Locative Adpositional Phrases

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Micamo
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Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Micamo »

How do various languages handle locative adpositional phrases in the following three syntactic positions:

:con: Project Charcoal:

Predicative:

soibí égisápuísegán dohínko
soibí égi-sápu-í-segán dohínko
table sit_on-hole-APPL-RECPST.COMP cat
The cat is under the table.

OR

soibí hi sápu égisegán dohínko
soibí hi sápu égi-segán dohínko
table it hole POST:3n sit_on-RECPST.COMP cat
The cat is under the table.

Adnominal:

soibí hi sápu kaín dohínko kíonsegán
soibí hi sápu kaín dohínko kíon-segán
table it hole POST:3n cat rattle-RECPST.COMP
The cat under the table purred.

Adverbial:

pówa ekésegán dohínko soibí hi sápu caín
pówa eké-segán dohínko soibí hi sápu caín
mouse find-RECPST.COMP cat table it hole POST:3n
The cat found the mouse under the table.
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Pirka »

:rus:

Кошка под столом.
кошк-а под стол-ом
cat-NOM.FEM under table-INST.MASC

Кошка мурлыкала под столом.
кошк-а мурлык-а-ла под стол-ом
cat-NOM.FEM purr-IPFV-PST.FEM under table-INST.MASC

Кошка нашла мышь под столом.
кошк-а наш-ла мыш-ь под стол-ом
cat-NOM.FEM find.PFV-PST.FEM mouse-ACC.FEM under table-INST.MASC

:con: Taurahe

Dini nani ta-walogo yakčalge.
dini nani ta-walogo kčl-iao-ge
cat chin PREP-table be_in-IPFV-G2

Wago nani ta-walogo kučala gure dini yammigo.
wago nani ta-walogo kčl-uaa-Ø guri-e dini 'mn-iØØ-go
G1 chin PREP-table be_in-REL.PFV-3 throat-G1.POSS cat rumble-PFV-G1

Dina čo'čo yakčego nani ta-walogo.
dini-a čo'čo 'kč-iØe-go nani ta-walogo
cat-ERG mouse find-COMPL-G1 chin PREP-table
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Chagen »

Well, here we go:

:con:Pazmat:

(1) Tuuc arbastiidh esdcjid.
cat table-LOC under-be.3RD.SING.NEU

(2) Tuucuux arbastiidh ezja na blezjid.
cat-ERG table-LOC under-be.PST.3RD.SING.NEU REL whimper-PST-3RD.SING.NEU

(3) Tuuc Bawaos eds arbast afexzjid.
cat mouse-ACC under table find-PST-3RD.SING.NEU
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by DanH34 »

Hopefully, you're more interested in the grammar than the vocab and precise cases, since I don't have the vocab and I'm having trouble with 'under'. But anyway, to answer your question using a variation on my standard test-clause:

:eng:

1) The woman is in the shop.
2) The woman in the shop spoke.
3) The woman saw the man in the shop.

:con: Zidhgebzhail - In which it's all about the placement of the 'hi-'.

1) aza ha-limzwouth.
az-Ø-a ha-limz-wouth
woman-ABS-SG.F COP-shop-INESSIVE.SG.M
Woman is in shop.

2) aza gi-limzwouth gAizhlon.
az-Ø-a gi-limz-wouth g-Aizhlo-n
woman-ABS-SG.F COP.REL_PST-shop-INESSIVE.SG.M PST-speak-SIMPLE
Woman who was in shop spoke.

3) azila ozef gi-limzwouth gAin.
az-il-a oz-ef gi-limz-wouth g-Ai-n
woman-ERG-SG.F man-ACC.SG.M COP.REL_PST-shop-INESSIVE.SG.M PST-see-SIMPLE
Woman saw man who was in shop.

'COP2' is what I refer to as the 'second copula' (because I couldn't find out the correct term when I came up with it); I've recently learned that it's actually what I think is called a relative pronoun, but it seems to me to behave more like a copula (it, in fact, behaves almost identically to the copula as far as I can tell), so I've kept the original definition. Incidentally, it's also used to form de-restrictivised adjectives ('aza rraetysa' = 'beautiful woman' vs 'aza hi-rraetysa' = 'woman who is beautiful').

