TC: Sk8er Boy

[Prinsessa]

Yes, I will shamelessly admit that I like this song by Avril Lavinge and that it gives me nostalgic feelings from the early 2000's. Now, to the point.

The lyrics of this song is a potentially interesting piece of text to translate because it does something that not every language that isn't English is capable of; it constantly swaps back and forth between the pronouns 'he' and 'she' (and their object and genitive counterparts 'him', 'her', 'his' and 'hers') to show who, of the boy and the girl that the song is about, is intended.

Not every language has separate gender in pronouns or even number difference in the third person (or any person) and can't this conveniently and easily make it unambiguously clear to the listener whether she's currently singing about the boy or the girl as English can. Finnish and Hungarian would be obvious examples and even in something like Spanish, I suppose it would still sound bulky to do what English does since Spanish is generally pro-drop (and doesn't mark gender on verbs like, say Hebrew [this is true, right?]).

My conlang Kozea might work out for this. While it does mark gender even in the first and second person singular, it's still as pro-drop as Spanish and constantly using the pronouns might sound very bulky and forced. My other language, Vanga, doesn't differentiate between gender at all, and is, too, pro-drop, so I'm not sure yet of how to solve it.

I will return to this thread when I have translated something into these two languages of mine. I'd love to see aforementioned languages Finnish, Hungarian, Spanish and Hebrew tackle this, if someone native could offer those! Any other languages too, but Swedish and German will be just like Swedish here, of course (but that is in itself a very interesting thing to me, despite it being inherently unexotic to me).

[Prinsessa]

I did the first part of the lyrics. This is my current language Vanga. It's a quite polysynthetic verb-only language, although with pronouns as its only true nominals, with a simple tense and mood system (present, past or future in indicative or subjunctive), a four-way person distinction for disambiguation, and, most importantly, no grammatical gender distinction, even in the pronouns.

The language has ergative alignment and suffixes to denote direct and indirect objects and makes a distinction between animate and inanimate things in a way similar to active and inactive states, and thus only animate objects take case inflection. Inanimate ones must always stand in the absolutive and funky constructions thus are required for them, but these are obviously a core part of the language since these constitute a great amount of it. A third class of them comes from genitives of animate objects and don't even take number inflection.

All of this makes the ergative case kind of rare in general and instead the nominal-like relative verbs are incorporated into the stems of other words, making most sentences require no stand-alone object and therefore have nothing to mark for ergative.

It has a somewhat outdated orthography for the main dialect (the orthography serves to describe all dialects and the main one has diverged a bit from the original pronunciation of the time when the orthography was first created).

I tried to make the syllable count fit the original lyrics as well as possible, but didn't do any attempt at making it rhyme.

Vájllahwœn va.
He was a boy.
SUBESS-carry<PAST>-REL.ANIM.ABS<CONTR>-ESS.3PS 3PS.ABS
"boy was he/she/it"
[ˈvaːjl̥ːɑɧ̽ʍœɱ ʋa]

Vœlljæhwœn hæ.
She was a girl.
SUPESS-carry<PAST>-REL.ANIM.ABS<CONTR>-ESS.3PS DEM.ABS
"girl was this"
[ˈvœʎ̥ːæɧ̽ʍœn̥ hæ]

Tųwho tœyjjæ ýzgijnæhi?
Can I otherwise (than that) shed light upon this?
be_possible.3PS-INT other-GEN be_bright<ABLAUT><SUBJ>-1PS-OBJ.DEM
"is it possible else I would illuminate this?"
[ˈtʊ̃wʍɔ ˈtœ͡ʏjːæʲ ˈyːzɡʊjnæhɯ]

Fĺqǫujæiplæs vaiḷ.
The boy played hard music.
rough-hear-one-do<PAST>.3PS SUBESS-carry<PAST>-REL.ANIM.ABS<CONTR><CONTR>
"hard sound-unification was done by boy"
[ˈfɫ̥̩qɔ̃͡ʊ̃jæ͡ɪpl̥æs̻ ˈva͡ɪl̥]

Mýnákkolug vœuḷḷ.
The girl did soft dancing.
soft-bleed-shake<PAST>.3PS SUPESS-carry<PAST>-REL.ANIM.ABS<CONTR><CONTR>
"soft body shake was done by girl"
[ˈmyːnaːkːɔwʊw ʋœ͡ʊl̥ː]

Ha tœyjjæ tųw sáhsmaj?
What else can I say?
INT.ABS other-GEN be_possible.3PS say<SUBJ>-1PS
"what else is possible I would say?"
[ha ˈtœ͡ʏjːæ ˈtʊ̃w ˈps̻aːhs̻m̥ɑj]

Vœlljæh diulg va.
He yearned for the girl.
SUPESS-carry<PAST>-REL.ANIM.ABS<CONTR> desire<PAST>.3PS 3PS.ABS
"girl was desired by him/her/it"
[ˈvœʎ̥ːæɧ θʊlj va]

