The Human Languages of Yantas
The Human Languages of Yantas
So, I thought I'd bring together all of my Yantas languages stuff into one thread, just to show how they all interact with each other. I'll still be working on each language family individually but this thread could kind of act as a hub, and I could use it to show off future plans for smaller language families I haven't quite started working on yet.
So, to start with, here's a map, showing the three languages families I've been working on so far, their main branches and some areas where I might start working on further language families (see here for names of continents and oceans), in the areas they occupy at around 1AD in our timeline:
The Skawlan languages, descended from Proto-Skawlas, are spoken in north-western and western Arenda.
The Sirdic languages, descended from Proto-Sirdic, are spoken in the western areas of Sirden, the western areas of the Great Bridge and the islands of the Sunset Ocean.
The Lesic languages, descended from Lesi Kirra, are spoken in the eastern regions of Sirden and the Bow Islands of the Great Eastern Ocean.
Other languages families, as yet unnamed and still to be worked on, are all indicated in pink. At the moment, they predominantly stand as a potential source of loan words and they help fill in the geographical gaps between the other three language families I've already started working on.
You won't, though, see any human language families turn up in Mistaya or most of Hungas at this point, however, since these areas are home to the Kovur, a non-human, wolf-like, bipedal species that I haven't quite worked out a means of communication for yet. They will likely use speech, but since they're not human, it might be that I only develop inter-species creoles for them.
There may or may not be any languages spoken on the Frozen Twins of Velkasta at this point. I'm thinking that there probably should be, but they'd be very, very isolated and probably restricted to the warmer areas of the the north.
I am planning on having a language family, or language families, that employ the use of clicks, but these might be restricted to the coastal regions of eastern Arenda between the Great Bridge and Konyur.
I'm also thinking of having a tonal sprachbund in Konyur, with other tonal languages dotted around other areas of the Arenda and the Great Bridge, but having phonemic tone be much rarer in Sirden, possibly limited to areas of the northern coast.
So, to start with, here's a map, showing the three languages families I've been working on so far, their main branches and some areas where I might start working on further language families (see here for names of continents and oceans), in the areas they occupy at around 1AD in our timeline:
The Skawlan languages, descended from Proto-Skawlas, are spoken in north-western and western Arenda.
The Sirdic languages, descended from Proto-Sirdic, are spoken in the western areas of Sirden, the western areas of the Great Bridge and the islands of the Sunset Ocean.
The Lesic languages, descended from Lesi Kirra, are spoken in the eastern regions of Sirden and the Bow Islands of the Great Eastern Ocean.
Other languages families, as yet unnamed and still to be worked on, are all indicated in pink. At the moment, they predominantly stand as a potential source of loan words and they help fill in the geographical gaps between the other three language families I've already started working on.
You won't, though, see any human language families turn up in Mistaya or most of Hungas at this point, however, since these areas are home to the Kovur, a non-human, wolf-like, bipedal species that I haven't quite worked out a means of communication for yet. They will likely use speech, but since they're not human, it might be that I only develop inter-species creoles for them.
There may or may not be any languages spoken on the Frozen Twins of Velkasta at this point. I'm thinking that there probably should be, but they'd be very, very isolated and probably restricted to the warmer areas of the the north.
I am planning on having a language family, or language families, that employ the use of clicks, but these might be restricted to the coastal regions of eastern Arenda between the Great Bridge and Konyur.
I'm also thinking of having a tonal sprachbund in Konyur, with other tonal languages dotted around other areas of the Arenda and the Great Bridge, but having phonemic tone be much rarer in Sirden, possibly limited to areas of the northern coast.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
Lovely! I look forward to seeing future developments, either here or in one of the other threads!sangi39 wrote:So, I thought I'd bring together all of my Yantas languages stuff into one thread, just to show how they all interact with each other. I'll still be working on each language family individually but this thread could kind of act as a hub, and I could use it to show off future plans for smaller language families I haven't quite started working on yet.
The names of the continents and oceans are phonaesthetically pleasing, and many of them are quite poetic!sangi39 wrote:So, to start with, here's a map, showing the three languages families I've been working on so far, their main branches and some areas where I might start working on further language families (see here for names of continents and oceans), in the areas they occupy at around 1AD in our timeline:
The Skawlan languages, descended from Proto-Skawlas, are spoken in north-western and western Arenda.Spoiler:
The Sirdic languages, descended from Proto-Sirdic, are spoken in the western areas of Sirden, the western areas of the Great Bridge and the islands of the Sunset Ocean.
The Lesic languages, descended from Lesi Kirra, are spoken in the eastern regions of Sirden and the Bow Islands of the Great Eastern Ocean.
Are the areas between the main families and the pink zones uninhabited, or are those just areas that you don't currently have plans for?sangi39 wrote:Other languages families, as yet unnamed and still to be worked on, are all indicated in pink. At the moment, they predominantly stand as a potential source of loan words and they help fill in the geographical gaps between the other three language families I've already started working on.
Oh, that's a very interesting situation! An estimates, as of now, for how long the kovur and the humans will remain isolated from one another?sangi39 wrote:You won't, though, see any human language families turn up in Mistaya or most of Hungas at this point, however, since these areas are home to the Kovur, a non-human, wolf-like, bipedal species that I haven't quite worked out a means of communication for yet. They will likely use speech, but since they're not human, it might be that I only develop inter-species creoles for them.
There may or may not be any languages spoken on the Frozen Twins of Velkasta at this point. I'm thinking that there probably should be, but they'd be very, very isolated and probably restricted to the warmer areas of the the north.
I'll have to read through the other threads about the kovur and about the planet itself when I get a chance.
sangi39 wrote:I am planning on having a language family, or language families, that employ the use of clicks, but these might be restricted to the coastal regions of eastern Arenda between the Great Bridge and Konyur.
I'm also thinking of having a tonal sprachbund in Konyur, with other tonal languages dotted around other areas of the Arenda and the Great Bridge, but having phonemic tone be much rarer in Sirden, possibly limited to areas of the northern coast.
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
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Re: The Languages of Yantas
I'm quite looking forward to expanding the world as well, even if it's just a rough draft in some areas.shimobaatar wrote:Lovely! I look forward to seeing future developments, either here or in one of the other threads!sangi39 wrote:So, I thought I'd bring together all of my Yantas languages stuff into one thread, just to show how they all interact with each other. I'll still be working on each language family individually but this thread could kind of act as a hub, and I could use it to show off future plans for smaller language families I haven't quite started working on yet.
What I really want to do as well is get back to working on the cultures of the proto-language speakers, which I think might help fill out the vocabulary which I also need to get working on as well.
My plan for the moment is bring all the Yantas threads together, which I've mostly done, get working on vocabulary for the proto-languages, work a bit more on the grammar as I work on the culture, and then try and translate some stuff as well before moving on a bit more the descendant languages. I'm hoping the more structured I am, the more work I can manage to do
I quite liked them And I'm not planning on changing them either, unless I end up translating themshimobaatar wrote:The names of the continents and oceans are phonaesthetically pleasing, and many of them are quite poetic!sangi39 wrote:So, to start with, here's a map, showing the three languages families I've been working on so far, their main branches and some areas where I might start working on further language families (see here for names of continents and oceans), in the areas they occupy at around 1AD in our timeline:
The Skawlan languages, descended from Proto-Skawlas, are spoken in north-western and western Arenda.Spoiler:
The Sirdic languages, descended from Proto-Sirdic, are spoken in the western areas of Sirden, the western areas of the Great Bridge and the islands of the Sunset Ocean.
The Lesic languages, descended from Lesi Kirra, are spoken in the eastern regions of Sirden and the Bow Islands of the Great Eastern Ocean.