Edit: Changing ' COP2' to 'COP.REL', and adding tense to the copulae in (2) and (3).
Last edited by DanH34 on 30 Jan 2013 23:25, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by ol bofosh »

Pa felis etheyt pa dhovap uda.
/pa ˈfe.ɭis ˈe.ʈejt pa ˈɖo.vap ˈu.da/
pa felis ethey-t pa dhovap uda
DEF cat exist-PRS DEF table under

The cat is under the table.

Pa felis ethey dhovap uda xurewk.
/pa ˈfe.ɭis ˈe.ʈej pa ˈɖo.vap ˈu.da ˈxu.ɾewk/
pa felis ethey dhovap uda xurew-k
DEF cat to.exist table under purr-PST

The cat under the table purred.

Pa felis aceyk pa mus pa dhovap uda.
/pa ˈfe.ɭis ˈa.ʈʂejk pa mus pa ˈɖo.vap ˈu.da/
pa felis acey-k pa mus pa dhovap uda
DEF cat find-PST DEF mouse DEF table under

The cat found the mouse under the table.
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Salmoneus »

The first would be translated:
Kojùn baula rùnta
weasel within floor
The weasel is under the table [lit. 'within the floor' - 'baula' is used for things within a delimned space, even if the boundaries are not continuous. 'rùnta' is a floor unit - above the solid floor are moveable floor units of different heights, which can be rearranged to create daising effects for different social functions, and some of which are used as tables. This assumes that a 'coffee-table'-like table is meant - alternatively, it could be a table projecting from a wall, in which case another word would be used (this would be a shelf, or more poetically a ledge, even if it were large enough to eat off). If it were a shelf-table, obviously 'baula' could not be used either, as a thing beneath a shelf does not delimn the volume beneath it in the way a table does.]

The second:
Kojùn baula rùnta, rabìruka
weasel within floor, 3A-purr-UPRIVER
The weasel under the table purred [a 'kojùn' is not actually a weasel, it's a type of monotreme of more or less mustelid appearance and function. When pleased, it emits a chirp or purr.]


As can be seen, there is no difference here between predicative and attributive. Instead, there is a tendency for newer information to come at the end, and older information to come nearer the beginning.

The third sentence is harder to translate, because Rawàng Ata does not allow this sort of adverbial phrase. Instead, a translator might pick which mammal is the topic of discussion, and front that, so either:

Kojùnya rataja tala jnuma, baula rùnta mèk
weasel-ERG 3A-look_at-UPRIVER see-UPRIVER mouse-ACC, within floor when
The weasel finds the mouse, when the weasel is under the table

OR:
Jnuma kojùnya rataja tala, baula rùnta mèk
mouse-ACC, weasel-ERG 3A-look_at-UPRIVER see-UPRIVER, within floor when
The mouse was found by the weasel when the mouse was under the table

[In both cases, 'mèk' is employed because the alternatives would mean 'the weasel that finds the mouse is under the table' and 'the mouse that the weasel finds is under the table' - acceptable, but not exactly the emphasis that was intended]

If the translator felt that what had already been established was the action itself, they would translate it instead:

Rakutajun tala jnu kojùnya, baula rùnta
3A-CONCRETE-look_at-CIRC see-UPRIVER mouse weasel-ERG, within floor
The finding of the mouse by the weasel was under the table. [This is far more natural in Rawàng Ata than the English translation suggests]

However, in most cases a non-pedantic translator would simply say:
Kojùnya baula rùnta, rataja tala jnuma
weasel-ERG within floor, 3A-look_at-UPRIVER see-UPRIVER mouse-ACC
The weasel under the table found the mouse

This unfairly suggests that we already knew the weasel was under the table, but is enough for most normal purposes, I should have thought.