Villstyn æijj' hæ.
That one (the girl) would'nt speak,
speak<PAST.SUBJ>.4PS NEG<CONTR> DEM.ABS
"would speak (fourth person) not this"
[ˈvɪl̥ːs̻tʏn æ͡ɪjː çæ]

Ó' silmjóhadiulgynstonæwi.
but secretly, she yearned for him too.
and<CONTR> dark-reside-desire<PAST>-4PS-though-OBJ.3PS
"too secret-desired though he/she/it (fourth person) him/her/it (third person)"
[ɔː ˈs̻ɪlmjɔːhɑðʊljʏn̥s̻tɔnœ͡ʊwɯ]

Ǽskollkahwa
All of the friends
all-be_warm<PAST>-ANIM.ABS-POSS.3PS
"all friends his/hers/its"
[ˈæːɕkɔl̥ːkɑhʍɑ]

feupṇállalnæh',
"gave a lot of shit" about this
dirty-care<PAST>.3PS-OBJ.DEM<CONTR>
"fucking cared [about] this"
[ˈfœ͡ʊpn̥aːl̥ːɛŋæħː]

ó' kauksilmuspœnnjæwi læls vájllahha.
and the boy's clothes were a big problem to them.
and<CONTR> big-dark-REL.INANIM.ABS-ESS.3PS-OBJ.3PP carry<PAST>-REL.INANIM.ABS SUPESS-carry<PAST>-REL.ANIM.GEN<CONTR>
"and big problem were [to] them clothes boy's"
[ɔː ˈka͡ʊks̻ɪlmʊs̻pœŋːœ͡ʊwɯ ˈlæl̥ts̻ ˈfaːjl̥ːɑɧːɑ]

Now, some explanation might have to be done. My glosses are very detailed, so if they look really obscure, looking at the small-font text between quotation marks below the other translation might be good. Still, some of these are kind of funny or need a better explanation for some other reason. Let's look at those.

The most obscure glosses are probably those of the words meaning 'boy' and 'girl'. Quite literally, these mean "who carries below (the belly)" and "who carries above (the belly)", respectively. Carry what? Protrusions! Genitals for the men and breasts for the women, obviously. The longer forms that we see are already contractions of the longer original words, glossed with <CONTR>, and the even shorter forms have been colloquially contracted further, hence the <CONTR><CONTR> glosses.

Another interesting one might be the thing translated as "fucking" and glossed as dirty. The gloss properly describes the true meaning of the word and the translation is an approximation, but neither of these are perfect. It is more or less a prefix that is employed to give an emphasised meaning of something that is done in a bad or unwanted manner. It is not a swearword to the same extent as in English and not really quite that loaded at all. It is, on the other hand, very colloquial and not something you would here in a less popular song (here in the sense of 'of people' and to emphasise the fact that it is a 'pop[ular] song').

As for the final three paragraphs, about the friends giving a damn, it is indeed not clear at all, in any way whatsoever, whose friends these are. They're just 'all friends'. However, this is cleared up in my final line, when it is explained that they're bothered by the boy's clothes.

[Khemehekis]

I did this song in Kankonian last year. Here's my best translation, although it doesn't fit the rhyme nor the meter:



Met en bein
3excp PST boy
One of them was a boy

Mui ever met en piva
and other 3excp PST girl
And the other one of them was a girl

Mahan is wahazas hazi ad ded re ukal ham?
do? 1sg be.able.to-PRS make to at.all more obvious that
Could I make that any more obvious?

Bein en pank
boy PST punk
He was a punk

Piva fazen balei
girl do-PST ballet
She did ballet

Hiel kelmatz ad oyez?
what else for say
What else to say?

Bein mifshen piva
boy like(romantically)+PST girl
He liked her

Piva sarken ad emiya ad eidu
girl would.never-PST to tell to anyone
She'd never tell anyone

Am shakiya we piva mifshen bein muye
but secret -ly girl like(romantically)-PST boy also
But secretly she liked him as well

Am hales meshas ad piva hombisen
but all-PL friend-PL to girl snoot-PST
But all of her friends snooted

Mui mem usutgaren vwetz fompi na bein
and 3pl have.a.problem.with-PST clothes baggy of boy
And they had a problem with his baggy clothes

Bein en skeitabein
boy PST skater-boy
He was a skater boy*

Piva oyezen, "Dui, zha bein"
girl say-PST later VOC boy
She said, "See you later, boy"

Bein on en baphash venit zhit piva
boy not PST enough good for(standards) girl
He wasn't good enough for her

Piva anen omen az esinen
girl have-PST face that be.pretty-PST
She had a pretty face

Am piva ayen kashos na wan er venyas
but girl have-PST mind of 3sg LOC heaven
But she had her mind in Heaven

Bad na wan kulesen adkarsk
head of 3sg need-PST to-thick
Her head needed to thicken

Kyu oiras ehemumbe
five year-PRS after-now
Five years from now

Piva tzoyas er shakti
girl sit-PRS LOC house
She sits at home

Mos guiss efesh -- wan as hal we dumath
while feed-PRS baby 3sg PRS total -ly alone
While feeding the baby, she's all alone

Piva adlaizias maikrimia
girl to-on-PRS television
She turns on the television

Mui wan emas il?
and 3sg see-PRS whom
And whom does she see?

