(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here [2010-2020]

[protondonor]

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

ʀ > ɣ in all positions and then ɣ > h between vowels sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

EDIT: I meant a low vowel. Sorry. I get those confused all the time, which totally reversed the meaning of that sentence.

[Odkidstr]

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

ʀ > ɣ in all positions and then ɣ > h between vowels sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

What is a high vowel? Is that just the place of articulation within the mouth (so /i u/ etc.)? So /poʀ/ would become /pu/ or would it become /pou/?

[clawgrip]

I did something similar...I have [ʁ̞] as an allophone of /x/ after vowels + before voiced consonants, and in a descendant language, this developed into simple lengthening of the preceding vowel.

[cedh]

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

In Standard German, /ʀ/ is pronounced as a nonsyllabic [ɐ̯] in coda position, i.e. in V_C and V_# environments, producing centering/opening diphthongs. If the preceding vowel is /a/, the result is usually a long vowel [aː], and the sequences /ɪʀ ʏʀ ʊʀ/ may range from [ɪɐ̯ ʏɐ̯ ʊɐ̯] to [ɘː øː oː]. Dialectal variants for coda /ʀ/ include [ʌ̯], [ə̯], [ɜ̯], or even [e̯] (one cousin of mine pronounces Wurst as [vuːe̯st]; I personally have [vʊʌ̯st]).

[loglorn]

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

ʀ > ɣ in all positions and then ɣ > h between vowels sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Not that it isn't reasonable, but the opposite is more.

[Creyeditor]

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

In Standard German, /ʀ/ is pronounced as a nonsyllabic [ɐ̯] in coda position, i.e. in V_C and V_# environments, producing centering/opening diphthongs. If the preceding vowel is /a/, the result is usually a long vowel [aː], and the sequences /ɪʀ ʏʀ ʊʀ/ may range from [ɪɐ̯ ʏɐ̯ ʊɐ̯] to [ɘː øː oː]. Dialectal variants for coda /ʀ/ include [ʌ̯], [ə̯], [ɜ̯], or even [e̯] (one cousin of mine pronounces Wurst as [vuːe̯st]; I personally have [vʊʌ̯st]).

For me it's mostly length and vowel quality changes:

Wurst [vɔːst]
warst [vaːst]
schwörst [ʃvœːst]
wirst [vɜst] (not really sure, maybe it's front rounded?)
rürst [ʁ̞œːst]
bohrst [bɔːst]
It is a non-syllabic a-schwa after [e] though.

In some dialects in an area of western Germany that I used to visit often, they really have a higher vowel, something like [ɘ].

[Egerius]

Spoiler:

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

In Standard German, /ʀ/ is pronounced as a nonsyllabic [ɐ̯] in coda position, i.e. in V_C and V_# environments, producing centering/opening diphthongs. If the preceding vowel is /a/, the result is usually a long vowel [aː], and the sequences /ɪʀ ʏʀ ʊʀ/ may range from [ɪɐ̯ ʏɐ̯ ʊɐ̯] to [ɘː øː oː]. Dialectal variants for coda /ʀ/ include [ʌ̯], [ə̯], [ɜ̯], or even [e̯] (one cousin of mine pronounces Wurst as [vuːe̯st]; I personally have [vʊʌ̯st]).

For me it's mostly length and vowel quality changes:

Wurst [vɔːst]
warst [vaːst]
schwörst [ʃvœːst]
wirst [vɜst] (not really sure, maybe it's front rounded?)
rürst [ʁ̞œːst]
bohrst [bɔːst]
It is a non-syllabic a-schwa after [e] though.

In some dialects in an area of western Germany that I used to visit often, they really have a higher vowel, something like [ɘ].

For me (NRW), it's this:
Wurst [vʊə̯st]
warst [vaːst]
schwörst [ʃvøɐ̯st]
wirst [viə̯st ~ vɪːst]
rürst [ʁʏə̯st]
bohrst [bɔɐ̯st]

[Iyionaku]

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

ʀ > ɣ in all positions and then ɣ > h between vowels sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

What is a high vowel? Is that just the place of articulation within the mouth (so /i u/ etc.)? So /poʀ/ would become /pu/ or would it become /pou/?

High vowels are closed or nearly-closed vowels, e.g.
​
​ • [​y]
[ɨ]​ • ​[ʉ]​
[​ɯ]​ • [​u​]
​

[Isfendil]

Are we allowed to make requests to work with people on possible conlanging projects in this thread?

[DesEsseintes]

Are we allowed to make requests to work with people on possible conlanging projects in this thread?