The pink areas are kind of "this is generally where this group of languages would be spoken" so they're a bit of a rough draft. The areas around them will likely be inhabited by people speaking those languagesshimobaatar wrote:Are the areas between the main families and the pink zones uninhabited, or are those just areas that you don't currently have plans for?sangi39 wrote:Other languages families, as yet unnamed and still to be worked on, are all indicated in pink. At the moment, they predominantly stand as a potential source of loan words and they help fill in the geographical gaps between the other three language families I've already started working on.
Oh, that's a very interesting situation! An estimates, as of now, for how long the kovur and the humans will remain isolated from one another?sangi39 wrote:You won't, though, see any human language families turn up in Mistaya or most of Hungas at this point, however, since these areas are home to the Kovur, a non-human, wolf-like, bipedal species that I haven't quite worked out a means of communication for yet. They will likely use speech, but since they're not human, it might be that I only develop inter-species creoles for them.
There may or may not be any languages spoken on the Frozen Twins of Velkasta at this point. I'm thinking that there probably should be, but they'd be very, very isolated and probably restricted to the warmer areas of the the north.
I'll have to read through the other threads about the kovur and about the planet itself when I get a chance.[/quote]
Contact-wise, humans are probably in contact with the Kovur right now in south-western Hungas and north-eastern Konyur, and they might have been in contact by this point for around 8-10,000 years. Contact between the people of Sirden and the Kovur, however, won't occur for another 1.5-2,000 years when they finally manage to cross the Sunset Ocean an reach Mistaya.
It's kind of like the rumours and tales of strange men with one leg or faces on their chest that you see in Medieval European stuff, but then they turn out to be true
The thread on the Kovur isn't very well developed beyond a physical description and the musth-like "storming" of males, but I suppose beyond that more in depth descriptions would be specific to given cultural groups rather than the species as a whole, similar to descriptions of humans.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
Sounds like a good plan to me! In my own work, I've especially found that fleshing out the culture of an ethnolinguistic community can be very helpful when it comes to creating their language.sangi39 wrote:What I really want to do as well is get back to working on the cultures of the proto-language speakers, which I think might help fill out the vocabulary which I also need to get working on as well.
My plan for the moment is bring all the Yantas threads together, which I've mostly done, get working on vocabulary for the proto-languages, work a bit more on the grammar as I work on the culture, and then try and translate some stuff as well before moving on a bit more the descendant languages. I'm hoping the more structured I am, the more work I can manage to do
Interesting comparison! I don't think I would have ever thought of it like that on my own, but it does seem very apt to me.sangi39 wrote:Contact-wise, humans are probably in contact with the Kovur right now in south-western Hungas and north-eastern Konyur, and they might have been in contact by this point for around 8-10,000 years. Contact between the people of Sirden and the Kovur, however, won't occur for another 1.5-2,000 years when they finally manage to cross the Sunset Ocean an reach Mistaya.
It's kind of like the rumours and tales of strange men with one leg or faces on their chest that you see in Medieval European stuff, but then they turn out to be true
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: The Languages of Yantas
Here's hoping my plan goes in a similarly productive directionshimobaatar wrote:Sounds like a good plan to me! In my own work, I've especially found that fleshing out the culture of an ethnolinguistic community can be very helpful when it comes to creating their language.sangi39 wrote:What I really want to do as well is get back to working on the cultures of the proto-language speakers, which I think might help fill out the vocabulary which I also need to get working on as well.
My plan for the moment is bring all the Yantas threads together, which I've mostly done, get working on vocabulary for the proto-languages, work a bit more on the grammar as I work on the culture, and then try and translate some stuff as well before moving on a bit more the descendant languages. I'm hoping the more structured I am, the more work I can manage to do
It came about quite randomly. I mentioned in the Kovur thread that the idea for them came about before the idea for Yantas, and I didn't develop Yantas with human-Kovur interactions like that to arise. It was a nice, happy coincidenceshimobaater wrote:Interesting comparison! I don't think I would have ever thought of it like that on my own, but it does seem very apt to me.sangi39 wrote:Contact-wise, humans are probably in contact with the Kovur right now in south-western Hungas and north-eastern Konyur, and they might have been in contact by this point for around 8-10,000 years. Contact between the people of Sirden and the Kovur, however, won't occur for another 1.5-2,000 years when they finally manage to cross the Sunset Ocean an reach Mistaya.
It's kind of like the rumours and tales of strange men with one leg or faces on their chest that you see in Medieval European stuff, but then they turn out to be true
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
Thought I'd try to name the language families that I'd marked in pink above:
a) Tl'arga languages
b) Sjikan languages
c) Vuluka languages
d) Gdrenk languages
e) Kalabi languages
f) Feluo languages
g) Mesit languages
Each of these families derive from proto-languages spoken between 4000 and 1000BC, although I'm not sure yet which ones are how old yet, although I do have some vague ideas regarding the phoneme inventories and phonotactics of each proto-language.
I've also marked out the area predominantly occupied by the Kovur at this point as well, in light blue-purple.
a) Tl'arga languages
b) Sjikan languages
c) Vuluka languages
d) Gdrenk languages
e) Kalabi languages
f) Feluo languages
g) Mesit languages
Each of these families derive from proto-languages spoken between 4000 and 1000BC, although I'm not sure yet which ones are how old yet, although I do have some vague ideas regarding the phoneme inventories and phonotactics of each proto-language.
I've also marked out the area predominantly occupied by the Kovur at this point as well, in light blue-purple.
Last edited by sangi39 on 19 Jul 2015 19:47, edited 2 times in total.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
sangi39 wrote:Thought I'd try to name the language families that I'd marked in pink above:
a) Tl'arga languagesSpoiler:
b) Sjikan languages
c) Vuluka languages
d) Gdrenk languages
e) Kalabi languages
f) Feluo languages
g) Mesit languages
Each of these families derive from proto-languages spoken between 4000 and 1000BC, although I'm not sure yet which ones are how old yet, although I do have some vague ideas regarding the phoneme inventories and phonotactics of each proto-language.
Are the two areas that were marked with light brown before still occupied primarily by humans?sangi39 wrote:I've also marked out the area predominantly occupied by the Kovur at this point as well, in light brown.
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: The Languages of Yantas
Thank you The ones I'm really looking forward to are the Gdrenk languages which I'm planning on being very consonant heavy and then the Vuluka languages as well, which I'm planning on being quite old, but being subject to a series of expansions within the region which kind of wipe out most of the languages in various branches of the language creating a number of (kind of) isolates separated from each other by over a millennium of evolution. Something similar might happen with the Sjikan languages.shimobaatar wrote:sangi39 wrote:Thought I'd try to name the language families that I'd marked in pink above:
a) Tl'arga languagesSpoiler:
b) Sjikan languages
c) Vuluka languages
d) Gdrenk languages
e) Kalabi languages
f) Feluo languages
g) Mesit languages
Each of these families derive from proto-languages spoken between 4000 and 1000BC, although I'm not sure yet which ones are how old yet, although I do have some vague ideas regarding the phoneme inventories and phonotactics of each proto-language.
Damn! I wasn't paying attention to that, but yes, they would still be occupied only by humansshimobaatar wrote:Are the two areas that were marked with light brown before still occupied primarily by humans?sangi39 wrote:I've also marked out the area predominantly occupied by the Kovur at this point as well, in light brown.
