phrasal and clausal conjunctions

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Nortaneous
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phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Nortaneous »

Sérhes Kéttw does some fun things with conjunctions, especially "but", so I started wondering how other conlangs handle these.

I got this idea from vecfaranti's ZBB thread on "and": http://zbb.spinnwebe.com/viewtopic.php?t=36936 Hopefully I have the terminology here right; I sort of borrowed it from that.

1. The cat and the man ate. (and - phrasal)
2. The cat killed and ate the fish. (and - clausal)
3. The cat ate the fish, but so did the man. (but - phrasal -- can't do this directly in English)
4. The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it. (but - clausal)

Also, how would your conlang represent the literal English translation of 3, if it allows phrasal "but", as Sérhes Kéttw does?

Sérhes Kéttw:

1. Máy lékteman neséitem.
[mɔɥ ˈlektɪmɔ̽‿n̰ɪ̰ˈsejtʏm]
máy létak=em=an neséi-t-m
cat man=and=TOP eat-PFV.ACT-3P

2. Máyan séy nákkat neséit ekkém.
[ˈmɔɥɔ̽n‿ˈd͡zøɥ ˈnɑhkɐ̰‿n̰ɪ̰ˈsejt ɪçˈkøm]
máy=an séy nák~k-t-Ø neséi-t-Ø ekkém
cat=TOP fish death~CAUS-PFV.ACT-3S eat-PFV.ACT-3S and

3. Máy létakian séy neséitem.
[ˈmɔɥ ˈletɐcjæn‿d͡zøɥ nɪˈsejtʏm]
máy létak=i=an séy neséi-t-m
cat man=but=TOP fish eat-PFV.ACT-3P

4. Máyan séy nákkat neséingga pés.
[ˈmɔɥɔ̽n‿d͡zøɥ ˈnɑhkɐ̤‿n̤ɪ̤ˈsejŋ̤ɐ̤ ˈpʰøs]
máy=an séy nák~k-t neséi-t-nga pés
cat=TOP fish death~CAUS-PFV.ACT eat-PFV.ACT-NEG but

5. Máyan séy neséit, léktan pés.
[ˈmɔɥɔ̽n‿d͡zøɥ nɪˈsejt | ˈlektɐm‿ˈpʰes]
máy=an séy neséi-t-Ø | létak=an pés
cat=TOP fish eat-PFV.ACT-3S | man=TOP but
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Ossicone »

Those all can get smooshed into "and" in Inyauk. :-o
Except for the fourth which depends on your emphasis.

1. The cat and the man ate.
Inákaim la i-ínyakim pátxialak.
DEF-cat-AGT and DEF-person-AGT eat-PST-END

2. The cat killed and ate the fish.
Inákail tá-aralak isíma-ia la pátxialak.
DEF-cat-GVR kill-PST-END DEF-fish-BEN and eat-PST-END

3. The cat ate the fish, but so did the man.
Inákaim pátxialak isímaaya la i-ínyakim.
DEF-cat-AGT eat-PST-END DEF-fish-OBJ and DEF-person-AGT

4a. The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it. (Stating fact.)
Inákail tá-aralak isíma-ia la yapátxialak.
DEF-cat-GVR kill-PST-END DEF-fish-BEN and NEG-eat-PST-END

4b. The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it. (Emphasizing the non-eating.)
Inákail tá-aralak isíma-ia tir yapátxialak.
DEF-cat-GVR kill-PST-END DEF-fish-BEN but NEG-eat-PST-END
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Nortaneous »

Interesting. So there's no difference between 3 and "The cat ate the fish, and so did the man"? What about "the cat and the man ate the fish"?
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Ossicone »

Nortaneous wrote:Interesting. So there's no difference between 3 and "The cat ate the fish, and so did the man"? What about "the cat and the man ate the fish"?
Not really.
You'd probably shift the word order but nothing fancy and grammatical. You could also add "nátsiha" (in addition) after, but it's not necessary.

