"already"

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Creyeditor
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Re: "already"

Post by Creyeditor »

:idn: Papua Indonesian

Su makan
already eat
Have you already eaten?

Su makan, belum?
already eat, not.yet
Have you already eaten?

Sa su lihat dia.
1SG already see 3SG
I've already seen him.

Sa su perna lihat dia.
1SG already ever see 3SG
I've already seen him (once).

De su ada nanti, kalo kita sampai?
3SG already COP later, if 1PL arrive
Will he already be there when we arrive?

De su ada di ruma.
3SG already COP LOC house
She is already at home

su is actually more of an aspect particle, so it might not have the exact same meaning as already.
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Iyionaku
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Re: "already"

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Caelian

Tag Zan mostapil bye?
[tʰag zan mɔʃtʰaˈpʰɪl bʲɛ]
POL 2SG.NOM meal.TERM COP.2SG>3SG
Have you already eaten?

Rar Tong vaplapin byäi.
[raɾ tʰɔŋ vaplaˈpʰɪn bʲæɪ̯]
1SG.NOM 3SG.MASC.ACC appearance.TERM COP.1SG>3SG
I have already seen him.

Tag Tot codrapi robyäis mun Sang rosuoderra?
[tʰag tʰɔt ʒɔdraˈpʰi rɔˈbʲæɪ̯ʃ mʊn ʒaŋ rɔʒʊɔ̯dɛˈra]
POL 3SG.MASC.NOM arrival.TERM FUT-COP.3SG>3SG when 1PLIN.NOM arrive.1PLIN
Will he already be there when we arrive?

Tat codrapi vportalyen byäis.
[tʰat ʒɔdraˈpʰi p̪ɔɾtʰaˈʎɛn bʲæɪʃ]
3SG.FEM.NOM arrival.TERM home.INN COP.3SG>3SG
She is already at home.

Caelian's way to express "already" is a little bit quirky and may feel unusual. The action itself is nominalized, set into terminative case (with the infix -api-) and connected to the rest by usage of the irregular verb byanglis. So, instead of saying "I have already seen him", you actually say "I am at the end of his appearance"; instead of "Have you already eaten?" "Are you at the end of your meal? The nouns can be derived from the same root most of the time, although not always: In the third sentence it is shown how you have to use the root c-dr-Ø (arrival; to come) instead of s-dr-Ø (to arrive).
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Imralu
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Re: "already"

Post by Imralu »

:tan: Swahili

"Already" comes from the verb (ku)isha, "to finish" with the perfect marker -me-.
  • Umeshakula?
    u-me-sha-ku-l-a
    2s-PRF-finish-INF*-eat-IND
    Have you already eaten?
*The ku- infinitive prefix is conserved in several forms of verbs with monosyllabic stems.
  • Nimeshamwona.
    ni-me-sha-m(w)on-a
    1s-PRF-finish-3s.ANIM-see-INDIC
    I already saw him.
Edit:
I don't know how how to do locatives other than in present tense yet, so I'll do them when I know.

I've found out how to do locatives in other tenses. I just realised though that I didn't need it because I think Swahili will use "arrive" for these, since "already" only works with the perfect, so "already be at" will be "already have arrived at", which seems like a typical Swahili thing from what I've seen so far. Not entirely positive about the compound tense in this next example ... I'm analogising a future perfect out of how I've seen pluperfect and present continuous formed.
  • Atakuwa ameshafika hapo tukifika?
    a-ta-ku-w-a a-me-sha-fik-a hapo tu-ki-fik-a
    3s.ANIM-FUT-INF*-be-INDIC 3s.ANIM-PRF-already-arrive-INDIC exactly.there.MED 1p-COND-arrive-INDIC
    Will he already be there when we arrive?

    Ameshafika nyumbani
    a-me-sha-fik-a nyumba-ni
    3s.ANIM-PRF-already-arrive-INDIC house-LOC
    She is already at home.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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GrandPiano
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Re: "already"

Post by GrandPiano »

:esp: Spanish

¿Ya has comido?
[ɟ͡ʝa as koˈmið̞o]
ya has com-ido
already PRF.2SG.FAM.PRS.IND eat-PP

Have you already eaten?

Ya lo vi.
[ɟ͡ʝa lo β̞i]
ya lo vi
already 3SG.ACC.M see.1SG.PRET.IND

I already saw him.