There remain various ambiguities (eg 'the weasel under the table found the mouse' could be translated 'weasels under tables find mice'; and there is no overt definite article, so if both subject and object absolutely must be definite some other particle will be required ('the aforesaid' or 'your', perhaps)) which could if necessary be clarified with additional particles.

Note that the translations are slightly more complicated than necessary due to the lack of a word for 'find' - instead, a serial construction, 'look at and see' is used.
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Micamo »

DanH34 wrote:'COP2' is what I refer to as the 'second copula' (because I couldn't find out the correct term when I came up with it); I've recently learned that it's actually what I think is called a relative pronoun, but it seems to me to behave more like a copula (it, in fact, behaves almost identically to the copula as far as I can tell), so I've kept the original definition. Incidentally, it's also used to form de-restrictivised adjectives ('aza rraetysa' = 'beautiful woman' vs 'aza hi-rraetysa' = 'woman who is beautiful').
Is it used with other verbs in relative clauses? Like "The man I saw yesterday"? If not, I'd analyze it as a suppletive form of the copula for a Relative Mood, and gloss it as COP.REL.
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by DanH34 »

Micamo wrote:Is it used with other verbs in relative clauses? Like "The man I saw yesterday"? If not, I'd analyze it as a suppletive form of the copula for a Relative Mood, and gloss it as COP.REL.
It's not used in forming relative clauses; in fact, I started using it in order to remove the need for relative/dependant clauses in certain constructions. I'm pretty sure that it can't be used to 'connect' clauses.

Thanks for the help, Micamo. Updating my entry in this thread now.

Edit: I've also just realised that this copula also needs tense. Thanks again.

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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Xing »

:con: Wakeu

E nea ta wara ki puili o ta kelu.
PRS be_located SG cat LOC under GEN SG table
"The cat is under the table."

Ko ruko ta wara ki puili o ta kelu.
PFV purr SG cat LOC under GEN SG table
"The cat under the table purred."

Ko eika a ta wara ta uppu ki puili o ta kelu.
PFV find ERG SG car SG mouse LOC under SG table
"The cat found the mouse under the table."

Regular prepositions can be used (1) adverbially, and (2) adnominally, but they can't by themselves stand as the predicate in a clause.

But sometimes verb phrases are used to express what is expressed by prepositional phrases in English, and such verb phrases can be used in all three ways - as predicates, adnominally and adverbially.
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Omzinesý »

DanH34 wrote: 2) aza gi-limzwouth gAizhlon.
az-Ø-a gi-limz-wouth g-Aizhlo-n
woman-ABS-SG.F COP.REL_PST-shop-INESSIVE.SG.M PST-speak-SIMPLE
Woman who was in shop spoke.

3) azila ozef gi-limzwouth gAin.
az-il-a oz-ef gi-limz-wouth g-Ai-n
woman-ERG-SG.F man-ACC.SG.M COP.REL_PST-shop-INESSIVE.SG.M PST-see-SIMPLE
Woman saw man who was in shop.

'COP2' is what I refer to as the 'second copula' (because I couldn't find out the correct term when I came up with it); I've recently learned that it's actually what I think is called a relative pronoun, but it seems to me to behave more like a copula (it, in fact, behaves almost identically to the copula as far as I can tell), so I've kept the original definition. Incidentally, it's also used to form de-restrictivised adjectives ('aza rraetysa' = 'beautiful woman' vs 'aza hi-rraetysa' = 'woman who is beautiful').

Edit: Changing ' COP2' to 'COP.REL', and adding tense to the copulae in (2) and (3).
Interesting.
The phrase that begins with the COP can be inflected in tense. Does it have all the inflection the corresponding verbal copula has.