I'll go back and edit that
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
I thought I'd throw together some phoneme inventories together for the proto-languages of the 7 language families named above (not including phonotactics, except vague descriptions) as well as romanisations:
a) Proto-Tl'arga
/p t tɬ k q/ <b d dł g y>
/t' tɬ' k' q' ʔ/ <t' tł' k' q' '>
/pʰ tʰ tɬʰ kʰ qʰ/ <p t tł k q>
/s ɬ x h/ <s ł x h>
/s' ɬ' x'/ <s' ł' x'>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ŋ>
/r l/ <r l>
/w j/ <w j>
/i: ɨ: u:/ (high tone only) <í ɨ́ ú>
/i ɨ u/ (low or high tone) <i ɨ u>
/iˀ ɨˀ uˀ/ (low tone only) <ị ɨ̣ ụ>
/e: o:/ (high tone only) <é ó>
/e o/ (low or high tone) <e o>
/eˀ oˀ/ (low tone only) <ẹ ọ>
/a:/ (high tone only) <á>
/a/ (low or high tone) <a>
/aˀ/ (low tone only) <ạ>
Only the low tone is indicated on plain short vowels, by means of a grave accent.
Proto-Tl'arga wouldn't have an overly complex syllable structure, maybe nothing beyond CV(C).
b) Proto-Sjikan
/p t tʲ k kʲ/ <p t tj k kj>
/b d dʲ g gʲ/ <b d dj g gj>
/m n nʲ ŋ ŋʲ/ <m n nj ng ngj>
/f s sʲ h hʲ/ <f s sj h hj>
/r rʲ l lʲ/ <r rj l lj>
/w j/ <w y>
/ʲi~ɪ ʲʉ~u/ <i u>
/ʲe~e̠ ʲɵ~o/ <e o>
/ʲæ~ɑ/ <a>
Proto-Sjikan might not go beyond CV
c) Proto-Vuluka
/p t ʈ k q/ <p t ṭ k ḳ>
/f s ʂ x χ/ <f s ṣ h ḥ>
/r ɽ/ <r ṛ>
/w j/ <w j>
/i ĩ u ũ/ <i in u un>
/ɪɛ ɪẽ ɪa ɪã ʊa ʊã ʊɔ ʊõ/ <ie ien ia ian ua uan uo uon>
/e ẽ o õ/ <e en o on>
/ɛɪ ẽɪ ɔʊ õʊ/ <ei ein ou oun>
/ɛ ɔ/ <ea oa>
/a ã/ <a an>
/aɪ ãɪ aʊ ãʊ/ <ai ain au aun>
Proto-Vuluka might allow for consonant clusters in onsets, but only have open syllables, so C(C)V.
d) Proto-Gdrenk
/p(ʰ) t(ʰ) tʃ(ʰ) k(ʰ) q(ʰ)/ <p t č k q>
/b d dʒ g/ <b d ǰ g>
/p' t' tʃ' k' q'/ <p' t' č' k' q'>
/m n/ <m n>
/s ʃ x/ <s š h>
/v z ʒ ɣ/ <v z ž y>
/r l j/ <r l j>
/i i: u u:/ <i í u ú>
/e e: o:/ <e é ó>
/a a:/ <a á>
Proto-Gdrenk will end up having the most complex syllable structure of these proto-languages, allowing for syllables with large clusters, (C)(C)(C)(C)(C)V(:)(C)(C) but there will be restrictions on what consonants can occur within clusters, which mean longer onset clusters will have a more or less predictable form, e.g. /ngdrj/ would be possible with /pmt'ks/ would not. I'll likely expand on this later.
e) Proto-Kalabi
/t k/ <t k>
/b d/ <b d>
/n/ <n>
/h/ <h>
/l/ <l>
/i/ <í>
/ɪ/ <i>
/o/ <o>
/ɛ/ <e>
/a/ <a>
As well as having such a small phoneme inventory Proto-Kalabi also has a syllable structure of (C)V, making it the only proto-language I have so far that allows for a null-onset as well as vowel clusters.
f) Proto-Feluo
/p t c k/ <p t č k>
/m n/ <m n>
/ɸ s ç h/ <f s š h>
/v r j ʁ/ <v r j g>
/i y ɯ u/ <i ü ï u>
/e ø o/ <e ö o>
/æ ɑ/ <ä a>
Proto-Feluo will have a syllable structure of C(V)(C/V) with a fairly large number of diphthongs that can occur in open syllables.
g) Proto-Mesit
/p t ts tʃ k kx/ <p t c č k x>
/b d dz dʒ/ <b d ʒ ǯ>
/m n/ <m n>
/θ s ʃ x/ <θ s š h>
/v ð z ʒ ɣ/ <v ð z ž g>
/r l j/ <r l j>
/i u/ <i u>
/ə/ <ë>
/e o/ <e o>
/a/ <a>
Proto-Mesit will have a CV(C) syllable structure, as well as a system of vowel harmony, combining front-back harmony and height harmony, although I'm still working on the exact details but it will likely also relate to stress.
a) Proto-Tl'arga
/p t tɬ k q/ <b d dł g y>
/t' tɬ' k' q' ʔ/ <t' tł' k' q' '>
/pʰ tʰ tɬʰ kʰ qʰ/ <p t tł k q>
/s ɬ x h/ <s ł x h>
/s' ɬ' x'/ <s' ł' x'>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ŋ>
/r l/ <r l>
/w j/ <w j>
/i: ɨ: u:/ (high tone only) <í ɨ́ ú>
/i ɨ u/ (low or high tone) <i ɨ u>
/iˀ ɨˀ uˀ/ (low tone only) <ị ɨ̣ ụ>
/e: o:/ (high tone only) <é ó>
/e o/ (low or high tone) <e o>
/eˀ oˀ/ (low tone only) <ẹ ọ>
/a:/ (high tone only) <á>
/a/ (low or high tone) <a>
/aˀ/ (low tone only) <ạ>
Only the low tone is indicated on plain short vowels, by means of a grave accent.
Proto-Tl'arga wouldn't have an overly complex syllable structure, maybe nothing beyond CV(C).
b) Proto-Sjikan
/p t tʲ k kʲ/ <p t tj k kj>
/b d dʲ g gʲ/ <b d dj g gj>
/m n nʲ ŋ ŋʲ/ <m n nj ng ngj>
/f s sʲ h hʲ/ <f s sj h hj>
/r rʲ l lʲ/ <r rj l lj>
/w j/ <w y>
/ʲi~ɪ ʲʉ~u/ <i u>
/ʲe~e̠ ʲɵ~o/ <e o>
/ʲæ~ɑ/ <a>
Proto-Sjikan might not go beyond CV
c) Proto-Vuluka
/p t ʈ k q/ <p t ṭ k ḳ>
/f s ʂ x χ/ <f s ṣ h ḥ>
/r ɽ/ <r ṛ>
/w j/ <w j>
/i ĩ u ũ/ <i in u un>
/ɪɛ ɪẽ ɪa ɪã ʊa ʊã ʊɔ ʊõ/ <ie ien ia ian ua uan uo uon>
/e ẽ o õ/ <e en o on>
/ɛɪ ẽɪ ɔʊ õʊ/ <ei ein ou oun>
/ɛ ɔ/ <ea oa>
/a ã/ <a an>
/aɪ ãɪ aʊ ãʊ/ <ai ain au aun>
Proto-Vuluka might allow for consonant clusters in onsets, but only have open syllables, so C(C)V.
d) Proto-Gdrenk
/p(ʰ) t(ʰ) tʃ(ʰ) k(ʰ) q(ʰ)/ <p t č k q>
/b d dʒ g/ <b d ǰ g>
/p' t' tʃ' k' q'/ <p' t' č' k' q'>
/m n/ <m n>
/s ʃ x/ <s š h>
/v z ʒ ɣ/ <v z ž y>
/r l j/ <r l j>
/i i: u u:/ <i í u ú>
/e e: o:/ <e é ó>
/a a:/ <a á>
Proto-Gdrenk will end up having the most complex syllable structure of these proto-languages, allowing for syllables with large clusters, (C)(C)(C)(C)(C)V(:)(C)(C) but there will be restrictions on what consonants can occur within clusters, which mean longer onset clusters will have a more or less predictable form, e.g. /ngdrj/ would be possible with /pmt'ks/ would not. I'll likely expand on this later.
