(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here [2010-2020]
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Seriously, I feel like a kid in candy land with this site. So many more unexpected and interesting gaps exist in inventories than I would have imagined were realistic. I am utterly fascinated.
Just a link for others:
http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~saphon/en/phonemes.php
Just a link for others:
http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~saphon/en/phonemes.php
- Frislander
- mayan
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
- Location: The North
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
I agree, it's an absolutely fantastic resource, and one that should definitely be on every conlanger's list of online bookmarks.Nachtuil wrote:Seriously, I feel like a kid in candy land with this site. So many more unexpected and interesting gaps exist in inventories than I would have imagined were realistic. I am utterly fascinated.
Just a link for others:
http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~saphon/en/phonemes.php
All they need to do now is a similar for New Guinea...
- alynnidalar
- greek
- Posts: 700
- Joined: 17 Aug 2014 03:22
- Location: Michigan, USA
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
I love how intuitive and easy to use that site is! A great resource.
- kinkinkijkin
- rupestrian
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 15 Mar 2017 00:57
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
what again is the name of the part of the language that dictates how a sentence or phrase within a sentence should sound to sound "not weird" to a speaker? I forgot the name of it and I want to look up tips for implementing and sticking to it.
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Uhhh. Are you talking about words like "that" (and their part if speech)? It's a group of grammatical words like complementizers and relative pronouns.kinkinkijkin wrote:what again is the name of the part of the language that dictates how a sentence or phrase within a sentence should sound to sound "not weird" to a speaker? I forgot the name of it and I want to look up tips for implementing and sticking to it.
Or doyou just mean grammar?
Spoiler:
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
I think they're talking about marked vs unmarked phrases.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
- Posts: 4331
- Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
A sentence that doesn't violate any of the grammatical principles of the language is said to be "grammatical", whereas a sentence that doesn't violate any of the grammatical and semantic principles of the language (i.e. doesn't sound "weird") is termed "felicitous". Is that what you are asking about?kinkinkijkin wrote:what again is the name of the part of the language that dictates how a sentence or phrase within a sentence should sound to sound "not weird" to a speaker? I forgot the name of it and I want to look up tips for implementing and sticking to it.
Or are you just asking about syntax? Syntax is the study of how parts of a sentence fit together to form a grammatical (and hopefully felicitous) utterance.
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5123
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Maybe the question was about Pragmatics? In what contexts are utterances felicitous ('not weird', as Des said)?
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
I was sort of thinking it might be pragmatics as well, even if the description doesn't quite fit.
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
- Posts: 4331
- Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
We must patiently await kinkinkijkin's return to see what they meant.
- kinkinkijkin
- rupestrian
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 15 Mar 2017 00:57
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
I meant sonically, by the way, not grammatically, sorry
very, very few conlangs actually take mind of it and most conlangers don't know what it is, but I've known about it since long before I even took interest in linguistics, and saw it brought up by someone on conlanging reddit with an actual official name for it...
like how "that is a cat" sounds weird and robotic in english but "that's a cat" sounds nice, or "henry sniffed the buffoon" sounds weirder than "steven wafted the idiot's scent"
very, very few conlangs actually take mind of it and most conlangers don't know what it is, but I've known about it since long before I even took interest in linguistics, and saw it brought up by someone on conlanging reddit with an actual official name for it...
like how "that is a cat" sounds weird and robotic in english but "that's a cat" sounds nice, or "henry sniffed the buffoon" sounds weirder than "steven wafted the idiot's scent"
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5123
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
That seems to be a matter of register, i.e. sociolinguistics.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
- Frislander
- mayan
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
- Location: The North
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
It sounds like they're trying to make a point about intonation.
- kinkinkijkin
- rupestrian
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 15 Mar 2017 00:57
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
I just thought of a better way to explain it:
phrase-level phonotactics
what is the proper name for this?
phrase-level phonotactics
what is the proper name for this?
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5123
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
There is definitely something like phrase level phonology and even utterance level phonology, which includes phonotactics.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
- Frislander
- mayan
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
- Location: The North
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
And that, my friends, is why knowing and using the standardised terminology is a good idea.
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
My initial guess was prosody. But not knowing/remembering the standardized terminology is why kinkinkijkin posed a quick question in the first place.Frislander wrote:And that, my friends, is why knowing and using the standardised terminology is a good idea.
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
-
- cuneiform
- Posts: 189
- Joined: 01 Jan 2017 14:03
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
So, there's a close demonstrative prefix 'nu-' that tacks onto nouns to show that they're closeby.
e.g. 'nu-ulok' -> 'nuulok'
THIS-MAN
This man
It's used already as a fixed form 'nuk' meaning 'he/she'. But I thought it would be fun if a gender distinction came about by tacking 'nu-' onto 'ríks' (girl) and having 'nuríks' mean 'she', while 'nuk' remained as 'he'.
However, I think some sound changes would occur. Firstly, 'í' [ɪ] would drop out, leaving 'nurks'. But my lang doesn't allow that sort of triple consonant cluster. So I am left with two viable forms 'nurk' and 'nuks'. Which do you think would be the one that 'nuríks' finally becomes? Or do you think a different soundchange would occur in that cluster?
In summary: nuríks ---> nurk OR nuks ?
e.g. 'nu-ulok' -> 'nuulok'
THIS-MAN
This man
It's used already as a fixed form 'nuk' meaning 'he/she'. But I thought it would be fun if a gender distinction came about by tacking 'nu-' onto 'ríks' (girl) and having 'nuríks' mean 'she', while 'nuk' remained as 'he'.
However, I think some sound changes would occur. Firstly, 'í' [ɪ] would drop out, leaving 'nurks'. But my lang doesn't allow that sort of triple consonant cluster. So I am left with two viable forms 'nurk' and 'nuks'. Which do you think would be the one that 'nuríks' finally becomes? Or do you think a different soundchange would occur in that cluster?
In summary: nuríks ---> nurk OR nuks ?
- Frislander
- mayan
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
- Location: The North
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
nuks for me, definitely. i was a bit confused at first, because the acute on the í is associated for me with an accented/stressed/long vowel and is therefore not going to be reduced, but your romanisation is your romanisation.