Wan as Skeitabein mos a*utzkias MTV na rak
3sg PRS skater-boy while fill-PRS MTV of rock
It is Skater Boy, filling MTV with rock

Piva wovingas hales meshas ad wan
girl phone-PRS all friend-PL to 3sg
She calls all her friends

Mem hauess asa
3pl know-PRS already
They already know

Mui hales mem anas bantzes ad em id lero na bein
and all 3pl have-PRS ticket-PL for see done.to show of boy
And they all have tickets to see his show

Piva fe*ehedas
girl tag.along-PRS
She tags along

Sem makhshtisi
among crowd
Among the crowd

Mui gasias bahai ye ihem bein azid wan oermelen
and look-PRS up PREP-ADV toward boy to(obj.) 3sg decline-PST
And looks up at the boy whom she turned down

Bein en skeitabein
boy PST skater-boy
He was a skater boy

Piva oyezen, "Dui, zha bein"
girl say-PST later VOC boy
She said, "See you later, boy"

Bein on en baphash venit zhit piva
boy not PST enough good for(standards) girl
He wasn't good enough for her

Bein as umbe bazhenashau
boy PRS now supernova
Now he's a superstar

Mos keptas vatzbak na wan
while slam-PRS guitar of 3sg
Slamming his guitar

Ad sedark ad Omen az Esinas strat shtaik na wan
for prove.oneself to face that be.pretty-PRS exactly worth of 3sg
To show Pretty Face just what he's worth

Bladat, zha piva, am ar slakusen
too.bad VOC girl but 2sg miss.out-PST
Too bad, girl, but you missed out

Im omen dabad -- is anas ohos na ham bein umbe
well face hard 1sg have-PRS soul of that boy now
Well, tough luck, I have that boy's soul now**

Wir re de shilmeshias *asig
1pl more than as-friend-PRS each.other
We more than like as a friend each other

Ham as houmans iyes spaisas
this PRS about-how story end-PRS
This is how the story ends

Bladat, ar os wahazen em
too-bad 2sg not be.able.to-PST see
Too bad, you could not see

Wiri az ham bein wahazen e
man that that boy be.able.to-PST be
The man that boy could be

Adaz o oul wahazas em e meshiya aas
for-that one only be.able.to-PRS see in meshiya exist-PRS
There exists what one can only see in the meshiya***

Emet ohos az ailiss der ye
see-IMPRTV soul that dwell-PRS inside PREP-ADV
See the soul that dwells inside

Wan as dash bein
3sg PRS simply boy
He's just a boy

Mui is as dash piva
and 1sg PRS simply girl
And I'm just a girl

Mahan is wahazas hazi ad ded re ukal ham?
do? 1sg be.able.to-PRS make to at.all more obvious that
Could I make that any more obvious?

Wir shapeblamenas
1pl fall.in.love-PST-PRS
We have fallen in love

Ar theshen
2sg hear-PST
You have heard

Housweos wir ayas efilas *asig, isnaloshas
anent 1pl have-PRS dance-PRS each.other 1sg-assume-PRS
How we have each other dancing, haven't you?

Umbe is as hel skeitabein
now 1sg PRS with skater-boy
Now I'm with the skater boy

Is oyezas, "Dui, zha bein"
1sg say-PRS later VOC boy
I say, "See you later, boy"

Is os kharlos mos lero
1sg FUT backstage during show
I'll be backstage during the show

Wir os er hekzal na wan
1pl FUT LOV studio of 3sg
We'll be at his studio

Mos yayaras daluye azid wan arditzen
while sing-PRS song that(obj.) 3sg author-PST
While singing a song he wrote

Hous piva azid oitshau wan *asen
about girl that(obj.) the.way.it.used.to.be 3sg know-PST
About a girl he used to know




*"Skeita" refers to "skater" in the sense of the Terran skateboarding subculture. It is compounded with "bein" in analogy with "hudisbein" and "hudispiva", the Kankonian words for male and female members respectively of the "hudis", or Kankonian skateboarding, subculture. Also c.f. "hesisbein" and "hesispiva" for members of the Kankonian hoverboarding subculture.

**The Kankonians would never say "S/He's mine" or "I'm yours". It rings of slavery to them.

***"Meshiya" is a borrowing from the Shaleyan. It means the part of the light spectrum that can only be seen with the eyes closed. This is presumably the wavelength of God.