I don't see why not, but that might warrant its own thread as well.

[Isfendil]

Are we allowed to make requests to work with people on possible conlanging projects in this thread?

I don't see why not, but that might warrant its own thread as well.

I would agree but I don't think that I have the authority to make such a mass thread. But who does? At any rate, till then I'll post my request here when I'm free.

[clawgrip]

If you have access to the "new topic" button, then you have the authority to make a thread. I'm not sure what you mean by a "mass thread" but just make one and ask people to join. If they're interested, they will.

[Isfendil]

If you have access to the "new topic" button, then you have the authority to make a thread. I'm not sure what you mean by a "mass thread" but just make one and ask people to join. If they're interested, they will.

Oh sorry no. Of course I know how to make regular threads, never mind. I assumed something else.

Also, on the topic of making a new thread, it's more I didn't want to clutter the subforum with another thread that might never get used again. I mean, the contact could just as easily be established here and continue via PMs or 3rd party communication, thereby averting said cluttering.

[Iyionaku]

I would agree but I don't think that I have the authority to make such a mass thread. But who does? At any rate, till then I'll post my request here when I'm free.

What have you had in mind, Isfendil?

[Isfendil]

I would agree but I don't think that I have the authority to make such a mass thread. But who does? At any rate, till then I'll post my request here when I'm free.

What have you had in mind, Isfendil?

The mass thread I was talking about would be a general requests thread like this one.

My own idea was that I wanted to make either an a priori protolanguage someone, or a semitic creole with someone who studied another natlang family extensively. Preferrably Satem IE or non IE. But at the moment I'm really busy so I was going to ask later.

[Ebon]

I would agree but I don't think that I have the authority to make such a mass thread. But who does? At any rate, till then I'll post my request here when I'm free.

What have you had in mind, Isfendil?

The mass thread I was talking about would be a general requests thread like this one.

My own idea was that I wanted to make either an a priori protolanguage someone, or a semitic creole with someone who studied another natlang family extensively. Preferrably Satem IE or non IE. But at the moment I'm really busy so I was going to ask later.

Can't help you with the creole, but the protolang sounds fun. Once you have more time feel free to hit me up.

[protondonor]

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

ʀ > ɣ in all positions and then ɣ > h between vowels sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

What is a high vowel? Is that just the place of articulation within the mouth (so /i u/ etc.)? So /poʀ/ would become /pu/ or would it become /pou/?

High vowels are closed or nearly-closed vowels, e.g.
​
​ • [​y]
[ɨ]​ • ​[ʉ]​
[​ɯ]​ • [​u​]
​

I actually meant a low vowel, [a ɑ ɐ]. I get high and low confused all the time for some reason.

[Odkidstr]

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

ʀ > ɣ in all positions and then ɣ > h between vowels sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

What is a high vowel? Is that just the place of articulation within the mouth (so /i u/ etc.)? So /poʀ/ would become /pu/ or would it become /pou/?

High vowels are closed or nearly-closed vowels, e.g.
​
​ • [​y]
[ɨ]​ • ​[ʉ]​
[​ɯ]​ • [​u​]
​

I actually meant a low vowel, [a ɑ ɐ]. I get high and low confused all the time for some reason.

Oh, that's good news actually. I could see possibly doing that (high vowels wouldn't look as good in the language to me). So far I'm leaning to just making it ʀ > s. Found it in the index diachronia and seemed rather simple. I guess I've got more thinking to do. Thanks for the help everyone

[loglorn]

Coda ʀ also surfaces as vowel length or as a high vowel in Danish and some varieties of German, IIRC.

ʀ > ɣ in all positions and then ɣ > h between vowels sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

What is a high vowel? Is that just the place of articulation within the mouth (so /i u/ etc.)? So /poʀ/ would become /pu/ or would it become /pou/?

High vowels are closed or nearly-closed vowels, e.g.
​
​ • [​y]
[ɨ]​ • ​[ʉ]​
[​ɯ]​ • [​u​]
​

I actually meant a low vowel, [a ɑ ɐ]. I get high and low confused all the time for some reason.

Oh, that's good news actually. I could see possibly doing that (high vowels wouldn't look as good in the language to me). So far I'm leaning to just making it ʀ > s. Found it in the index diachronia and seemed rather simple. I guess I've got more thinking to do. Thanks for the help everyone

Wow, which language was that on? Unconditional? Got me curious.

[Auvon]

Wow, which language was that on? Unconditional? Got me curious.

https://chridd.nfshost.com/diachronica/all#Palauan-ʀ_2

To Palauan, unconditional. Only example like that.