Maybe it's just cause I don't interpret these two as meaning different things:
The cat ate the fish, and so did the man.
and
The cat ate the fish, but so did the man.
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Xing »

:con: Waʻtē

1) Ko ma‘te ā ta wara lē ‘taka.
[ko̞ 'mat̪ːe̞ aː t̪a ɰar̪a l̪eː t̪ːaka]
PRFT eat ERG DEF cat COM DEF.man
'The cat, with the man, ate'

2) Ko pwaūku poe ma‘te ā ta wara ta time.
[ko̞ pa'ɯːk 'po̞e̞ 'mat̪ːe̞ aː t̪a 'ɰar̪a t̪a 't̪ime̞]
PRFT kill CONJ eat ERG DEF cat DEF fish
'The cat killed and ate the fish'

3a) Ko ma‘te ā ta wara lē ‘taka ta time.
[ko̞ 'mat̪ːe̞ aː t̪a 'ɰar̪a l̪e̞ː 't̪ːaka t̪a 't̪ime̞]
PRFT eat ERG DEF cat COM DEF.man DEF fish
'The cat, with the man, ate the fish'

3b) Ko ma‘te ā ta wara ta tima, teya ā ‘taka poxi.
[ko̞ 'mat̪ːe̞ aː t̪a 'ɰar̪a t̪a 't̪ime̞ 't̪e̞ja aː 't̪ːaka 'po̞ʔi]
PRFT eat ERG DEF car DEF fish but ERG DEF.MAN
'The cat ate the fish, but the man did also'

4) Ko pwaūku ā ta wara ta time, teya kū ma‘te.
[ko̞ 'paɯːk aː t̪a 'ɰar̪a t̪a 't̪ime̞ 't̪e̞ja kɯː 'mat̪ːe̞]
PRFT kill ERG DEF cat DEF fish but NEG eat
'The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it'

*****

3 is the most difficult one to translate. The closest equivalent would be to render it as a phrasal conjunction (as in 3a), or as something like 3b.

The words for 'and' (poe) and 'but' (teya) work on a clausal level. Comitative constructions are used one the phrasal level.
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Xing »

:con: Mīrna

Kīkkā kiyāl mīkkaranna.
kīkkā kiyāl mīkkar-anna
cat man eat-ACTIVE.PTCPL
The cat and the man were eating

Kīkkā kizavār mīkkar zīk.
cat kill eat fish
The cat killed and ate the fish

Kīkkā, pār nī kiyāl, mīkkaranna zīk.
kīkkā pār nī kiyāl mīkkar-anna zīk
cat but NEG man eat-ACTIVE.PTCPL fish
The cat, but not the man, are eating fish.

Kīkkā kizavār zīk, pār nīr mīkkar tā.
cat kill fish but NEG eat 3
The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it

(I changed 3)
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Imralu »

:con: Ngolu / Iliaqu

1.
Kau xu niga ju muja.
eat NOM.3s.INAN.DEF cat NOM.3s.ANIM.DEF.ICS initiated.man
The cat and the man eat.

There is no equivalent word to and in this sentence. Cat and man both present in the same case (nominative) and this same-case juxtaposition indicates "and" amongst adjuncts.

2.
Namo xue kau xu niga xis iio
kill.in.order.to.eat also eat NOM.3s.INAN.DEF cat ACC.3s.INAN.DEF fish
The cat kills and eats the fish.

Xue is used within a predicate phrase. It is not a clausal "and". The verbals namo and kau share the same subject and object, so only one clause is needed and xue links two verbals.

3.
Kau xu niga mie jeu ju muja
eat NOM.3s.INAN.DEF cat but same NOM.3s.ANIM.DEF.ICS initiated.man
The cat eats the fish but so does the man.

4.
Uo xu niga xis iio (xe kka kau)
kill* NOM.3s.INAN.DEF cat ACC.3s.INAN.DEF fish (and NEG eat)
The cat killed the fish but did not eat it.

In this example, saying that the cat didn't eat it is redundant since that information is already included in the verbal uo which specifies deliberate killing for essentially no reason (not for food, not for self-defence), as opposed to namo in the examples above which specifies killing to eat. If you really do want to then also include "but did not eat it", you would use xe ("and") rather than mie ("but") because mie is used to introduce contrasting or unexpected information, but since we've already said that the cat uoed the fish it is completely expected that the cat did not eat the fish.
Edit: Forgot to close the bold tag on the last sentence.
Last edited by Imralu on 04 Jul 2016 18:07, edited 1 time in total.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by atman »

:con: Atlántika

There isn't much to say about que [ke] 'and'. Just two things: it's usually shortened to q' [k] before a vowel, and it had a variant form ke [xe] in older Atlántika after words that ended in a vowel, but this variant was eventually lost. One more thing: this que doesn't come from PIE -kʷe 'and' (which would be reflected as **ti in Atlántika)

1.
Aldros q'adar paghòze.
cat and-man eat-3PL

Again a little note: the verbal root phag- 'to eat' only made a past tense (iphag-) in older Atlántika, for the present you needed a different root altogether (xthigj-)..