¿Ya estará allá cuando lleguemos?*
[ɟ͡ʝa estaˈɾa aˈja ˈkwando jeˈɣ̞amos]
ya est-ará allá cuando lleg(u)-emos
already COP-3SG.FUT.IND there when arrive-1PL.PRS.SJV

Will he/she already be there when we arrive?

*Because of the earlier discussions about French and Italian, I'm not sure whether the present llegamos present subjunctive lleguemos or the future indicative llegaremos would be more appropriate here. For now, I'm using the present form.

Ya está en casa.
[ɟ͡ʝa esˈta eŋ ˈkasa]
ya está en casa-Ø
already COP.3SG.PRS.IND at home-SG

He/she is already at home.
Last edited by GrandPiano on 15 Apr 2017 16:38, edited 4 times in total.
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Lao Kou
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Re: "already"

Post by Lao Kou »

GrandPiano wrote:¿Ya estará allá cuando llegamos?*
Will he/she already be there when we arrive?

*Because of the earlier discussions about French and Italian, I'm not sure whether the present llegamos or the future llegaremos would be more appropriate here. For now, I'm using the present form.
Lam or a native speaker should weigh in here, but although I imagine one could probably let it slide with the present indicative, I might opt for the present subjunctive:

¿Ya estará allá cuando lleguemos?*
Will he/she already be there when we arrive?
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
GrandPiano
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Re: "already"

Post by GrandPiano »

I thought about that, but I figured that the indicative would be used because the sentence seems to imply that it is a known fact that the speaker and co. will arrive, without question. I could very well be wrong, though.
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Lao Kou
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Re: "already"

Post by Lao Kou »

GrandPiano wrote:I thought about that, but I figured that the indicative would be used because the sentence seems to imply that it is a known fact that the speaker and co. will arrive, without question. I could very well be wrong, though.
Having said what I said, I went on to look and found this:
III. Adverbial clauses give information such as “when”, “why”, “how” or “where” something happens. The verb in an adverbial clause will be in the subjunctive if the action/state in the clause is anticipated —that is, viewed as being in the future in comparison to the action/state represented by the governing verb. The indicative is used in clauses where the action is viewed as habitual or having been completed.

Adverbial clauses are introduced by adverbial conjunctions, some of which by their very nature always indicate something anticipatory and hence always take the subjunctive: antes de que (before), para que (so that), a fin de que (so that), sin que (without), a menos que (unless), and con tal de que (provided that).

Some of the more frequent adverbial conjunctions which may take either the indicative or the subjunctive: cuando (when), hasta que (until), después de que (after), tan pronto como (as soon as), mientras (while).

Cada domingo después que desayunamos, la familia asiste a servicios religiosos. Every Sunday after we eat breakfast, the family attends religious services. [Indic.: habitual action]
Cuando termines la tarea iremos al cine. When you finish the homework, we'll go the movies. [Subj.: anticipated action]
from here
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
GrandPiano
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Re: "already"

Post by GrandPiano »

I see, makes sense. In that case, I'll edit my translation.
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Lao Kou
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Re: "already"

Post by Lao Kou »

GrandPiano wrote:I see, makes sense. In that case, I'll edit my translation.
Fear and trembling, bra -- that any language uses an indicative future tense (Géarthnuns included) without fear of being crispy-fried by a divine thunderbolt is rather amazing. [}:D] Hedging one's bets with a subjunctive makes much more sense. [:)]
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Adarain
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Re: "already"

Post by Adarain »

Iyionaku wrote::deu: German
Ist er schon da, wenn wir kommen?
[ʔɪst ʔɛɐ̯ ʃɔn da, vən viɐ̯ ˈkʰɔmən↗]
COP.3SG 3SG.MASC.NOM already there, when 1PL.NOM come.1PL
Will he already be there when we arrive?
This one actually sounds off to me. That's one of the rare cases where I find using the present (instead of the future) ungrammatical. That is, I'd expect Wird er schon dort sein?

Also, I guess, Swiss German:

Hesch schu gessa?
[hɛʃ ʃʊ kɛsːɐ]
have.2S already eat.PTCP
Have you already eaten?

I han na schu gse.
[i hanːɐ ʃʊ kse]
I.NOM have.1S he.ACC already see.PTCP
I already saw him.

Wirdr schu dötta si, wemmer akömmen?
[ʋɪɹ̝tɹ̝̩̊ ʃʊ tøtːɐ si | ʋɛmːɹ̝̩ aːkœmn̩]
wird=r schu dötta si, wenn=mer akömmen
will=he.NOM already there be, when=we arrive.PL

Will he already be there when we arrive?


