Euta language

[Omzinesý]

Twinga is my newest project. It seems that my langs last around a week.

Goals
- simple CV syllable structure
- verbs are a closed class
- monosyllabic verbs with complex inflection (ideas from Navaho)
- light verbs are common

[Omzinesý]

Word classes

Verbs
- Monosyllabic CV
- A closed class
- Ablaut (vowel quality, length, nasalization, tone) marks five epistemic categories and three adverbial moods
Epistemic
• Egophoric
• Uncertain
• Sensory
• Fact
• Reportative
Adverbial
• Simultaneous (when, while)
• Posterior (and then)


Nouns
- Usually bisyllabic stems
- Four cases
• Nominative (actually direct, but called Nominative for simplicity)
• Dative (recipient and goal)
• Ablative (source, also 'made of', often adjective-like meanings)
- Locative (location, instruemnt)
- Case and specificity forms are formed with a vocalic suffix
- plural is marked only sporadically
- Has three declensions
- Generic-noun classifiers are used

[Omzinesý]

Phonology

Syllable structure is simple (C)wV.
The glide w can though appear only before unrounded vowels.

/w/ could also be analysed as part of diphthongs /wä wi we/. It is though not a tone bearing unit.

consonants:
p t k ʔ <p t k '>
ɾ ɟ <r j>
s h <s h>
m n ŋ
mb nd ŋg
ɹ j w <đ y w>

ɾ and ɟ don't appear word-initially.

Vowels:
i u
e o
ä

All vowels can be
- nasalized
- lengthend
- have low tone <a> or high tone <á> (long vowels can have rising tone <aá> or lowering tone <áa>.

Nasalization of vowels spreads to both directions until these is an obstruent (plosive, prenasalized plosive or fricative) that stops it.*

* I have to consider more how prenasalized stops work. Do they stop nasalization only when it is progressive?

[sangi39]

Nasalization of vowels spreads to both directions as long as it meets an obstruent (plosive, prenasalized plosive or fricative).*

* I have to consider more how prenasalized stops work. Do they stop nasalization only when it is progressive?

Does this mean that nasalisation spreads through plosives, prenasalised plosives, and fricatives, or that those particular sounds stop nasal spreading?

[DesEsseintes]

It seems that my langs last around a week.

Felt.

[Omzinesý]

Verb morphology is based on ideas from Navaho. The vowel of the verb changes its length, tone, and nasality. Some verbs have also ablaut between /e/ and /i/ and between /o/ and /u/.
The inflection is very irregular. There are just around 30 verbs. There are some tendencies, like egophoric and uncertain forms usually have a nasal vowel, but they are not absolute.

The copula verb 'to be'

EGO kąą
SENSORY ka
FACT ká
REPORTED káa
UNCERTAIN ką́ą

ADVERBIAL1 kaa
ADVERBIAL2 ką́
ADVERBIAL3 káá

I have not really decided how many adverbial moods there will be.

[Omzinesý]

Nasalization of vowels spreads to both directions as long as it meets an obstruent (plosive, prenasalized plosive or fricative).*

* I have to consider more how prenasalized stops work. Do they stop nasalization only when it is progressive?

Does this mean that nasalisation spreads through plosives, prenasalised plosives, and fricatives, or that those particular sounds stop nasal spreading?

I should mean that they stop it. That feature is borrowed from Guaraní and Yoruba.
I had some problems formulating it. Now it's maybe said more clearly.

[sangi39]

Nasalization of vowels spreads to both directions as long as it meets an obstruent (plosive, prenasalized plosive or fricative).*

* I have to consider more how prenasalized stops work. Do they stop nasalization only when it is progressive?

Does this mean that nasalisation spreads through plosives, prenasalised plosives, and fricatives, or that those particular sounds stop nasal spreading?

I should mean that they stop it. That feature is borrowed from Guaraní and Yoruba.
I had some problems formulating it. Now it's maybe said more clearly.