If it had no tense, I would say it is an attribute marker that forms similar dependent phrases to "of" in English. But if the attribute has tense and is therefore more or less verb-y, the term relative copula can be quite good.
'copula' does not need to be a verb. Many languages use pronouns as copulas.
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by DanH34 »

Omzinesý wrote: ... Does it have all the inflection the corresponding verbal copula has.
Tense-wise, yes, although it can't be negated as elegantly.
... 'copula' does not need to be a verb...
That's reassuring to know, since both of Zidhgebzhail's copulae are most definitely not verbs (verbs have obligatory aspect marking, copulae have only tense [although the dummy verb can be used to add an aspect]; verbs are [almost] always clause-final, copulae cannot be). I find myself with little choice but to consider them a totally separate class of word.
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by H.Á. »

Halvad chélæs sísk.
[hæ̀l.ʋɐ xè.lœs sɪə̯sk]
cat-ABS table-SUBESS to_be.3.SG
halvad-0 chéla-æs sísk

= The cat is under the table.

Chélæs halvad rornuvpak.
[xè.lœs hæ̀l.ʋɐ ɾòɾ.nʏʊ̯.pʰɑ́k]
table-SUBESS cat-ABS purr-ATEL-PST-SG-3
chéla-æs halvad-0 rorn-uv-p-a-k

= The cat under the table purred.

Halvadog biukumu chélæs mxórpak.
[hæ̀l.ʋa.dɔ́ bɨ̀.ʰkʏ.mú xè.lœs mxɔ̀ʊ̯ɾ.pɐk]
cat-ERG mouse-ACC table-SUBESS find\PST-PST-SG-3
halvad-og biukum-u chéla-æs mxór-p-a-k

= The cat found the mouse under the table.
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Ossicone »

:con: Uskra:

Niri nima nai mitunur takumani.
nir-i ni-m-a nai mitun-ur takum-ani
cat-DEF.A 3A-be-NPST en table-DEF.A sole-OPSS
The cat is under the table.
"The cat is on the table's sole."

Niri nai mitunur takumani nitika matru.
nir-i nai mitun-ur takum-ani ni-tik-a matru
cat-DEF.A en table-DEF.LOC sole-OPSS 3A-give-NPST love
The cat under the table purred.
"The cat on the table's sole is purring."

Niri nikum skai amita um mitunur takumani.
nir-i ni-k-um skai am-ita um mitun-ur takum-ani
cat-DEF.A 3A.OP-have-PST find fish-DEF.P at table-DEF.LOC sole-OPSS
The cat found the fish under the table.
"The cat found the fish at the table's sole."

-----

*"Sole" here refers to the bottom of one's foot. Using the word for foot would indicate standing next to the bottom of something but not actually below it. (Like standing next to a tree.)

*The gloss "en" is used since the meaning is closer to Spanish "en" and can be used for English "in" or "on."
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Aseca »

Caikapam stalampave (sati).
Caikapa.m stalan-pav-e (s-ati)
Cat.SBJ(n.sg) table-under.AT(n.sg) (be-3sg)
The cat is under the table.


Pavanstalancaikapam krahuta.
Pavan-Stalan-Caikapa.m kra-h-uta
Table-Below-Cat.SBJ animal-utter-3sg.past
The cat under the table purred. (compound)

More relative:
Stalanpave sati caikapam krahuta.
Stalan-pav.e s-ati caikapa-m krah-uta.
Table-under.AT(n.sg) bexist.3sg cat-SBJ(n.sg) purr-3sg.past
The cat that is under the table it purred


Caikapam stalampavena kalapam vidaruta.
Caikapa.m stalan-pav.ena kalapam vidar-uta.
Cat.SBJ(n.sg) table-under.LOC(n.sg) mouse.ACC(f.sg) locate-3sg.past
The cat found the mouse (by) under the table.

More casual:
Caikapam pavanstalankalapam vidaruta.
Caikapa.m stalan-pav.ena kalapam vidar-uta.
Cat.SBJ(n.sg) table-under.LOC(n.sg) mouse.ACC(f.sg) locate-3sg.past
The cat found the under the table mouse.

Or
Caikapam stalampave suta kalapam vidaruta.
Caikapa.m stalan-pav.e s-uta kalapam vidar-uta.
Cat.SBJ(n.sg) table-under.AT(n.sg) bexist-3sg.past mouse.ACC(f.sg) locate-3sg.past
The cat found the mouse that was under the table.

