c͡ç ɟ͡ʝ/
/q͡χʰ/
/s z ʃ ʒ/
/ʂʷ ʐʷ/
/θ ð x ʕ/
/ʀ/
/p͡ɬ t̼͡ɬ̼ t͡ɬ d͡ɮ c͡ʎ̝̊ ɟ͡ʎ̝ k͡ʟ̝̊/
/p͡ɬʰ t̼͡ɬ̼ʰ t͡ɬʰ ɡ͡ʟ̝ʱ/
/ɮ/
/w ɥ/
/tʼ ʈʼ ʡʼ/
/t͡θʼ d͡ðʼ k͡xʼ q͡χʼ/
/p͡ɬʼ t͡ɬʼ k͡ʟ̝̊ʼ/
/ɓ ɓ̪ ɗ̼ ɗ ɠ ʛ/
/ɗ͡ʒ ɠ͡ɣ ʛ̥͡ʀ̥/
/ɓ̥͡ɬ ɓ͡ɮ/
/ɑ ɛ i ɤ ɔ u/
/aː ə̹ː iː ɔː/
/ɑ̃ː ɛ̃ː ĩː ɔ̃ː ũː/
/ɑʊ̯ ɐɪ̯ æʏ̯ eɪ̯ ɞɤ̯ oʊ̯ ʉə̯ yø̯/
/ɑɪ̯̃ ɛə̯̃ oʊ̯̃/
𖥑𖧨𖣫𖦺𖣦𖢋𖤼𖥃𖣔𖣋𖢅𖡹𖡨𖡶𖡦𖡧𖡚𖠨
- Frislander
- mayan
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
- Location: The North
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/p t t͡s k ʔ/
/p’ t’ t͡s’ k’/
/ɸ ɬ s x/
/β l ɹ ɣ/
/m n/
/i e æ o ɑ/ in long and short, with or without nasalisation. Each vowel may also have either mid, high or low tone.
Syllable structure is CV(F), where F is either a plain stop or a voiceless fricative.
/p’ t’ t͡s’ k’/
/ɸ ɬ s x/
/β l ɹ ɣ/
/m n/
/i e æ o ɑ/ in long and short, with or without nasalisation. Each vowel may also have either mid, high or low tone.
Syllable structure is CV(F), where F is either a plain stop or a voiceless fricative.