I thought in Guarani nasal harmony, it was a stressed oral vowel that stopped nasalisation spreading, but it was only the voiced consonants had nasal allophones (that appear before nasal vowels, such that the prenasalised plosive allophones only appear before an oral vowel)

Apparently in Ikwerre, fricatives and plosives that stop the spread of nasalisation, though, and it seems like there's a cross-linguistic tendency towards "blocking" to occur along a hierarchy, with vowels being the most transparent, and then, laryngeals > glides > liquids > fricatives, and finally plosives being the most likely block it (nasal stops then tend to appear between liquid and plosives, but can also appear at the position of glides, or liquids)


As for the prenasalised stops, I'd think they might follow the Guarani pattern, appearing as nasals before a nasal vowel but prenasalised before an oral one (just because that way you don't have a sequence like mbą́ where there's a "nasal-oral-nasal" "complex contour" across the CV syllable, where mą́ would be wholly nasal, vs. mbá where there's a "nasal-oral" "simple contour" across the syllable)

[Omzinesý]

I thought in Guarani nasal harmony, it was a stressed oral vowel that stopped nasalisation spreading, but it was only the voiced consonants had nasal allophones (that appear before nasal vowels, such that the prenasalised plosive allophones only appear before an oral vowel)

Yes, it's not supposed to be what Guaraní does. I thought Igbo and Yoruba are more similar to my system, but apparently I understood it wrong.

Apparently in Ikwerre, fricatives and plosives that stop the spread of nasalisation, though, and it seems like there's a cross-linguistic tendency towards "blocking" to occur along a hierarchy, with vowels being the most transparent, and then, laryngeals > glides > liquids > fricatives, and finally plosives being the most likely block it (nasal stops then tend to appear between liquid and plosives, but can also appear at the position of glides, or liquids)

That is interesting!
It could actually work to simplify the system so that vowels are not nasalized due to other nasal vowels.
I just thought that, in English, vowels are nasalized before nasal consonants and, in Guaraní and Yoruba, some voiced consonants are nasalized next to a nasal vowel, so I came up with a string rule where the vowel nasalizes a consonant and the consonant nasalizes a vowel, until there is a consonant that cannot be nasalized.
Do you happen to have a source where I could read more about the cross linguistic tendency of "blocking" nasalization?

As for the prenasalised stops, I'd think they might follow the Guarani pattern, appearing as nasals before a nasal vowel but prenasalised before an oral one (just because that way you don't have a sequence like mbą́ where there's a "nasal-oral-nasal" "complex contour" across the CV syllable, where mą́ would be wholly nasal, vs. mbá where there's a "nasal-oral" "simple contour" across the syllable)

That is more or less what I was aiming for.
Then I realized that the distinction between prenasalized stops and nasals must be phonemic if it's going to block nasalization.

[sangi39]

I thought in Guarani nasal harmony, it was a stressed oral vowel that stopped nasalisation spreading, but it was only the voiced consonants had nasal allophones (that appear before nasal vowels, such that the prenasalised plosive allophones only appear before an oral vowel)

Yes, it's not supposed to be what Guaraní does. I thought Igbo and Yoruba are more similar to my system, but apparently I understood it wrong.

Apparently in Ikwerre, fricatives and plosives that stop the spread of nasalisation, though, and it seems like there's a cross-linguistic tendency towards "blocking" to occur along a hierarchy, with vowels being the most transparent, and then, laryngeals > glides > liquids > fricatives, and finally plosives being the most likely block it (nasal stops then tend to appear between liquid and plosives, but can also appear at the position of glides, or liquids)

That is interesting!
It could actually work to simplify the system so that vowels are not nasalized due to other nasal vowels.
I just thought that, in English, vowels are nasalized before nasal consonants and, in Guaraní and Yoruba, some voiced consonants are nasalized next to a nasal vowel, so I came up with a string rule where the vowel nasalizes a consonant and the consonant nasalizes a vowel, until there is a consonant that cannot be nasalized.
Do you happen to have a source where I could read more about the cross linguistic tendency of "blocking" nasalization?

As for the prenasalised stops, I'd think they might follow the Guarani pattern, appearing as nasals before a nasal vowel but prenasalised before an oral one (just because that way you don't have a sequence like mbą́ where there's a "nasal-oral-nasal" "complex contour" across the CV syllable, where mą́ would be wholly nasal, vs. mbá where there's a "nasal-oral" "simple contour" across the syllable)

That is more or less what I was aiming for.
Then I realized that the distinction between prenasalized stops and nasals must be phonemic if it's going to block nasalization.

I was using this PDF as my source

One option could be for prenasalised stops to be transparent in only one direction, e.g. they allow nasalisation to spread regressively, leftward through the word, but then blocks it when it's spreading progressively, rightward through the word. For example, /aᵐbã/ > [ãmã] vs. /ãᵐba/ > [ãᵐba]

[Omzinesý]

I was using this PDF as my source

I'll read that.