e) Proto-Kalabi
/t k/ <t k>
/b d/ <b d>
/n/ <n>
/h/ <h>
/l/ <l>
/i/ <í>
/ɪ/ <i>
/o/ <o>
/ɛ/ <e>
/a/ <a>
As well as having such a small phoneme inventory Proto-Kalabi also has a syllable structure of (C)V, making it the only proto-language I have so far that allows for a null-onset as well as vowel clusters.
f) Proto-Feluo
/p t c k/ <p t č k>
/m n/ <m n>
/ɸ s ç h/ <f s š h>
/v r j ʁ/ <v r j g>
/i y ɯ u/ <i ü ï u>
/e ø o/ <e ö o>
/æ ɑ/ <ä a>
Proto-Feluo will have a syllable structure of C(V)(C/V) with a fairly large number of diphthongs that can occur in open syllables.
g) Proto-Mesit
/p t ts tʃ k kx/ <p t c č k x>
/b d dz dʒ/ <b d ʒ ǯ>
/m n/ <m n>
/θ s ʃ x/ <θ s š h>
/v ð z ʒ ɣ/ <v ð z ž g>
/r l j/ <r l j>
/i u/ <i u>
/ə/ <ë>
/e o/ <e o>
/a/ <a>
Proto-Mesit will have a CV(C) syllable structure, as well as a system of vowel harmony, combining front-back harmony and height harmony, although I'm still working on the exact details but it will likely also relate to stress.
Last edited by sangi39 on 21 Jul 2015 01:44, edited 1 time in total.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
To go back to Proto-Gdrenk's consonant clusters, we find the following kinds:
So, for example šrvals and ngdljénk would be valid syllables while jlads and tsó would not be.
Code: Select all
Onset
NR NG NRG
FR FG FRG
PR PG PRG
NP NPR NPG NPRG
NPP NPPR NPPG NPPRG
FP FPR FPG FPRG
FPP FPPR FPPG FPPRG
PP <pt pč kt kč qt qč> + voiced and ejective counterparts
FP <sp st sč sk sq> <šp št šč šk šq> <hp ht hč> + voiced and ejective counterparts
NP <mp nt nč nk nq> + voiced and ejective counterparts
The PP elements of FPP- and NPP-initial clusters are the same those noted above
Coda
Only NP, RP, FP and GP, RF, GF, RN and GN clusters are found in coda position
---------
P <p t č k q> <b d ǰ g> <p' t' č' k' q'>
N <m n>
F <s š h> <v z ž y>
R <r l>
G <v j>
<v> acts as a member of both G and F. It cannot appear before a plosive or another instance of <v>, but it can occur before one of <r l j rj lj>. Similarly, it can appear after one or <r l j> at the end of a syllable.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
And to go back to Proto-Mesit's vowel harmony:
Proto-Mesit has the following vowels:
/i u/ <i u>
/ə/ <ë>
/e o/ <e o>
/a/ <a>
These fall into several classes, the first based on frontness:
Front: <i e>
Neutral: <ë a>
Back: <u o>
And the second based on height:
High: <i ë u>
Low: <e a o>
Primary stress is placed on the final syllable of the root (whether original or derived), unless the preceding syllable is heavy. This stressed vowel then determines whether following or preceding non-neutral vowels throughout the entire word are either front or back.
Secondary stress is placed on each odd numbered syllable from the start of the word, except when adjacent to a syllable carrying primary stress. Syllables carrying secondary stress determine the height of vowel only in the unstressed syllable(s) immediately preceding it.
So let's take two nonsense examples /na.ði/ and /tʃor.ti/. In the former, the final syllable is stressed while in the latter, the penultimate syllable is stress giving /naˈði/ and /ˈtʃor.ti/. Now, since stressed syllables control the height of preceding unstressed vowels, /naˈði/ must be [nəˈði]. Similarly, the syllable carrying primary stress determines the frontness of all syllables within a given word, meaning /ˈtʃor.ti/ must become [ˈtʃor.tu] in order to conform to these rules.
Now let's say we wanted to add an inflectional suffix -/mo/ to each word, giving us [nəˈði.mo] and [ˈtʃor.tu.mo]. Again, primary stressed syllables determine frontness of all vowels, leading to [nəˈði.me] and [ˈtʃor.tu.mo]. Seconday stress is placed on even syllables except when adjacent to primary stress, leading to [nəˈði.me] and [ˈtʃor.tuˌmo], and since stressed vowels also determine the height of preceding unstressed vowels, we get [nəˈði.me] and [ˈtʃor.toˌmo] as the final result.
If, however, -/mo/ had been a derivational suffix, giving /na.ði.mo/ and /tʃor.ti.mo/ instead, then the resulting roots would have been [ˌna.ðoˈmo] and [ˌtʃor.toˈmo].
As you can see, derivational affixes have the potential to shift whether a root contains back (and neutral) vowels or front (and neutral) vowels while inflectional affixes have their frontness determined by the root.
Proto-Mesit has the following vowels:
/i u/ <i u>
/ə/ <ë>
/e o/ <e o>
/a/ <a>
These fall into several classes, the first based on frontness:
Front: <i e>
Neutral: <ë a>
Back: <u o>
And the second based on height:
High: <i ë u>
Low: <e a o>
Primary stress is placed on the final syllable of the root (whether original or derived), unless the preceding syllable is heavy. This stressed vowel then determines whether following or preceding non-neutral vowels throughout the entire word are either front or back.
Secondary stress is placed on each odd numbered syllable from the start of the word, except when adjacent to a syllable carrying primary stress. Syllables carrying secondary stress determine the height of vowel only in the unstressed syllable(s) immediately preceding it.
So let's take two nonsense examples /na.ði/ and /tʃor.ti/. In the former, the final syllable is stressed while in the latter, the penultimate syllable is stress giving /naˈði/ and /ˈtʃor.ti/. Now, since stressed syllables control the height of preceding unstressed vowels, /naˈði/ must be [nəˈði]. Similarly, the syllable carrying primary stress determines the frontness of all syllables within a given word, meaning /ˈtʃor.ti/ must become [ˈtʃor.tu] in order to conform to these rules.
Now let's say we wanted to add an inflectional suffix -/mo/ to each word, giving us [nəˈði.mo] and [ˈtʃor.tu.mo]. Again, primary stressed syllables determine frontness of all vowels, leading to [nəˈði.me] and [ˈtʃor.tu.mo]. Seconday stress is placed on even syllables except when adjacent to primary stress, leading to [nəˈði.me] and [ˈtʃor.tuˌmo], and since stressed vowels also determine the height of preceding unstressed vowels, we get [nəˈði.me] and [ˈtʃor.toˌmo] as the final result.
If, however, -/mo/ had been a derivational suffix, giving /na.ði.mo/ and /tʃor.ti.mo/ instead, then the resulting roots would have been [ˌna.ðoˈmo] and [ˌtʃor.toˈmo].
As you can see, derivational affixes have the potential to shift whether a root contains back (and neutral) vowels or front (and neutral) vowels while inflectional affixes have their frontness determined by the root.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
I'd say Gdrenk is my favorite of the names. I really like your idea for creating "isolates", as well.sangi39 wrote: Thank you The ones I'm really looking forward to are the Gdrenk languages which I'm planning on being very consonant heavy and then the Vuluka languages as well, which I'm planning on being quite old, but being subject to a series of expansions within the region which kind of wipe out most of the languages in various branches of the language creating a number of (kind of) isolates separated from each other by over a millennium of evolution. Something similar might happen with the Sjikan languages.