2.
Aldros ektun ktène que paghe.
cat fish-ACC kill-3SG and eat-3SG

One could use fuktène 'kills off' in place of ktène to sound more emphatic.

3.
Aldros ektun paghe, al izon adar prèxe.
cat fish-ACC eat-3SG but same-ACC man do-3SG

4.
Aldros ektun iktèni, al tun ma ipaji.
cat fish-ACC PST-kill-3SG.PST but he-ACC not PST-eat-3SG.PST

There tend to be some alternations in past tense verbs in Atlántika: even a regular one like 'I ate' has ipagha-ipaghes-ipaji in the singular and ipaghmin-ipacti-ipaghon in the plural.
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Lao Kou »

Nortaneous wrote:how would your conlang represent the literal English translation of 3, if it allows phrasal "but", as Sérhes Kéttw does?
I guess it depends on what Sentence 3 actually means.

Sentence 1 is easy to follow:

The cat [tick] and the man [tick] ate. (AFF and AFF)

So is 2:

The cat killed [tick] and ate [tick] the fish. (AFF and AFF)

And 4:

The cat killed [tick] the fish, but did not eat [cross] it. (AFF but NEG)

But what is 3?:

The cat ate [tick] the fish, but so did [tick] the man. (AFF but AFF) What exactly is being "but"ted here? [o.O]
The cat ate the fish, but so did the man. (but - phrasal -- can't do this directly in English)
The reason being that the direct "The cat but the man ate the fish." makes no sense as is.

On the other hand (and are these not phrasal?):

Not the cat but the man ate the fish. (NEG but AFF)
The cat but not the man ate the fish. (AFF but NEG)

are okay, if a little forced out of context (sprinkle commas as you will).

And even better:

Not only the cat but also the man ate the fish. (NEG but AFF, and in the end they both affirmatively eat the fish)

The sentence 3 to be translated was tweaked after the "but" with a "so did the man" (aka. "the man did also"), which makes it a kind of tortured, though understandable, "not only ... but also ..." sentence.

How have other languages in the thread handled it?

Inyauk throws out the "but" as meaning "and" here and proceeds (the cat and the man both eat - makes sense)

Waʻtē in its initial 3a gives us the cat and the man (makes sense). In initial 3b, it tries to play ball with "the cat but the man" (not making sense). The "also" in the English translation is not included in the gloss and back up into the original Waʻtē. One way to explain that would be that sentences of this type automatically and pragmatically imply/include an "also" (which would make sense), but if that's happening, that was not explained.

In the subsequent post using Mīrna, sentence 3 is modified to the more sensical "the cat but not the man" and proceeds.

Ngolu / Iliaqu use a modified "but also" strategy so it makes sense.

Atlántika does the same.

But what's up with Sérhes Kéttw?
1. Máy lékteman neséitem.
máy létak=em=an neséi-t-m
cat man=and=TOP eat-PFV.ACT-3P
and
3. Máy létakian séy neséitem.
máy létak=i=an séy neséi-t-m
cat man=but=TOP fish eat-PFV.ACT-3P
are identical except for the "and" and "but". So what does 3 mean? Is there an pragmatically implied "also" in there? If not, then what? The verb is third person plural, so what is one to make of "The cat but the man were eating the fish."? (I alter the aspect for effect here only because "ate" does not change for person in English) What are the pragmatics in play? Is it a contrast or not? (in which case, its difference from the "but" in "killed but did not eat" is more than just phrasal vs. clausal).

One may ask a similar question of 5:
5. Máyan séy neséit, léktan pés.
máy=an séy neséi-t-Ø | létak=an pés
cat=TOP fish eat-PFV.ACT-3S | man=TOP but
(Apologies if the link to the ZBB in the OP makes all clear -- I was not able to click to it :roll: )

Image Géarthnuns

Yes, different and's and but's:

Chau teshers zhö chö dhaubs lé chö víöbsöt glozh.
DEF cat-NOM and DEF man-NOM AUX.PAST DEF fish-ACC eat
The cat and the man ate the fish.