Normally the mouse would be kalapan (n.root), kalapanum (n.accusative) but given mice are too cute to handle, they are given a feminine gender instead - kalapus (f.root), kalapam (f.acc)!
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Lao Kou »

Image Géarthnuns:

Chau teshers la chau kfasharsaub köi mal.
[tʃɔ 'tɛʃɛɾs 'la tʃɔ kfa'ʃaɾsɔb ˌkøj 'mal]
DEF cat-NOM AUX.PRES DEF table-POST under be.located
The cat is under the table.

Chau teshers chau kfasharsaub köi lé vurun.
[tʃɔ 'tɛʃɛɾs tʃɔ kfa'ʃaɾsɔb ˌkøj le 'vuɾun]
DEF cat-NOM DEF table-POST under AUX.PAST purr
The cat under the table purred.
or
Chau teshers lé chau kfasharsaub köi vurun.
[tʃɔ 'tɛʃɛɾs 'le tʃɔ kfa'ʃaɾsɔb ˌkøj 'vuɾun]
DEF cat- NOM AUX.PAST DEF table-POST under purr
The cat under the table purred. (or The cat purred under the table.)

Do the Géarthçins care here? Not especially. (Though the former would be the answer to "Which cat purred?", without that caveat, the latter feels a little nicer.)

Chau teshers lé chí sölsít chau kfasharsaub köi zvaun.
[tʃɔ 'tɛʃɛɾs 'le tʃi 'sølsit tʃɔ kfa'ʃaɾsɔb 'køj 'zvɔn]
DEF cat-NOM AUX.PAST DEF mouse-ACC DEF table-POST under find
The cat found the mouse under the table.
Last edited by Lao Kou on 15 Mar 2016 15:35, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by prettydragoon »

:con: Rireinutire

The cat is under the table.
kasi henono arara yakava:
kasi heno.no ara.ra ya.ka.va
cat.NOM table.GEN under.INE be.PRS.SENS


The cat under the table purred.
henono arara yake kasi ñuñukiva:
heno.no ara.ra ya.ke kasi ñuñu.ki.va
table.GEN under.INE be.PRESP cat.NOM purr.PST.SENS

The cat that was under the table purred.
or:
henoarapiñi kasi ñuñukiva:
heno.ara.piñi kasi ñuñu.ki.va
table.under.doer cat.NOM purr.PST.SENS

The under-table-being cat purred.

The cat found the mouse under the table.
kasi suhamu henono arara retekive:
kasi suha.mu heno.no ara.ra rete.ki.ve
cat.NOM mouse.ACC table.GEN under.INE find.PST.HSY
Image
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What is this, how you say, Rireinutire?
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Lao Kou »

Image Japoné語

Le 猫 oué il ga est au-de下 de la 卓子 ni.
Le néco oué il ga est au-dechita de la taquechie ni.
[lœ̈ ˈneko we i gɔ e ˌodʃi̥ˈtɔ dla takœ̈ʃi ni]
DEF.m cat.m TOP 3SG.m NOM be-PRES under DEF table LOC
The cat is under the table.

Le 猫 oué au-de下 de la 卓子 ni il ga ronronnetéta.
Le néco oué au-dechita de la taquechie ni il ga ronronnetéta.
[lœ̈ ˈneko we ˌodʃi̥ˈtɔ dla takœ̈ʃi ni i gɔ ˈʁõʊ̃ʁɔnˌtetɔ]
DEF.m cat.m TOP under DEF table LOC 3SG.m NOM purr-PROGPAST
The cat under the table purred.