Heh, no worries, I can guarantee I'd have done the same thing myself.sangi39 wrote:Damn! I wasn't paying attention to that, but yes, they would still be occupied only by humans
I'll go back and edit that
sangi39 wrote:I thought I'd throw together some phoneme inventories together for the proto-languages of the 7 language families named above (not including phonotactics, except vague descriptions) as well as romanisations:
I love the idea of representing unaspirated /q/ as <y>. I like the rest of the orthography as well, but are the first few lines which exhibit the stops supposed to look more like the following (my edits, which may be completely wrong, are in bold)?sangi39 wrote:a) Proto-Tl'arga
Spoiler:
/p t tɬ k q/ <b d dł g y>
/t' tɬ' k' q' ʔ/ <t' tł' k' q' '>
/pʰ tʰ tɬʰ kʰ qʰ/ <p t tł k q>
Also, do I understand correctly that plain, short vowels are orthographically unmarked, so to speak, when they are pronounced with a high-tone?
Were there any particular languages/language families that inspired this phonology, if you don't mind my asking?
I like how many fairly symmetrical pairs of palatalized consonants there are, and how palatalization is differentiated orthographically from <y>. Regarding the vowels, would the "pre-palatalized" versions occur after palatalized consonants, with the other realizations occurring elsewhere, if that makes sense?sangi39 wrote:b) Proto-Sjikan
Spoiler:
I very much like the (at least orthographic) symmetry, so to speak, between the retroflex and uvular obstruents relative to their alveolar and velar counterparts. Hopefully that statement makes sense. The systems of nasal vowels and diphthongs are also beautiful. If it were up to me, I'd go with allowing onset clusters but no codas.sangi39 wrote:c) Proto-Vuluka
Spoiler:
Regarding the fricatives, was this the intended placement? I could certainly be wrong (edits are bolded again).sangi39 wrote:d) Proto-Gdrenk
Spoiler:
/s ʃ x/ <s š h>
/v z ʒ ɣ/ <v z ž y>
Anyway, I like the orthography, particularly the use of <y> for /ɣ/, the way the post-alveolar sibilants are represented, and the use of acute accents for long vowels. I'm also quite a fan of the optional(?) aspiration of the voiceless stops and the lack of a short /o/. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with in terms of further phonotactic restrictions.
Nice and small, relatively speaking! The stop inventory is wonderful, and I'm happy to see /h/ as the only fricative, along with /n l/ as the lone sonorants. The vowels are also lovely, and the language's relatively unusual (in-world) phonotactics make things even better. Are you planning on placing any further restrictions on vowel clusters?sangi39 wrote:e) Proto-Kalabi
Spoiler:
It's awesome, in my opinion, to see letters like <č š> representing "true" palatals like /c ç/ here. The orthographic use of <g> also caught my eye, so to speak. The voiceless bilabial fricative (especially since it's "paired" with a voiced labiodental fricative) and the four "umlauted" vowels (both the letters themselves and the phonemes they represent) are also very cool! Any plans on which diphthongs will be allowed, and which won't?sangi39 wrote:f) Proto-Feluo
Spoiler:
I like the representations of the voiced sibilant affricates, the voiceless velar affricate, essentially all the fricatives, and the schwa in particular! I'm very much looking forward to hearing more about this system of vowel harmony.sangi39 wrote:g) Proto-Mesit
Spoiler:
Interesting! Regarding FP clusters, would the voiced counterparts of <sp st sč sk sq> <šp št šč šk šq> <hp ht hč> be <zb zd zǰ zg> <žb žd žǰ žg> <yb yd yǰ>? Would the ejective counterparts of the PP clusters <pt pč kt kč qt qč> be spelled <p't' p'č' k't' k'č' q't' q'č'> or <pt' pč' kt' kč' qt' qč'> or some other way? Would the ejective counterpart of a, for example, NPRG cluster like <nčrj> be romanized something like <nč'rj>?sangi39 wrote:To go back to Proto-Gdrenk's consonant clusters, we find the following kinds:
So, for example šrvals and ngdljénk would be valid syllables while jlads and tsó would not be.Spoiler:
I have a feeling I had other questions that I'm forgetting to ask, so my apologies if they suddenly come to me later and I ask them then. I like how /v/ can be a member of two groups, so to speak, in terms of phonotactics; are there any particular reasons for this "quirkiness"?
Wow, I love this! It's a very creative and well thought-out system. It's cool how stress plays in, how there are two "kinds" of vowel harmony, and how derivational affixes differ from inflectional ones. I look forward to seeing this system "in action", so to speak, in the future!sangi39 wrote:And to go back to Proto-Mesit's vowel harmony:
Spoiler:
If you don't mind my asking, though, could you further explain the placement of secondary stress, using longer example words, if possible?
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: The Languages of Yantas
Gdrenk is one of my favourite names tooshimobaatar wrote:I'd say Gdrenk is my favorite of the names. I really like your idea for creating "isolates", as well.sangi39 wrote: Thank you The ones I'm really looking forward to are the Gdrenk languages which I'm planning on being very consonant heavy and then the Vuluka languages as well, which I'm planning on being quite old, but being subject to a series of expansions within the region which kind of wipe out most of the languages in various branches of the language creating a number of (kind of) isolates separated from each other by over a millennium of evolution. Something similar might happen with the Sjikan languages.
As for the "isolate" idea, I'm hoping it will make sense once I start filling out those areas of the map a bit more. The general idea is that since Proto-Vuluka, the languages have spread out in waves, with these waves occurring multiple times over the course of history, with each successive wave spreading one particular language out quite far, wiping out surrounding languages, settling in, changing as speakers lose contact with each other with some other language then spreading out, repeating the process.
Nope, your edits were right. I messed up thereshimobaatar wrote:I love the idea of representing unaspirated /q/ as <y>. I like the rest of the orthography as well, but are the first few lines which exhibit the stops supposed to look more like the following (my edits, which may be completely wrong, are in bold)?sangi39 wrote: a) Proto-Tl'arga
Spoiler:
/p t tɬ k q/ <b d dł g y>
/t' tɬ' k' q' ʔ/ <t' tł' k' q' '>
/pʰ tʰ tɬʰ kʰ qʰ/ <p t tł k q>
Also, do I understand correctly that plain, short vowels are orthographically unmarked, so to speak, when they are pronounced with a high-tone?
Were there any particular languages/language families that inspired this phonology, if you don't mind my asking?
And yep, the plain short vowels, when carrying high tone, are unmarked orthographically
As for languages that inspired the phonology? Some of the Athabaskan languages inspired the consonant inventory. As for the vowels, I think that was a mix of Athabaskan and possibly South-East Asian, but I'm not too sure.