Si isch schu dahai.
[si ɪʃ ʃʊ tɐhaɪ̯]
she.NOM be.3s already at_home
She is already at home.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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Re: "already"

Post by Squall »

Davush wrote:American to my ears. I think in British English, 'already' is used with the perfect most of the time. I would always say 'I've already seen him'.
According to grammar books used by foreigner students, 'already' uses the perfect. It is taught even in schools that teach American English.


:por: Portuguese
Ele já estarà là quando chegarmos?
3sg.NOM.MASC already be-FUT there when arrive-SUBJ.FUT?
Will he already be there when we arrive?

:con: Juraban

Tu ya iñakoy?
2sg already eat-PST?
Have you already eaten?

Min ya mirloy le.
1sg already see-PST DEF.
I have already seen him. (I don't know the difference. For that reason, I modified it to show what I am really translating.)

Le ya sesay ne nwe noy proxay.
DEF already be-FUT LOC.DEF when(LOC.time.LOC.REL) 1pl arrive-FUT.
Will he already be there when we arrive?

Le ya se ne toka.
DEF already be.PRS LOC.DEF home.
She is already at home.



:con: :lat: Neolatin

Ja has manghato?
already have.PRS.2sg eat-PST.PTCP?
Have you already eaten?

Ja lo hoi visto.
already 3sg.ACC.MASC have.PRS.1SG see-PST.PTCP.
I have already seen him.

Illo ja estarà ilà quando arrivemos?
3sg.NOM.MASC already be-FUT there when arrive-SUBJ?
Will he already be there when we arrive?

Illa ja està in casa.
3sg.NOM.FEM already be.PRS LOC home.
She is already at home.
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
:bra: :mrgreen: | :uk: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :epo: [:|] | :lat: [:S] | :jpn: [:'(]
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Dormouse559
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Re: "already"

Post by Dormouse559 »

Squall wrote:According to grammar books used by foreigner students, 'already' uses the perfect. It is taught even in schools that teach American English.
There's native English, and there's English-as-a-second-language English. For a lot of native U.S. speakers, many adverbs that learners are taught trigger the perfect are used with the simple past. "I already saw him" sounds somewhat informal to me compared to "I've already seen him", but otherwise the two are interchangeable.
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Re: "already"

Post by clawgrip »

:jpn: Japanese uses もう mō in all of these sentences:

もう食べた?
Mō tabeta?

already eat-pst
Have you already eaten?

彼はもう見た/会った。
Kare wa mō mita/atta.

3.MASC TOP already see-PST/meet-PST (depending on the meaning of this English sentence)
I already saw him.

着くときにはもうあそこにいる?
Tsuku toki ni wa mō asoko ni iru?

arrive time LOC TOP already DEM.DIST LOC LOC.COP
Will he already be there when we arrive?

彼女はもう家にいる。
Kanojo wa mō ie ni iru.

3.FEM TOP already house LOC LOC.COP
She is already at home.
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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: "already"

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

Imralu wrote::con: :png: Wena:
Image
Went ahead and made this more spherical to match the majority of the others. Not sure if anyone even updates those guys anymore...
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Lao Kou
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Re: "already"

Post by Lao Kou »

Thrice Xandvii wrote:Image
Went ahead and made this more spherical to match the majority of the others. Not sure if anyone even updates those guys anymore...
You do, for which we are grateful. [:)]
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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: "already"

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

Lao Kou wrote:
Thrice Xandvii wrote:Image
Went ahead and made this more spherical to match the majority of the others. Not sure if anyone even updates those guys anymore...
You do, for which we are grateful. [:)]
Ha, thanks.

Though I meant replacing the file so it is used on the forum. : )
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Lao Kou
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Re: "already"

Post by Lao Kou »

Thrice Xandvii wrote:Though I meant replacing the file so it is used on the forum.
I understood that. But people have lives; people get busy. Still, a certain Mr. 37 does not flag in staying on top of such things. [:)]
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Lambuzhao
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Re: "already"

Post by Lambuzhao »

Lao Kou wrote:...without fear of being crispy-fried by a divine thunderbolt is rather amazing... [}:D]
Even amazinger... crispy fried with walnuts [:P]

now I want 核桃蝦/合桃蝦仁 [:P]
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