False cognates

[DrGeoffStandish]

I think it is generally accepted that hjá is related to hjú, my guess is that the Nynorsk dictionary has just copied the definition from Bokmål hos. I haven't seen that etymology suggested elsewhere.

I've noticed that the etymologies in that source are somewhat dubious when I've cross checked with other sources.

It's from hér með. Reinhammar notes both hermä and hemä (with varying spellings, of course).

I've always assumed hér með as the etymology but have never seen anything written about it so couldn't be sure. I've never heard the r when jamts have pronounced the word, otherwise the etymology would've been easy to figure out. (Unless there's a hypercorrection going on.)

Also common is dä(r)mä (< þær með) and just mä.

OK, though the etymology would rather be þar með (the "ä" is analogical, I reckon). So, basically the etymology is með with hér or þar optionally added.

It can be noted that Jamtish is not alone in lacking hos - it is a thouroughly southern word.

So it's með in most Norwegian, Svea and Northern Swedish dialects?

[Aevas]

Also common is dä(r)mä (< þær með) and just mä.

OK, though the etymology would rather be þar með (the "ä" is analogical, I reckon). So, basically the etymology is með with hér or þar optionally added.

13th century East Norwegian seems to have had þær, contrasting with West Norwegian þar. What this means for Jamtish I cannot say, but it doesn't strike me as an unreasonable feature.

It can be noted that Jamtish is not alone in lacking hos - it is a thouroughly southern word.

So it's með in most Norwegian, Svea and Northern Swedish dialects?

mä is used in Jämtland, Härjedalen and western Hälsningland. Most of Central and Northern Sweden (incl. northern Västergötland and Värmland) as well as Finland has när/ner. Southern Sweden has hos, except for Öland which has nästa/näster (which also occurs in Ovansiljan, Finland and Västerbotten) and Gotland which has bäi (from Low German bī). There are also the competing forms i in Northern Sweden (DA-HL and northwards), and te in Southern Sweden (~SK-HL-BL-SM-VG).

[DrGeoffStandish]

13th century East Norwegian seems to have had þær, contrasting with West Norwegian þar. What this means for Jamtish I cannot say, but it doesn't strike me as an unreasonable feature.

At least we must've had þarna rather than þærna since we today have "dan" coming from this. The only MJ form I've heard when it comes to þar/þær is "der" which seems to be analogical form which has borowed the vowel from "her" < hér. I think I've seen "dar" in text (analogical form based on from "dan"?) but have never heard or seen "där/dær" < *þær. This is worth looking up more closely.

mä is used in Jämtland, Härjedalen and western Hälsningland.

(North-)Western Hälsingland is traditionally to be considered as eastern Härjedalen since the dialect seems to have been spread eastwards along Ljusnan river to about Ljusdaland to some extent the Dellen lakes (that's why the football player Tomas Brolin, Näsviken, speaks with a Härjedalish accent while the musician Östen Eriksson, Enånger, speaks with a Hälsinglandish accent even though they grew up only some 20km from each other). So it makes sense.

Most of Central and Northern Sweden (incl. northern Västergötland and Värmland) as well as Finland has när/ner. Southern Sweden has hos, except for Öland which has nästa/näster (which also occurs in Ovansiljan, Finland and Västerbotten) and Gotland which has bäi (from Low German bī). There are also the competing forms i in Northern Sweden (DA-HL and northwards), and te in Southern Sweden (~SK-HL-BL-SM-VG).

Yeah, I recognize näst from Elfdalian. Could it be superlative of när? BTW, why doesn't Swedish have när when that seems to be the form preferred by the dialects on which the standard language is based? Is hos an older form which när has ourtcompeted in those dialects? But när/näst seems to be used in the more archaic dialects spoken in e.g. Dalarna.

[Prinsessa]

Yeah, I recognize näst from Elfdalian. Could it be superlative of när?

That's technically/historically what it is in in the standard language too (när itself being the comparative of nå).

[GrandPiano]

Has it been mentioned that there is a Japanese sword called a sai that kind of resembles the Greek letter psi? (I know the Greek pronunciation doesn't sound much like sai at all, but still…)

[Xonen]

Has it been mentioned that there is a Japanese sword called a sai that kind of resembles the Greek letter psi? (I know the Greek pronunciation doesn't sound much like sai at all, but still…)

Yes, in fact, although not in this thread.

[Squall]

much, mucho

[HoskhMatriarch]

I was just reading about single-word serial verbs (sometimes also called verb compounding, although that term is ambiguous and not used in this book that I've read) in Olutec and the word for do is "tun" so it's spelled the same as German to do "tun" even though I'm guessing the Olutec one has an unaspirated t and a short vowel.

Also reminds me of a more boring false cognate, Italian grosso and related words to German groß.

Edit: Olutec also has a wa:nʔ meaning want.

[All4Ɇn]

I always found it interesting how in modern Arabic ة is pronounced as /a/ and is used at the end of most feminine nouns and is used to make feminine nouns and adjective forms much like /a/ is used in many Romance languages.

[Shemtov]

OE ān and Korean han(a)- "one"

[HinGambleGoth]

:gla: braw
bra

They both sound and mean the same, and it is often attributed to "vikings", but the scottish word is loaned from Gaelic breá whilst the swedish word is a fairly late loan attested since the 17th century, a shortened form of brave

[alynnidalar]

much, mucho

Wait, those aren't cognates?? I never realized!

[GrandPiano]

much, mucho

Wait, those aren't cognates?? I never realized!

I thought the same thing. Apparently, much goes back to PIE *meǵa-/*meǵh₂-, while mucho goes back to Latin multus - Wiktionary doesn't say what the PIE ancestor of multus is, but the Latin descendants of *meǵh₂- are magnus, maior, magis, magister, and mactus.

[Sumelic]

Are "main" and "magnus" cognates? I always thought they were, then I wasn't sure, then I looked them up on Wiktionary and it seems to me like they are again.

[qwed117]

Are "main" and "magnus" cognates? I always thought they were, then I wasn't sure, then I looked them up on Wiktionary and it seems to me like they are again.

No, laryngeals.
PIE main = megh
PIE magnus = megh2

[GrandPiano]

English snake, Old Chinese 蜴 *lek "lizard"
English flee, Old Chinese 逸 *lit "flee"
English male, Old Chinese 牡 *muʔ "male"
English man, Old Chinese 民 *miŋ "people" (or modern Mandarin 民 mín "people")

[Lao Kou]

English man, Old Chinese 民 *miŋ "people" (or modern Mandarin 民 mín "people")

Or visually even closer with Canto 民 man/men (depending on who's romanizing)

[Prinsessa]

Cantonese gets a hip short form now? :p

[Lao Kou]

Cantonese gets a hip short form now? :p

Had it since at least the 80s for us hep cats.

[Ear of the Sphinx]

Canto cantare!