That's about right for the vowels, yeah. Each pair represents a pair of allophones, one found after a palatalised consonant, e.g. [ʲi] and one after a non-palatalised consonant, in this case [ɪ], both allophones of /i/. I just thought I'd try to demonstrate the allophony early onshimobaatar wrote:I like how many fairly symmetrical pairs of palatalized consonants there are, and how palatalization is differentiated orthographically from <y>. Regarding the vowels, would the "pre-palatalized" versions occur after palatalized consonants, with the other realizations occurring elsewhere, if that makes sense?sangi39 wrote: b) Proto-Sjikan
Spoiler:
It does make sense, and that was the plan behind it What actually surprised me most about your commentary here was that you didn't point out the lack of phonemic nasal consonantsshimobaatar wrote:I very much like the (at least orthographic) symmetry, so to speak, between the retroflex and uvular obstruents relative to their alveolar and velar counterparts. Hopefully that statement makes sense. The systems of nasal vowels and diphthongs are also beautiful. If it were up to me, I'd go with allowing onset clusters but no codas.sangi39 wrote: c) Proto-Vuluka
Spoiler:
Yep, that's me tripping up again (I'd originally planned on having no voiced fricatives, except /v/), so I'll need to edit that.shimobaatar wrote:Regarding the fricatives, was this the intended placement? I could certainly be wrong (edits are bolded again).sangi39 wrote: d) Proto-Gdrenk
Spoiler:
/s ʃ x/ <s š h>
/v z ʒ ɣ/ <v z ž y>
Anyway, I like the orthography, particularly the use of <y> for /ɣ/, the way the post-alveolar sibilants are represented, and the use of acute accents for long vowels. I'm also quite a fan of the optional(?) aspiration of the voiceless stops and the lack of a short /o/. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with in terms of further phonotactic restrictions.
And yeah, at this stage, aspiration on the voiceless plosives is either going to be optional, or conditioned, I'm not sure which.
So far, as far as restrictions on vowel clusters go, I'm not sure. I'd prefer to have none, but there'll probably be a limit of something like four vowels in a row in non-derived words.shimobaatar wrote:Nice and small, relatively speaking! The stop inventory is wonderful, and I'm happy to see /h/ as the only fricative, along with /n l/ as the lone sonorants. The vowels are also lovely, and the language's relatively unusual (in-world) phonotactics make things even better. Are you planning on placing any further restrictions on vowel clusters?sangi39 wrote: e) Proto-Kalabi
Spoiler:
Diphthongs might be subject to a kind of assimilation or vowel harmony (depending on how you want to look at it) being limited to vowels of the same frontness and rounding. So things like /ɯɑ/, /yø/ and /ei/ but not /ɯe/, /yo/ and /ey/.shimobaatar wrote:It's awesome, in my opinion, to see letters like <č š> representing "true" palatals like /c ç/ here. The orthographic use of <g> also caught my eye, so to speak. The voiceless bilabial fricative (especially since it's "paired" with a voiced labiodental fricative) and the four "umlauted" vowels (both the letters themselves and the phonemes they represent) are also very cool! Any plans on which diphthongs will be allowed, and which won't?sangi39 wrote: f) Proto-Feluo
Spoiler:
I always get a little stuck with the dental fricatives, but I thought here, just using their IPA equivalents made sense. I don't see them sticking around very long.shimobaatar wrote:I like the representations of the voiced sibilant affricates, the voiceless velar affricate, essentially all the fricatives, and the schwa in particular! I'm very much looking forward to hearing more about this system of vowel harmony.sangi39 wrote: g) Proto-Mesit
Spoiler:
Yep, those would be the voiced counterparts, and for the moment something like <p't'> (and <nč'rj>, to answer that question) would represent an ejective plosive cluster.shimobaatar wrote:Interesting! Regarding FP clusters, would the voiced counterparts of <sp st sč sk sq> <šp št šč šk šq> <hp ht hč> be <zb zd zǰ zg> <žb žd žǰ žg> <yb yd yǰ>? Would the ejective counterparts of the PP clusters <pt pč kt kč qt qč> be spelled <p't' p'č' k't' k'č' q't' q'č'> or <pt' pč' kt' kč' qt' qč'> or some other way? Would the ejective counterpart of a, for example, NPRG cluster like <nčrj> be romanized something like <nč'rj>?sangi39 wrote: To go back to Proto-Gdrenk's consonant clusters, we find the following kinds:
So, for example šrvals and ngdljénk would be valid syllables while jlads and tsó would not be.Spoiler:
I have a feeling I had other questions that I'm forgetting to ask, so my apologies if they suddenly come to me later and I ask them then. I like how /v/ can be a member of two groups, so to speak, in terms of phonotactics; are there any particular reasons for this "quirkiness"?
As for what's going on with /v/, I'm thinking this is the result of some old merger between *v and *w (with a corresponding *f merging in with /x/ or something). I'm not too sure though but I liked the idea and stuck with it either way
Looking at it, it's probably easier to start with secondary stress placement first and then primary stress placement, so:shimobaatar wrote:Wow, I love this! It's a very creative and well thought-out system. It's cool how stress plays in, how there are two "kinds" of vowel harmony, and how derivational affixes differ from inflectional ones. I look forward to seeing this system "in action", so to speak, in the future!sangi39 wrote: And to go back to Proto-Mesit's vowel harmony:
Spoiler:
If you don't mind my asking, though, could you further explain the placement of secondary stress, using longer example words, if possible?
1) Secondary stress is placed regularly on odd numbered syllables moving from left to right through the word, e.g.
/na.ði.mo/ > [ˌna.ðiˌmo] (/mo/ is part of the root)
/tʃor.ti-mo/ > [ˌtʃor.ti-ˌmo] (/mo/ is an inflectional affix)
/ri.si.-mo/ > [ˌri.si-ˌmo] (/mo/ is an inflectional affix)
2a) Primary stress is placed on the final syllable of the root (formed of a stem and any derivational morphemes)...
2b) ... unless the penultimate syllable of the root is heavy, in which case stress in placed on the penultimate syllable
[ˌna.ðiˌmo] > [ˌna.ðiˈmo]
[ˌtʃor.ti-ˌmo] > [ˈtʃor.ti-ˌmo]
[ˌri.si-ˌmo] > [ˌriˈsi-ˌmo]
3) Syllables carrying secondary stress that are adjacent to the syllable carrying primary stress become unstressed:
[ˌna.ðiˈmo] > [ˌna.ðiˈmo]
[ˈtʃor.ti-ˌmo] > [ˈtʃor.ti-ˌmo]
[ˌriˈsi-ˌmo] > [ˌriˈsi-mo]
4) The syllable carrying primary stress causing all non-neutral vowels to match in frontness:
[ˌna.ðiˈmo] > [ˌna.ðuˈmo]
[ˈtʃor.ti-ˌmo] > [ˈtʃor.tu-ˌmo]
[ˌriˈsi-mo] > [riˈsi-me]
5) Syllables carrying stress, either primary or secondary, cause immediately preceding unstressed vowels to match in height:
[ˌna.ðuˈmo] > [ˌna.ðoˈmo]
[ˈtʃor.tu-ˌmo] > [ˈtʃor.to-ˌmo]
[riˈsi-me] > [riˈsi-me]
And I hope that helps at least a bit. I have no idea how this will play out when I actually expand on Proto-Mesit, or how it will transfer down into any daughter languages, but either way, at least this time I'm not just ripping of Finnish's vowel harmony
On a side note, that may have bee my most quote-in-quote-filled reply during my time on the CBB, especially talking about different conlangs.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
That makes sense to me.sangi39 wrote:As for the "isolate" idea, I'm hoping it will make sense once I start filling out those areas of the map a bit more. The general idea is that since Proto-Vuluka, the languages have spread out in waves, with these waves occurring multiple times over the course of history, with each successive wave spreading one particular language out quite far, wiping out surrounding languages, settling in, changing as speakers lose contact with each other with some other language then spreading out, repeating the process.
Ahh, cool! I definitely got an Athabaskan-type feeling from the consonants. For the vowels, though, I was more torn on whether to guess they were inspired by some of the languages of SE Asia, as you mentioned, or by some Oto-Manguean languages (probably because of the central high unrounded vowel, really).sangi39 wrote:As for languages that inspired the phonology? Some of the Athabaskan languages inspired the consonant inventory. As for the vowels, I think that was a mix of Athabaskan and possibly South-East Asian, but I'm not too sure.