Chau teshers lé chö víöbsöt nggavökh kfö glozh.
DEF cat-NOM AUX.PAST DEF fish-ACC kill and eat
The cat killed and ate the fish.

:?: Chau teshers, de chö dhaubs lé chö víöbsöt flöi glozh.
DEF cat-NOM, and/but DEF man-NOM AUX.PAST DEF fish-ACC also eat
The cat ate the fish, but so did the man.

Well, that's a rather direct rendering of what's going on (whatever that is). I guess it works, but it sounds extremely forced.

Most on Géarthtörs would be much happier with a contrastive:

Vau teshems mwasírem, arzhö chö dhaubs lé chö víöbsöt flöi glozh.
DEF.NEG cat-NOM.NEG only-NOM.NEG, but DEF man-NOM AUX.PAST DEF fish-ACC also eat
Not only the cat, but also the man ate the fish.

Chau teshers lé chö víöbsöt nggavökh, arkfö fökhöt glozh.
DEF cat-NOM AUX.PRES DEF fish-ACC kill but 3SG-ACC.NEG eat
The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it.
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by shimobaatar »

I didn't understand the third one, either, and my translation reflects that. Similarly, I wasn't sure what the fifth one was meant to convey, exactly, so I left that one out. The ZBB link also doesn't work for me.

:con: Project Jade:

1) The cat and the man ate.
Qez oıžämç tëın jäwaı sôn.
qez oıžämç tëın jäwaı sôn
eat cat and.PHRASE person TOP
The cat and the man eat.

2) The cat killed and ate the fish.
Cçɔ̨š oıžämç sôn yąıx, nâ qez oıžämç sôn yąıx.
cçɔ̨š oıžämç sôn yąıx nâ qez oıžämç sôn yąıx
die cat TOP fish and.CLAUSE eat cat TOP fish
The cat kills the fish, and the cat eats the fish.

3) The cat ate the fish, but so did the man.
Qez oıžämç sôn yąıx, nâ qez jäwaı sôn yąıx.
qez oıžämç sôn yąıx nâ qez jäwaı sôn yąıx
eat cat TOP fish and.CLAUSE eat person TOP fish
The cat eats the fish, and the man eats the fish.

4) The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it.
Cçɔ̨š oıžämç sôn yąıx, ẋɔ qez yêvąı oıžämç sôn yąıx.
cçɔ̨š oıžämç sôn yąıx ẋɔ qez yêvąı oıžämç sôn yąıx
die cat TOP fish but.CLAUSE eat NEG cat TOP fish
The cat kills the fish, but the cat does not eat the fish.
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by shimobaatar »

:con: Project Steppe:

1) The cat and the man ate.
Utsamti sepeli eŋo sepenotli.
utsam-ti se-pe-li eŋ-o se-pe-not-li
cat(1)-NOM(1) 3s.NOM-PST-eat person(5)-NOM(5) 3s.NOM-PST-and-eat
The cat ate and the man ate.

2) The cat killed and ate the fish.
Utsamti mon umosi tanasepesinni sujsepenotli.
utsam-ti mon um-osi tana-se-pe-sinni suj-se-pe-not-li
cat(1)-NOM(1) CAUSEE fish(5)-OBL(5) CAUS-3s.NOM-PST-die 3s.ABS-3s.NOM-PST-and-eat
The cat killed the fish and ate it.

3) The cat ate the fish, but so did the man.
Utsamti umsepeli eŋo umsepenotli.
utsam-ti um-se-pe-li eŋ-o um-se-pe-not-li
cat(1)-NOM(1) fish(5)[ABS(5)]-3s.NOM-PST-eat person(5)-NOM(5) fish(5)[ABS(5)]-3s.NOM-PST-and-eat
The cat and the man ate the fish.

4) The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it.
Utsamti mon umosi tanasepesinni posujsepenotli.
utsam-ti mon um-osi tana-se-pe-sinni po-suj-se-pe-not-li
cat(1)-NOM(1) CAUSEE fish(5)-OBL(5) CAUS-3s.NOM-PST-die NEG-3s.ABS-3s.NOM-PST-and-eat
The cat killed the fish, but didn't eat it.
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Imralu »

What is clausal and what is phrasal in the original sentences doesn't necessarily end up that way in other languages.