Le 猫 oué il ga 見付quéta la 鼠 au au-de下 de la 卓子 dé.
Le néco oué il ga mitsouquéta la nésouris au au-dechita de la taquechie dé.
[lœ̈ ˈneko we i gɔ ˌmɪtsʊˈketɔ la ˈnezuʁi o ˌodʃi̥ˈtɔ dla takœ̈ʃi de]
DEF.m cat.m TOP 3SG.m NOM find-PAST DEF mouse ACC under DEF table LOC
The cat found the mouse under the table.
Last edited by Lao Kou on 11 Jun 2016 17:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Iyionaku »

:deu: German
Spoiler:
Die Katze ist unter dem Tisch.
[diː ˈkʰatsə ʔɪst ˈʔʊntʰɐ deːm tʰɪʃ]
DEF.FEM cat.NOM be.3SG below DEF.MASC.DAT table.DAT
The cat is under the table.

Die Katze unter dem Tisch hat geschnurrt.
[diː ˈkʰatsə ˈʔʊntʰɐ deːm tʰɪʃ hat gəˈʃnʊɐ̯t]
DEF.FEM cat.NOM below DEF.MASC.DAT table AUX.3SG purr.PP
The cat under the table purred.

Die Katze hat die Maus unter dem Tisch gefunden.
[diː ˈkʰatsə hat diː maʊ̯s ˈʔʊntʰɐ deːm tʰɪʃ gəˈfʊndən]
DEF.FEM Cat.NOM AUX.3SG DEF.FEM.ACC mouse.ACC below DEF.MASC.DAT table.DAT find.PP
The cat found the mouse under the table.
:fra: French
Spoiler:
Le chat est sous la table.
[lə ʃat‿e su la ˈtablə]
DEF.MASC cat be.3SG under DEF.FEM table
The cat is under the table.

Le chat sous la table a ronronné.
[lə ʃa su la ˈtablə a ʁɔ̃ʁɔ̃ˈne]
DEF.MASC cat under DEF.FEM table AUX.3SG purr.PP
The cat under the table purred.

Le chat a trouvé la souris sous la table.
[lə ʃa a tʁuˈve la suˈʁi su la ˈtablə]
DEF.MASC cat AUX.3SG find.PP DEF.FEM mouse below DEF.FEM table
The cat found the mouse under the table.
:con: Yélian
Spoiler:
An'avár bit upan supar. That sounds terrible.
[anaˈvaːɾ bɪt ˈuːpɐn ˈsuːpɐɾ]
DEF.ANIM-cat be.3SG.ANIM under table
The cat is under the table.

An'avár upan supar yiruret.
[anaˈvaːɾ ˈuːpɐn ˈsuːpɐɾ ʃiˈrurɛt]
DEF.ANIM-cat under table PST-purr-3SG
The cat under the table purred.

An'avar yisandet a'pimi upan supar.
[anaˈvaːɾ ʃiˈsandɛt aˈpimi ˈuːpɐn ˈsuːpɐɾ]
DEF.ANIM-cat PST-find-3SG DEF.ANIM-mouse under table
The cat found the mouse under the table.
:con: Caelian
Spoiler:
Vatsen zapjuges hap byäis.
[vatˈʃɛn zapjuˈgɛʃ hap bʲæɪ̯ʃ]
cat.NOM table.SUPE PART_OPP COP.3SG>3SG
The cat is under the table.

Vatsen zapjuges hap sirürrat/sirürrit.
[vatˈʃɛn zapjuˈgɛʃ hap ʒirʏˈrat/ʒirʏˈrɪt]
cat.NOM table.SUPE PART_OPP PST-purr.3SG>INTR/PST-purr.3SG>3SG
The cat under the table purred.

Both verb forms are possible: The first one is an intransitive form that treats "zapjuges" as an adverbial of the nominative and means "The cat under the table purred, not any other", the second one treats "zapjuges" as the highest-priority object and therefore let it inflect the verb; that would mean "The cat purred unter the table, not anywhere else". As the differences in word order and such are much smaller than in English, both forms would mostly be interchangeable.

Vatsen nibbuneng sibürgir zapjuges hap.
[vatˈʃɛn nibuˈnɛŋ ʒibʏɾˈgɪɾ zapjuˈgɛʃ hap]
cat.NOM mouse.ACC PST-find.3SG>3SG table.SUPE PART_OPP
The cat found the mouse under the table.
:con: Anto
Spoiler:
Njaw rucho shu.
[ɲaʊ̯ ˈɹuχɔː ʃuː]
TOP=cat table under
The cat is under the table.