Ahh, you're right, I didn't say anything about that! Haha, I guess I was distracted by all those nasal vowels!sangi39 wrote:What actually surprised me most about your commentary here was that you didn't point out the lack of phonemic nasal consonants
Oh, that's an interesting point; I hadn't even thought about the potential sizes of clusters! I was mainly wondering if any of the vowel qualities would be "incompatible", so to speak.sangi39 wrote:So far, as far as restrictions on vowel clusters go, I'm not sure. I'd prefer to have none, but there'll probably be a limit of something like four vowels in a row in non-derived words.
Is one of these supposed to read "(/mo/ is a derivational affix)"?sangi39 wrote:1) Secondary stress is placed regularly on odd numbered syllables moving from left to right through the word, e.g.
/na.ði.mo/ > [ˌna.ðiˌmo] (/mo/ is part of the root)
/tʃor.ti-mo/ > [ˌtʃor.ti-ˌmo] (/mo/ is an inflectional affix)
/ri.si.-mo/ > [ˌri.si-ˌmo] (/mo/ is an inflectional affix)
But anyway, thank you for all of your explanations once again!
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: The Languages of Yantas
Either or really. As I mentioned in 2a a "root" is defined as a "stem" plus any derivational affixes that might be attached to it (similar to PIE in this sense).shimobaatar wrote:Is one of these supposed to read "(/mo/ is a derivational affix)"?sangi39 wrote:1) Secondary stress is placed regularly on odd numbered syllables moving from left to right through the word, e.g.
/na.ði.mo/ > [ˌna.ðiˌmo] (/mo/ is part of the root)
/tʃor.ti-mo/ > [ˌtʃor.ti-ˌmo] (/mo/ is an inflectional affix)
/ri.si.-mo/ > [ˌri.si-ˌmo] (/mo/ is an inflectional affix)
But anyway, thank you for all of your explanations once again!
What I will try to do when I start working on Proto-Mesit in more depth, is present the stem in bold, with derivational affixes indicated with "+" (the entire root will then appear in italics) and inflectional affixes indicated with "-". So, for example, naði+mo (where /mo/ is a derivational affix) vs. naði-mo (where /mo/ is an inflectional affix). As with Proto-Skawlas, the glossing could get somewhat complicated, but I'm planning on using the romanisation almost entirely (which I'm looking to do with Skawlas as well in the near future since at the moment I'm still using IPA in some areas alongside the romanisation). So, just as an example:
naðomot
naði+mo-t
father-AUG-PL
"grandfathers"
I get the feeling that I'll only mark primary stress, possibly with an acute accent (if at all), since generally speaking, secondary stress is much more predictable and for the most part I think it would be unnecessary to mark it (plus, it'd just look bleh)
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
And then just to bring everything together from the Proto-Sirdic, Proto-Skawlas and Lesi Kirra vocabulary I worked on today, here they are in one table:
I've only included the agentive singular, nominative singular and specific word forms from Proto-Sirdic, Proto-Skawlas and Lesi Kirra respectively, just to keep the table a bit smaller
Code: Select all
English Sirdic Skawlas Lesi Kirra
1 woman bosos dëkru p'ííhe
2 man kumpar hjanḍë gíyo
3 human tulwer rëqis gíyo
lëdas
4 child saljewar spraq nyííte
dëkru
5 wife ketalus pëgjir p'ííhe
6 husband kumpar hjanḍë gíyo
bankë
7 mother nigosus dëkli kééxi
8 father iwlirar dëkab t'únyu
9 animal jo'as spëṣiḍ yúga/rága
10 fish risos giḍkë súma
11 bird hi'tolor pëḍli p'íla
12 dog hugonar ṭwëdrum yééxa
13 louse karto bëpun nyúúnya
14 snake tujroror taqdë māāne
15 worm mitu dlëkaj māāne
16 tree mi'jum bwëga yúúk'i
17 forest hetuj qeqlin tíco
18 stick loje'er brëskis dút'a
19 fruit derrir ṭëḍuw cása
kuguw
20 seed denner ṭrëbi t'úrri
21 leaf lenkar ginskë sííku
22 root śeras mëkul nyāse
23 bark tinas sṭwëḍum k'újo
24 flower panjer brëja sāri
25 grass gemas qëkiq yóki
26 rope lohuwor sḍwëḍar nééra
27 skin śu'tirer ḍlëṭi dényo
28 meat bannus sgrëṭi páása
29 blood doldir drantë jáxxa
30 bone do'soror wuqṭë k'ākke
31 fat bo'dijes ṣirṭë cúppu
32 egg tojwes blëpa léép'u
33 horn lisbur ḍëgaw kéyä
34 tail sudanor qësaq pít'u
35 feather beśomor hësga gāānyi
36 hair butew tlalgë k'ócu
welsar
37 head śujko'or gumrë wúse
38 ear dośśus ḍjëmag jódu
39 eye londonus lëstur géci
40 nose gumus hrëkam núse
41 mouth sesos drëtum jéna
42 tooth tomber sdëḍin náci
43 tongue hujpar pjinqë wórre
44 nail dijkarus gësdur c'ííqe
45 foot gorkena ṣrildë hāāk'u
46 leg gorkena dësbu cááno
47 knee śahos ḍiqtë móxo
48 hand hutula dëkar c'ányo
wontus
49 wing pajjir mënim kíla
50 belly jarus duhpë p'úútä
51 guts pittor dimsë tāyu
52 neck mesomor sëski k'éjä
53 back helgajar sbujkë wéélu
54 breast palle'es ṭëgra békä
55 heart gendunor bëduq c'óónu
56 liver puroror ṭuḍḍë hārre
57 sun regges tësgun gúse
58 moon śogunus biwjë gāce
59 star meda gahdë jáálu
60 water su''os dlëtar kááwä
61 rain rokkunos rënra rúwa
62 river miduros shëkru c'úllä
63 lake budumos ḍijdë qóóxo
64 sea śikoros nëhlud dági
65 salt didi druq gāāne
66 stone jeslun hëṭir cāppe
67 sand doli hwḷkah nééli
68 dust gajjen dankë lāqu
69 earth sirre sdëpir bóóyu
70 mountain monal hëḍrus yúnä
71 road nigu rëska k'úlli
72 cloud siwtur hëdid nííp'o
73 fog śu'onor gëblur gáki
74 sky dolunor sḍëtan xíít'ä
75 wind tunnamor gëṭja téppu
76 snow nojur ḍëpli gát'o
77 ice punas pësmi dāce
78 smoke rejbosor gësru sáccä
79 fire kipejer sjëqa wúsu
80 ash śa'me palṣë tākko
81 red mośi- rëbju dáya
82 green girdun- ṭëṣur mííkä
83 yellow gurne- wëmin t'ího
84 white tagu- tësnu k'úúwa
85 black atus- ṣlërah dééro
86 night biltis klëda méxo
87 day ma'jijer rudtë dóyä
88 year tijka dësga xényu
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
And grouping all of the verbs together from Proto-Sirdic, Proto-Skawlas and Lesi Kirra, again only showing base forms:
Code: Select all
English Sirdic Skawlan Lesi Kirra
1 to drink pago ḍlu.tam lääxu
2 to eat monil sṭa.nu maapo
3 to bite korra ṭruq.ni husu
4 to suck ronśum ḍli.ruj bibä
5 to spit mimbuw ṭu.ras k'eequ
6 to vomit halum pa.mud käci
7 to blow hisil sa.qim xoyu
8 to breathe jijjo bru.tu gowa
9 to laugh dormil ti.kun källa
10 to see tiddu la.tru k'äqä
11 to hear upi sta.ṭan heju
12 to know li'mer bja.su t'ussu
13 to think muj'a lu.dlu rumi
14 to smell jornos la.wuw p'äkki
15 to fear runde smi.ḍah c'iwu
16 to sleep molha du.mra wesa
17 to live gagi tu.ṭji winye
18 to die roso da.klal suuwo
19 to kill tukul pi.sgla xat'o
20 to fight lowge nwa.ṭu c'että
21 to hunt siśśi ka.sṭuj lexo
22 to hit sujga gu.dir wappa
23 to cut morhe ṭu.las c'ääsi
24 to split kahil gji.ku birru
25 to stab tuwil sdi.hra nyakka
26 to scratch gehe sṭa.baḍ nuut'e
27 to dig lawwer bi.twa caap'a
28 to swim galnah li.ḍin dukä
29 to fly rartus ḍu.sduh täje
30 to walk paldo ṭi.sṭis tuku
31 to come kewu' shu.wa bisso
32 to lie down naha' ki.lul jaaxo
33 to sit lirśur pa.pal kela
34 to stand ha'on sda.wun cuyu
35 to turn palmu ṭu.ṣir puumu
36 to fall dogo da.bum cepu
37 to give hulna sbi.sim t'ik'e
38 to hold dinde' hlu.pu piikä
39 to squeeze sikim ju.ṭaj mässu
40 to rub kollu' man.ma määxu
41 to wash mebo kwu.li siinya
42 to wipe kilpes sdja.hja nyoqa
43 to pull derda ba.ṭum kudä
44 to push rehu kud.ku jibä
45 to throw kiwte wu.bla xaki
46 to tie sorjan ṭar.ni riilu
47 to sew nustem bu.kjin räku
48 to count tempi du.tun däya
49 to say suran da.gjal nyekkä
50 to sing hurre sha.du nyipu
51 to play wesun la.snah lirä
52 to float hiwri pi.ruj gaju
53 to flow sanla nu.sbur cillo
54 to freeze kanem ṭi.plin däka
55 to swell risti ma.slih pohä
56 to burn ki'am qu.stwa riga
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
These all look cool, as usual! Good luck classifying the verbs and deciding which forms to show.