:con: :png: Wena:

In Wena, clausal and phrasal matters little for the choice of words. Gwe "and at the same time" indicates simultaneity and do "and then" indicates sequentiality. Mye "but" generally indicates simultaneity but can be joined with do to make mye do "but then". When gwe links clauses together, it may be followed by yu (C) (or zyu (GEN.C)).

1.
  • Buzi gwe hu i mo.
    cat and.simultaneously man COP consume.AG
    The cat and the man ate (at the same time).
(Phrasal - simultaneous)

2.
  • Buzi e ngu do mo zyi gwi.
    cat COP kill.AG then eat.AG GEN.DEF.E fish
    The cat killed and then ate the fish.
(Phrasal - sequential)

3. I didn't really know why this has "but" so I translated it the way I felt seemed most realistic.
  • Buzi e mo zyi gwi u hu i ndwazu.
    cat COP consume.AG GEN.DEF.E fish ADV man COP do/be.the.same.AG
    The cat ate the fish with the man doing the same.
(Clausal - does not have the conflicting meaning of "but" but subordinates it. U could be replaced by gwe or mye if you want a normal "and" or "but" meaning.)

4.
  • Buzi e ngu mye do ze mo zyi gwi.
    cat COP kill but then NEG.E consume.AG GEN.DEF.E fish
    The cat killed and then didn't eat the fish.
(Phrasal - sequential)
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Ebon »

Nereifa:

1. The cat and the man ate. (and - phrasal)
Avu daiba sui nafirida suyirem.
[ˈa.vu ˈdaj.ba suj ˈna.fi.ɾi.da suˈji.ɾɛm]
past_aux.3PL eat.PART DEF cat_and DEF_person.

2. The cat killed and ate the fish. (and - clausal)
Avunon thara sui nafiri, daiba so naizeor.
[aˈvu.nɔn ˈθa.ɾa suj naˈfi.ɾi ˈdaj.ba suj ˈnaj.zeɔɾ]
past_aux.* kill.PART DEF cat eat.PART DEF.ACC fish.ACC

*I'm not sure how to gloss this. It's a verb form used to connect sentences with the same subject.

3. The cat ate the fish, but so did the man. (but - phrasal)
Avu daiba sui nafiritsi suyirem so naizeor.
[ˈa.vu ˈdaj.ba suj ˈna.fi.ɾi.tsi suˈji.ɾɛm suj ˈnaj.zeɔɾ]
past_aux.3PL eat.PART DEF cat_but_also DEF_person DEF.ACC fish.ACC

The -tsi suffix conveys that both do it, but also expresses surprise that the noun after it would do such a thing. The -da suffix used above just lists nouns with no such connotation.

You can mix the two as well.
Avu daiba sui nafiritsi sui thaskeda suyirem so naizeor.
The cat and the man ate the fish, but so did the dog.
(I tried and failed to find a way to squeeze "but so did the dog" between cat and man.)

4. The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it. (but - clausal)
Avunon thara sui nafiri zae, sadaiba so naizeor.
[aˈvu.nɔn ˈθa.ɾa suj naˈfi.ɾi zæ, saˈdaj.ba suj ˈnaj.zeɔɾ]
past_aux.* kill.PART DEF cat but, eat.PART.NEG DEF.ACC fish.ACC
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Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Imralu »

:tan: Swahili:

1.
Paka na mwanaume walikula.
paka na mwanaume wa-li-ku-l-a
cat(9) COM man(1) 2-PST-EXT-eat-Ø

The cat and the man ate. (and - phrasal)


2.
Paka alimuua samaki akamla.
paka a-li-mu-u-a samaki a-ka-m-l-a
cat(9) 1-PST-1-kill-Ø fish(9) 1-SUBSEQ-1-eat-Ø

The cat killed and ate the fish. (and - clausal)

3.
Paka alimla samaki, lakini mwanaume pia alimla.
paka a-li-m-l-a samaki | lakini mwanaume pia a-li-m-l-a
cat(9) 1-PST-1-eat-Ø fish | but man(1) also 1-PST-1-eat-Ø

The cat ate the fish, but so did the man. (but - phrasal -- can't do this directly in English)

4.
Paka alimuua samaki, lakini hakumla.
paka a-li-mu-u-a samaki | lakini ha-ku-m-l-a
cat(9) 1-PST-1-kill-Ø fish | but NEG.1-NEG.PST-1-eat-Ø

The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it. (but - clausal)
Last edited by Imralu on 28 Sep 2017 01:26, edited 1 time in total.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Iyionaku
mayan
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Posts: 2102
Joined: 25 May 2014 14:17

Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Yélian

An'avár èn a'broya yimuyʻi.
[ɐnɐˈvaːd̟ ɛn ɐˈbɾoːʃɐ ɕɨˈmuʃʔi]
DEF.ANIM=man and DEF.ANIM=cat PST-eat-3PL
The cat and the man ate.