Njaw rucho shu rr ton.
[ɲaʊ̯ ˈɹuχɔː ʃuː ˈɹːʔɹː tʰɔn]
TOP=cat table under purr-PST 3.ANIM
The cat under the table purred.

Njaw mawsa findefin ton rucho shu.
[ɲaʊ̯ ˈmaʊ̯sa ˈfɪntɛfɪn tʰɔn ˈɹuχɔː ʃuː]
TOP=cat mouse find-PST 3.ANIM table under
The cat found the mouse under the table.
:con: Utseech
Spoiler:
De natş is ûtan tisk.
[də nɑtʃ ɪs ʊ˞tan tɪsk]
DEF cat be.3SG under-DEF.OBL table
The cat is under the table.

De natş ûtan tisk haen geshûrren.
[də nɑtʃ ʊ˞tan tɪsk hɑə̯n gəˈsʰʊ˞ɹən]
DEF cat under-DEF.OBL table AUX.3SG purr.PP
The cat under the table purred.

De natş haen gefûdech de bäwech ûtan tisk.
[də nɑtʃ hɑə̯n gəˈfʊ˞dɛç də ˈbæwɛç ʊ˞tan tɪsk]
DEF cat AUX.3SG find.PP DEF mouse under-DEF.OBL table
The cat found the mouse under the table.
:con: Bath'aso
Spoiler:
Xadsh bizh nodzhlutuzh.
[xɑdʂ bɪʐ nɔ͡dʐlutɯʐ]
cat-ABS under table-INDR
The cat is under the table.

Khek břn xadsh bizh nodzhlutuzh.
[kʰɛk br̝n xɑdʂ bɪʐ nɔ͡dʐlutɯʐ]
PERF purr cat.ABS under table-INDR
The cat under the table purred.

Khek shexprizh xadshez tshimb bizh nodzhlutuzh.
[kʰɛk ˈʂɛxpriʐ xɑdʂɛz ͡tʂɪmb bɪʐ nɔ͡dʐlutɯʐ]
PERF find cat-ERG mouse-ABS under table-INDR
The cat found the mouse under the table.
:con: Paatherye
Spoiler:
Paatherye uses the preposition "per" that marks horizontal movements onto something:

- Locative: on top of it
- Allative: onto it
- Ablative: under it

It will only be glossed as PREP, so I'm telling before to avoid confusion.

म गथ आज़ पेड़ मि धीनिंदैण.
Ma gatha ās per mi dhīnimdayn.

[ma ˈɣatʰa aːs per mi θiːˈnimðaɪ̯n] (to women)
[ma ˈgatʰ aːt͡s pəɾ mi dʰiːˈnɪmdaɪ̯n] (to men)
DEF.FEM.NOM cat.NOM be.3SG.FEM PREP DEF.MASC.ABL table.ABL
The cat is under the table.

म गथ पेड़ मि धीनिंदैण खरीनेज़.
Ma gatha per mi dhīnimdayn kharīnes.

[ma ˈɣatʰa per mi θiːˈnimðaɪ̯n kʰaˈriːnes] (to women)
[ma ˈgatʰ pəɾ mi dʰiːˈnɪmdaɪ̯n kʰariːnet͡s] (to men)
DEF.FEM.NOM cat.NOM PREP DEF.MASC.ABL table.ABL purr.PST.3SG
The cat under the table purred.

म गथ ध्रीपून मा मूसण पेड़ मि धीनिंदैण.
Ma gatha dhripūna mā mūsan per mi dhīnimdayn.