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: The Languages of Yantas
Going through another busy period at work again, so I've not been able to do as much conlanging as I wanted (basically nothing since the end of July), but I thought I'd throw together some very basic stuff to do with the "minor" conlangs of Yantas mostly to do with morphology, syntax, morphosyntactic alignment, etc.
Proto-Tl'arga
Proto-Tl'arga will, I think, have an SVO word-order, be split-ergative, both morphologically and syntactically, and be somewhat fusional or agglutinative, relying more on auxiliaries and particles than conjugating verbs directly and declining nouns.
Proto-Sjikan
Proto-Sjikan will have an SOV word-order and be somewhat split-ergative (morphologically), but only to a fairly limited extent. It would be agglutinative, I think, especially on verbs, in a similar way to Proto-Skawlas, where nouns have fairly minimal morphology but verbs take a large number of morphemes appearing in set slots.
Proto-Sjikan might have a number of different noun classes, perhaps three or four, possibly based on animacy, but how they'll show up, I don't know yet.
Proto-Vuluka
Proto-Vuluka would be SVO I think, plainly nom-acc, so moving north to south, this would be the first conlang that doesn't do something weird with its alignment. It will be somewhat inflectional on verbs, but would rely more heavily on syntax and particles to convey grammatical information.
Like Proto-Sjikan, though, it would still have a number of noun classes, which will likely affect verbal conjugation, in a similar manner to Proto-Sirdic, but the number of noun classes might be somewhat higher, possibly around about 8.
Proto-Gdrenk
I wanted Proto-Gdrenk to go in the opposite direction with morphology, being quite inflectional, possibly agglutinative, in relation to nouns (encoding for number, case and whether the noun is possessed or not), but with minimal marking on verbs (possibly just direction or manner and possibly person). Like Proto-Vuluka, it would be nom-acc and SVO. There wouldn't be much in the way of noun classes, though, possibly none. This, as well, is where I also want to try out noun-incorporation.
Proto-Kalabi
Proto-Kalabi would be predominantly isolating, relying a lot on word order (SVO), and would be split-ergative in some respects. Like Lesi Kirra, there would be some kind of noun class system, but this might behave more like the classifiers of Japanese and the Chinese languages.
Proto-Feluo
Proto-Feluo will be SOV and heavily agglutinative, although there may be some affixes which indicate more than one piece of grammatical information, e.g. definiteness and number. Like the other languages of Sirden so far mentioned, it will be predominantly nom-acc and might have a few noun classes.
Proto-Mesit
Proto-Mesit, as mentioned in previous posts, will likely be agglutinative and subject to vowel harmony. It will be SVO and nom-acc. Verbs will be more heavily inflected than nouns, but nouns will take a fair degree of marking too.
What I want to do, really, is working on these kind of sporadically, mostly between the "major" language families of Yantas, and on an even lower level, I may try to throw in a few more minor language families, just to fill out the map a bit more. I'm aiming for around 50-60 language families spoken at around 1AD, some over huge areas, some language isolates spoken in a small area.
Proto-Tl'arga
Proto-Tl'arga will, I think, have an SVO word-order, be split-ergative, both morphologically and syntactically, and be somewhat fusional or agglutinative, relying more on auxiliaries and particles than conjugating verbs directly and declining nouns.
Proto-Sjikan
Proto-Sjikan will have an SOV word-order and be somewhat split-ergative (morphologically), but only to a fairly limited extent. It would be agglutinative, I think, especially on verbs, in a similar way to Proto-Skawlas, where nouns have fairly minimal morphology but verbs take a large number of morphemes appearing in set slots.
Proto-Sjikan might have a number of different noun classes, perhaps three or four, possibly based on animacy, but how they'll show up, I don't know yet.
Proto-Vuluka
Proto-Vuluka would be SVO I think, plainly nom-acc, so moving north to south, this would be the first conlang that doesn't do something weird with its alignment. It will be somewhat inflectional on verbs, but would rely more heavily on syntax and particles to convey grammatical information.
Like Proto-Sjikan, though, it would still have a number of noun classes, which will likely affect verbal conjugation, in a similar manner to Proto-Sirdic, but the number of noun classes might be somewhat higher, possibly around about 8.
Proto-Gdrenk
I wanted Proto-Gdrenk to go in the opposite direction with morphology, being quite inflectional, possibly agglutinative, in relation to nouns (encoding for number, case and whether the noun is possessed or not), but with minimal marking on verbs (possibly just direction or manner and possibly person). Like Proto-Vuluka, it would be nom-acc and SVO. There wouldn't be much in the way of noun classes, though, possibly none. This, as well, is where I also want to try out noun-incorporation.
Proto-Kalabi
Proto-Kalabi would be predominantly isolating, relying a lot on word order (SVO), and would be split-ergative in some respects. Like Lesi Kirra, there would be some kind of noun class system, but this might behave more like the classifiers of Japanese and the Chinese languages.
Proto-Feluo
Proto-Feluo will be SOV and heavily agglutinative, although there may be some affixes which indicate more than one piece of grammatical information, e.g. definiteness and number. Like the other languages of Sirden so far mentioned, it will be predominantly nom-acc and might have a few noun classes.
Proto-Mesit
Proto-Mesit, as mentioned in previous posts, will likely be agglutinative and subject to vowel harmony. It will be SVO and nom-acc. Verbs will be more heavily inflected than nouns, but nouns will take a fair degree of marking too.
What I want to do, really, is working on these kind of sporadically, mostly between the "major" language families of Yantas, and on an even lower level, I may try to throw in a few more minor language families, just to fill out the map a bit more. I'm aiming for around 50-60 language families spoken at around 1AD, some over huge areas, some language isolates spoken in a small area.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Languages of Yantas
So something a bit like this:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.