One option could be for prenasalised stops to be transparent in only one direction, e.g. they allow nasalisation to spread regressively, leftward through the word, but then blocks it when it's spreading progressively, rightward through the word. For example, /aᵐbã/ > [ãmã] vs. /ãᵐba/ > [ãᵐba]

That could be how they work.

[Omzinesý]

Phonology

Syllable structure is simple (C)wV.
The glide w can though appear only before unrounded vowels.

/w/ could also be analysed as part of diphthongs /wä wi we/. It is though not a tone bearing unit.

[...]

Vowels:
i u
e o
ä
[...]

I'm going to drop the glide in the syllable structure.

On the other hand there will be affricates ai, au, ei, eu, oi, ou.

That is a very boring vowel inventory. But I don't think the vowel inventory is the key.
But there may be some changes that make it more interesting later.

The vowel inventory what the w glide before unrounded vowels has been one of my favorites for long, but it still hasn't found a lang.

The name of the language should also be changed. The possible name I'm planning is Nooha.

[Omzinesý]

There are four noun cases, Nominative, Locative, Dative, and Ablative. Nominative should thus actually be called a direct case, but for simplicity it is called Nominative. Most tokens of nouns are Nominatives. The other cases are a triplet of being somewhere, arriving there, and leaving. Locative also has the instrumental meaning. Because light verbs are so frequent, indirect objects in Dative or Ablative are common.

If the stem has an even number of syllables and it does not end in a closed vowel, or a long vowel or a diphthong, the case endings are
- Ablative: lengthening of the last vowel
- Locative -u which forms a diphthong with the last vowel
- Dative -i which forms a diphthong with the last vowel
If the stem has an odd number of syllables or ends in a long long vowel or diphthong or a closed vowel, the oblique stem, to which the case endings are added, is formed. It is formed by reduplicating the last consonant and adding the case endings -a, -u, and -i, for Ablative, Locative, and Dative respectively.

[Omzinesý]

Those case endings could also have a role in forming the subordinate moods.

Simultaneous -u from Locative
Posterior 'and then' -i from Dative

Nasalizion codes same subject.
No nasalization codes different subject.

In the main-clause moods, nasalization often codes egophoricity.

[Omzinesý]

In Yidiny, the preferred way to say 'X and Y are going.' seems to be 'X is going and Y is going.' I think even Toki pona does not do things that simply. It could though work in Nooha because its verbs are so short. Common arguments could be expressed just once.

'X read Y read the book.' meaning 'X and Y are reading the book.'
'X buy sweet buy cookies.' meaning 'X buys sweets and cookies.'

I think Nooha will not have a complementizer, so
'Susan say Mary say Bill kiss John.'
could either mean 'Susan said that Mary said that Bill kissed John.'
or 'Susan and Mary said that Bill kissed John.'
But I think the ambiguity is not fatal.

I think, for reciprocal action 'Bill and John are kissing [each other]' some other strategy should be developed.

[Knox Adjacent]

In Yidiny, the preferred way to say 'X and Y are going.' seems to be 'X is going and Y is going.' I think even Toki pona does not do things that simply. It could though work in Nooha because its verbs are so short. Common arguments could be expressed just once.

Literally no. Add -ba to each coordinand and just use one verb. At least for human referents. Page 177 and 415 of A Grammar of Yidiɲ. Don't even need an overt 2nd reference.

[Omzinesý]

In Yidiny, the preferred way to say 'X and Y are going.' seems to be 'X is going and Y is going.' I think even Toki pona does not do things that simply. It could though work in Nooha because its verbs are so short. Common arguments could be expressed just once.

Literally no. Add -ba to each coordinand and just use one verb. At least for human referents. Page 177 snd 415 of A Grammar of Yidiɲ. Don't even need an overt 2nd reference.

I guess you are right.
Young Dixon is not the most explicit writer. Once he says that the -ba construction is optional and once that it must be used. But apparently repeating the clause is just some kind of a "deep structure".

I think that's still a nice idea in Nooha. Though maybe not a very naturalistic one?

[Omzinesý]

I thought in Guarani nasal harmony, it was a stressed oral vowel that stopped nasalisation spreading, but it was only the voiced consonants had nasal allophones (that appear before nasal vowels, such that the prenasalised plosive allophones only appear before an oral vowel)

Yes, it's not supposed to be what Guaraní does. I thought Igbo and Yoruba are more similar to my system, but apparently I understood it wrong.