An'avár yiolket èpa yimuyet an'icatyer.
[ɐnɐˈvaːd̟ ˈɕɪ̯olkət ˈɛpɐ ɕɨˈmuːʃət ɐnɨˈkaːt͡ʃəd̟]
DEF.ANIM=cat PST-kill-3SG and PST-eat-3SG DEF.ANIM=fish
The cat killed and ate the fish.

An'avár yimuyet an'icatyer, cut a'broya tem pouyimuyet.
[ɐnɐˈvaːd̟ ɕɨˈmuːʃət ɐnɨˈkaːt͡ʃəd̟, kʉt ɐˈbɾoːʃɐ təm pɔʊ̯ɕɨˈmuːʃət]
DEF.ANIM=cat PST-eat-3SG DEF.ANIM=fish, but DEF.ANIM=man 3SG.MASC.OBL also-PST-eat-3SG
The cat ate the fish, but so did the man.

An'avár yiolket cut ciyimuyet an'icatyer.
[ɐnɐˈvaːd̟ ˈɕɪ̯ɔlkət‿ʉt‿ɨɕɨˈmuːʃət ɐnɨˈkaːt͡ʃəd̟]
DEF.ANIM=cat PST-kill-3SG but NEG-PST-eat-3SG DEF.ANIM=fish
The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Iyionaku
mayan
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Posts: 2102
Joined: 25 May 2014 14:17

Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Caelian

Vatsen ëz bordyek simüsertal.
[vatˈʒɛn əs bɔɾˈdʲɛk ʒimyʒɛɾˈtʰal]
cat.NOM and man.NOM PST-eat.3PL
The cat and the man ate.

Vatsen katsuid sikülkim pëc simüstil.
[vatˈʒɛn kʰatˈʒʊɪ̯d ʒikʰylˈkʰim pʰəç ʒimyʃˈtʰil]
cat fish.ACC PST-kill.3SG>3SG amd PST-eat.3SG>3SG
The cat killed and ate the fish.

Vatsen katsuid simüstil, fö kyët bordyek.
[vatˈʒɛn kʰatˈʒʊɪ̯d ʒimyʃˈtʰil, βø kʲət bɔɾˈdʲɛk]
cat.NOM fish.ACC PST-eat.3SG>3SG, also but man.NOM
The cat ate the fish, but so did the man.

Vatsen katsuid sikülkim wej kë simüstil.
[vatˈʒɛn kʰatˈʒʊɪ̯d ʒikʰylˈkʰim wɛj kʰə ʒimyʃˈtʰil]
cat.NOM fish.ACC PST-kill.3SG>3SG but NEG PST-eat.3SG>3SG
The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it.

(By the way, the third sentence is not only ungrammatical in English, but also illogical - the fish cannot be eaten by both the cat and the man.)
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
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Threr
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Posts: 98
Joined: 03 Nov 2014 20:10

Re: phrasal and clausal conjunctions

Post by Threr »

:con: Deyryck

1. The cat and the man ate. (and - phrasal)

Kata tavèdlapa sên da
cat and+eat+PAST man GOAL:none

2. The cat killed and ate the fish. (and - clausal)

Lûhama kéno katatapa vèdla'
fish kill cat+and+PAST eat+GOAL:none

3. The cat ate the fish, but so did the man. (but - phrasal -- can't do this directly in English)

Lûhama kata anojvèdla sên a
Lûhama kata anoj tavèdla sên a

fish cat but-MARI+eat man GOAL:none
fish cat but-MARI and+eat man GOAL:none (avoids confusion)

4. The cat killed the fish, but did not eat it. (but - clausal)

Lûhama kéno katanûjpa vèdla'
fish kill cat+NEG-MARI+PAST eat+GOAL:none
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