Hi guys! It has been a while since I haven't posted on the CBB, but I'm reading posts every day, especially the conlang section. I have been looking for Irish diachronics for a little less than a year. I can't seem to find anything though. Yes, there is indeed a very extensive explanation of what happened from Proto-Irish (Celtic?) to Old Irish on wikipedia, but there's nothing from Old Irish~Middle Irish to Modern Irish (including dialects). I wonder if any of you guys would know where to find that? Do you have documents? PDFs? It really hinders my "project".
(This can be also be used as a general Irish thread... If there's none already?)
Modern Irish (diachronics)
Re: Modern Irish (diachronics)
I suspect most could be worked out just by comparing old and modern irish... they don't look that different, phonologically? (and Irish has conservative spelling)
Are you having a specific problem we could help with?
(sorry, I don't know of such a resource. If you're on the ZBB, you could ask linguoboy about it; if you're not, I could ask on your behalf)
EDIT:
just for fun, I compared the Old Irish words on the wikipedia page with their descendents (using believed OI pronunciation rather than spelling):
marv-, kill > mar-
l'ég'-, leave > lig- (now only in the sense of 'allow', and "lig do", 'leave to')
súl', eye > súil
dorus, door > doras
mak, son > mac
b'eg, small > beag (though NB, pronunciation is irregular in this word)
ob, refuse > ob
brat, mantle > brat
brod, goad > brod
d'erc, hole > ?
d'erg, red > dearg
daLte, fosterling > dalta
k'eLde, who hide > I'm guessing that "cealtair", cloak or mask, is from the agent noun of the same root
aNta, of remaining > ?
aNde, who remain > ?
duv, black > dubh
moD, work > modh
muG, slave > mogh
klaD'ev, sword > claíomh
klaD'ev', swords > claimhte (nb genitive singular is still claímh)
im'b', butter > im
oDv, knot in tree > ?
d'elv, image > dealbh (statue)
marv, dead > marbh
b'iN'd', melodious > binn
k'eRd, skill > ceird (trade)
Long, ship > long
d'elg, thorn > dealg
arged, silver > airgead
in'G'en, daughter > iníon
iN'g'en, nail > ionga (wiktionary gives the OI as inga, but the Manx form shows the -n)
etc
Are you having a specific problem we could help with?
(sorry, I don't know of such a resource. If you're on the ZBB, you could ask linguoboy about it; if you're not, I could ask on your behalf)
EDIT:
just for fun, I compared the Old Irish words on the wikipedia page with their descendents (using believed OI pronunciation rather than spelling):
marv-, kill > mar-
l'ég'-, leave > lig- (now only in the sense of 'allow', and "lig do", 'leave to')
súl', eye > súil
dorus, door > doras
mak, son > mac
b'eg, small > beag (though NB, pronunciation is irregular in this word)
ob, refuse > ob
brat, mantle > brat
brod, goad > brod
d'erc, hole > ?
d'erg, red > dearg
daLte, fosterling > dalta
k'eLde, who hide > I'm guessing that "cealtair", cloak or mask, is from the agent noun of the same root
aNta, of remaining > ?
aNde, who remain > ?
duv, black > dubh
moD, work > modh
muG, slave > mogh
klaD'ev, sword > claíomh
klaD'ev', swords > claimhte (nb genitive singular is still claímh)
im'b', butter > im
oDv, knot in tree > ?
d'elv, image > dealbh (statue)
marv, dead > marbh
b'iN'd', melodious > binn
k'eRd, skill > ceird (trade)
Long, ship > long
d'elg, thorn > dealg
arged, silver > airgead
in'G'en, daughter > iníon
iN'g'en, nail > ionga (wiktionary gives the OI as inga, but the Manx form shows the -n)
etc
Last edited by Salmoneus on 02 Apr 2016 02:00, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Modern Irish (diachronics)
Yes, I tried comparing them, but it is more complicated than it looks. I wrote about the sound changes, but the grammar would also be interesting to know about. The verbal system changed a lot according to what I read about these two languages. I don't really post on the ZBB, so if you wanted to be bring my questions there I would be thankful.
About the specificity:
1. The vowel changes
2. The clusters
3. The verbal system
4. The nominal system (Like where do the different plural markers come from)
About the specificity:
1. The vowel changes
2. The clusters
3. The verbal system
4. The nominal system (Like where do the different plural markers come from)