[ma ˈɣatʰa θriˈpuːna maː ˈmuːsan per mi θiːˈnimðaɪ̯n] (to women)
[ma ˈgatʰ dʰriˈpuːn maː ˈmuːʒan pəɾ mi dʰiːˈnɪmdaɪ̯n] (to men)
DEF.FEM.NOM cat.NOM find.PST.3SG.FEM DEF.FEM.ACC mouse.ACC PREP DEF.MASC.ABL table.ABL
The cat found the mouse under the table.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
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elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3028
Joined: 22 Nov 2014 04:48

Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by elemtilas »

:con: Queranaran

uwe-ata-marhuryosteyan dro-lostun-mesayanacu
under-LOC-table ABS-that(pos.)-cat
(Under the table (is) this cat.)

The cat is under the table.

versen-dro-lostun-uwe-ata-marhuryosteyan-mesayanacu rhrondrhrondwem
PAST-ABS-that(pos.)-under-LOC-table-cat purr-IMPF
(Yester this under the table cat purring.)

The cat under the table was purring. (Purring is definitely not a momentary action, so the aspect has to be some kind of continual.)

uwe-ata-marhuryosteyan tugano-latatariyes versen-sa-lostun-mesayanacu sacanawis
under-LOC-table that(neg.)-mouse-ACC PAST-ERG-cat find-PERF
(Under the table that mouse yester this cat finds.)

The cat found the mouse under the table. (Here "under the table" and "find" bracket the protagonists; this almost makes the former a kind of presentential marker which indicates that it is the action of the sentence itself that is under the table, rather than the actors specifically.)

tugano-uwe-ata-marhuryosteyan-latatariyes versen-sa-lostun-mesayanacu sacanawis
that(neg.)-under-LOC-table-mouse-ACC PAST-ERG-cat find-PERF
(That under the table mouse yester this cat finds.)

The cat found the mouse under the table. (Here, "under the table" is incorporated within the object phrase, indicating that it is the mouse whose location is under the table.)

A nicety of distinction brought about by laws of separability and incorporability.

Note also that a Daine can distinguish attitude by the laterality of the demonstrative pronoun he chooses to use. Daine share in common with Men & Teyor and even Hotai a disdain for mice. They are, after all pests. Cats everyone likes because, well, they are hunters and will readily control the mouse population if properly treated. Tugano literally means "that nearby on the right" and has a slightly negative connotation of the crinkle your nose in mild disgust sort; while lostun literally means "that nearby on the left" and has a slightly more positive connotation about what it modifies.

Queranaran has no specific copular verb (like to be in English). Several verbs may behave as copulas, but generally speaking, one simply places the predicates together to form a copular sentence. Note also that there is a distinction of ergativity to be made when the subject of an intransitive verb or copula meets certain volitional and motive criteria. The subject in this case is a volitional agent, but the quality of the action is sessile and thus the subject will be in the absolutive case, as would a non-volitional subject. Had the cat been walking, his action would be both volitional and motive and thus he would be in the ergative case.

Queranaran also has two broad declensions of nouns. There is a native type and a Teyoran type which was borrowed into the language along with many Teyoran words ages and ages ago. In the former declension, nouns all have s/pl class markers (that anciently used to be important as supporters of various suffixes that no longer figure into the language) and preposed case markers. The latter declension is declined very much like an Aryan language with a root and several case markers in two numbers, s & pl. dro-mesayanacu ABS-cat is a native word, while latatariyes mouse-ACC is a borrowing.
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Xing
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Posts: 4153
Joined: 22 Aug 2010 18:46

Re: Locative Adpositional Phrases

Post by Xing »

:con: ???

Kó teng le thông khóp.
cat be_located LOC SUBE table
[koː˥ teːŋ˧ leː˧ tʰoˑŋ˥˨ kʰop̚˥

Kó ja teng le thông khóp ròp.
cat REL be_located LOC SUBE table purr
[koː˥ jaː˧ teˑŋ˧ leː˧ tʰoˑŋ˥˨ kʰop̚˥ ɻop̚˩

Kó háj he nging le thông khôp.
cat find ACC.DEF mouse LOC SUBE table
[koː˥ haˑj˥ heː˧ ŋiˑŋ˧ leː˧ tʰoˑŋ˥˨ kʰop̚˥]
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