Apparently in Ikwerre, fricatives and plosives that stop the spread of nasalisation, though, and it seems like there's a cross-linguistic tendency towards "blocking" to occur along a hierarchy, with vowels being the most transparent, and then, laryngeals > glides > liquids > fricatives, and finally plosives being the most likely block it (nasal stops then tend to appear between liquid and plosives, but can also appear at the position of glides, or liquids)

That is interesting!
It could actually work to simplify the system so that vowels are not nasalized due to other nasal vowels.
I just thought that, in English, vowels are nasalized before nasal consonants and, in Guaraní and Yoruba, some voiced consonants are nasalized next to a nasal vowel, so I came up with a string rule where the vowel nasalizes a consonant and the consonant nasalizes a vowel, until there is a consonant that cannot be nasalized.
Do you happen to have a source where I could read more about the cross linguistic tendency of "blocking" nasalization?

As for the prenasalised stops, I'd think they might follow the Guarani pattern, appearing as nasals before a nasal vowel but prenasalised before an oral one (just because that way you don't have a sequence like mbą́ where there's a "nasal-oral-nasal" "complex contour" across the CV syllable, where mą́ would be wholly nasal, vs. mbá where there's a "nasal-oral" "simple contour" across the syllable)

That is more or less what I was aiming for.
Then I realized that the distinction between prenasalized stops and nasals must be phonemic if it's going to block nasalization.

I was using this PDF as my source

One option could be for prenasalised stops to be transparent in only one direction, e.g. they allow nasalisation to spread regressively, leftward through the word, but then blocks it when it's spreading progressively, rightward through the word. For example, /aᵐbã/ > [ãmã] vs. /ãᵐba/ > [ãᵐba]

a) One alternative would be just to drop the nasal harmony altogether.
When I first planned the phoneme inventory, I decided that Nooha will have glottalized approximants. Then I gave them up when I got interested in nasal harmony. It would be too messy to have both. So, the glottals could return.
Nasal consonants and prenasalized stops could also be in complementary distribution, so that the stop part would not appear before a nasal vowel. (That's what Sangy suggested and I think it sounds good.)
There could still be a tendency to have several phonemic nasal vowels in a word, if there is one, but no need for a harmony rule.

b) On the other hand, I like the idea of a nasal harmony.
I had a glance at the paper. There seems to be no big problems in my original system. It was more or less compatible with the hierarchy of the paper.

Basically, if there is a nasal vowel, everything in the word towards both directions is nasals as long as there is a consonant that stops nasality from spreading.
The consonants that stop nasality are the non-glottal stops /p t k/, the short voiced stops/taps /ɾ ɟ/, that historically derive from stops, and the fricative /s/. The paper says that glottals (Nooha /ʔ h/) rarely stop nasality from spreading.

It's of course still possible to have words like ąką. Both ą's are just part of two distinct nasal domains. Words like ąwa are, on the other hand, not permitted cos nasality always goes through /w/.

There is still the issue with nasals stops (m n ŋ) and prenasalized stops (mb nd ŋg).
I like Sangi's idea that they are allophonic and nasals appear before nasal vowels and prenasalized stops before oral vowels.
A simple analysis could be that nasal consonants (as whichever allophone) stop nasalization. If there are nasal vowels on both sides of the nasal consonant, both vowels are nasal underlyingly.

Code: Select all

N
|
aMa
=> [ąmba]

N N
| |
aMa
=> [ąmą]

  N
  |
aMa
=> [amą]

What do you think?
Does the alternative a) sound typologically plausible?

[collect_gluesticks]

- verbs are a closed class
- light verbs are common

So the light verb constructions would be used in place of coining or deriving new verbs, right? I had no idea that this was a thing, but I just started reading about languages that work like this. I learned something new today - thanks! And a very neat idea to try in a conlang.

[Omzinesý]

- verbs are a closed class
- light verbs are common

So the light verb constructions would be used in place of coining or deriving new verbs, right? I had no idea that this was a thing, but I just started reading about languages that work like this. I learned something new today - thanks! And a very neat idea to try in a conlang.

Yes,
I have attempted many languages with verbs as a closed class but they have not gone very far. We will see what happens with this lang.
Thinking about verb semantics is extremely interesting within a closed class cos every verb must be considered separately.

if you have found very interesting sources on those languages, tell me too!