Keenir's script scratchpad

[Keenir]

This thread was originally titled "early greco-cherokee syllabary done for fun...

I'm thinking I'll focus, at least for now, on mini-projects, on little things I can do in less than a week.

Table of Contents:
* Abjads:
--------"cows eat grass"
* Syllabaries:
-------Greco-Cherokee:
-----------early notes - http://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=204600#p204600
----------My take on it - http://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=205468#p205468
----------Clawgrip's take on it + Latinized Linear B - http://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=205909#p205909

[Keenir]

Step One: find what are held in common (this post)

http://rodlox.deviantart.com/art/Fusing ... -558117316

Step Two: list what are held in common & decide which symbol from which syllabary will be used (next post)

Step Three: write something in it (next week, if ever; not sure i'll get this far)

and here is Step Two: http://rodlox.deviantart.com/art/Syllabary2-558352787


(didn't there used to be an Attachment feature here?)

[Thrice Xandvii]

If by attachment you mean embedding, then yes... But you need to link to an image, not a page containing an image, thusly:



The previous image:

Spoiler:

[cntrational]

Can you explain the logic behind this? I'm not seeing much Cherokee or Greek.

But maybe that's because it's not written in that thick Cherokee font.

[Keenir]

If by attachment you mean embedding, then yes... But you need to link to an image, not a page containing an image, thusly:

ah, okay; thank you.

Can you explain the logic behind this? I'm not seeing much Cherokee or Greek.

no logic involved; just a bit of fun.

and that's surprising...because it's 100% Cherokee and Linear B.

[Thrice Xandvii]

Yeah I recognize several Cherokee characters, but I'm less familiar with Linear B so I can't tell ya about those at all.

Do you plan on taking this little project any further or is this as far as it goes? I think it'd be interesting to come up with an Ancient language that mixes old old Greek with Cherokee.

[Keenir]

Yeah I recognize several Cherokee characters, but I'm less familiar with Linear B so I can't tell ya about those at all.

I highly recommend The Riddle Of The Labyrinth by Margalit Fox. covers the work and works of the three who worked so hard to decipher Linear B (not just Ventris), a chapter on the sort of glimpse this provides of the society who used Linear B, as well as having a page of deciphered glyphs, and a showing of which glyphs are still undeciphered.

Do you plan on taking this little project any further or is this as far as it goes? I think it'd be interesting to come up with an Ancient language that mixes old old Greek with Cherokee.

I wanted to get back from my vacation first & see how I felt, before I committed or nixed the thought of taking it further; having returned, I can say I believe I'll continue.

The main focus, at least for the time being, will be on the syllabary and the thus-formed script, seeing what looks best {left to right? boustrophon? spaces between words? Latinsrunningthingstogether?}. If I can make a conlang from that foundation, I will certainly try.

disclaimer: I'm going to assign my own IPA values (which <e>, for example), as neither the Cherokee Syllabary book (an introduction to the language, and the book's probably been in my library as long as I've been alive) nor Fox's book give IPA values.

[cntrational]

<t k d g ts qu> /th kh t k ts kw/
<tl dl> <tlh tl>)
<m n hn> /m n hn/
<h> /h/
<l w y> /l w j/

<a e i o u v> /a e i o u ə̃/

In this table, t and k represent /th/ and /kh/. These are clusters phonemically, but are realized as aspirates. qu tl dl hn /kw tlh tl hn/ are a clusters, as well. Unaspirates are voiced intervocally.

However, /k kh/ is only indicated in <ga>/<ka>, and /t th/ in <da de di>/<ta te ti>.

/ts/ is phonemic. The Latin orthography uses <ts dz> /tsh ts/, but not the syllabary

Yes, <v> is /ə̃/.

Consonant clusters are indicated by adding dummy vowels. <s> has its own letter, but /h/ and /ʔ/ in clusters are unwritten, except in <hn>.

Long vowels and tone are unwritten.

[Keenir]

thank you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_B#Syllabic_signs

Yes, <v> is /ə̃/.

well crap. I thought it was a part of consonant clusters; but as it isn't, that nixes about half my work (which, granted, consisted of matching)

[Keenir]

[clawgrip]

I once made a Greek/Latin-styled version of Linear B. I can show you what I came up with if you think it could help you out.

[clawgrip]

I combined your ideas with the Latinized Linear B I had already made, and got this:



It's all ultimately based on Times New Roman.

[Keenir]

I combined your ideas with the Latinized Linear B I had already made, and got this:



It's all ultimately based on Times New Roman.

very cool. thank you* - its great work.

* = for integrating my random thought, and for welcoming it into your neat font.

[Keenir]

* Abjads:
--------"cows eat grass"

At the library, I was looking through Comrie's Atlas and Dalby's Dictionary of Languages...and I thought to try my hand at one of those one-page entries. Partway through, I got distracted by the list of word orders, and how each group would arrange the words
cow & grass & eat

...and I ended up translating them into the following:

Ashshɛn tskɛ: tashsas
Aʃ.ʃɛn tskɛ: taʃ.sas
do.eat mass.count.noun Class:low.plants (not eaten)

gakkag dɛtap tɛggɛt
gak.kag dɛ.tap tɛg.gɛt
grass one Class:fur

ɛkkow
ɛk.kow
wooly.cow (loan word)

Eat. Grass . Cow

=Cows eat grass.

...and from there, I made an abjad:

[Sequor]

I like how you casually just continued a thread from 2015. Man, I miss clawgrip.

Your 2023 script is much more, uh, esoteric (if I may say) and maybe less practical than your previous conscript...

[Keenir]

I like how you casually just continued a thread from 2015.

If I can find an old thread of mine and use it, I usually prefer to do that. it both shows me if and how I've changed over time (not the same as progressing, i well know) and makes organizing them easier when i get my webpage up and running.

Man, I miss clawgrip.

ditto.
(i'd figured Clawgrip was on sabbattical)

Your 2023 script is much more, uh, esoteric (if I may say)

You may say. :)
(not sure how its esoteric...probably because I don't really know what esoteric is, sorry)

and maybe less practical than your previous conscript...

practicality is a future goal for me...right now, i'm still focused on making sure i understand how they work & that i can use them correctly.

thank you for your fb.

[Keenir]

Time for some Lexember!

For this month, I'm making Nalma.

December 1st: ʔanwa [ʔa.nwa] = "Do I...?", "What do I...?"

ʔanwa nee ʔanaps naa = what shall i count?" or "I should count...?" inviting a reply for instruction - ie, "go count sheep".







Some of the regions in Nalma include the following former kingdoms:
* Sadalanuutama - essentially "nuuta is written here" was the name of their kingdom which had been founded by a Nuuta-literate side branch of a royal family off to the north, who brought their writing system with them, spreading it across their domain. Sadalanuutama and Karsema requested Nalma arbitration when the two kingdoms were unable to come to an agreement on how they should reunite after the long separation which had seen each nation obtain their own writing systems. The Nalma did attempt it, as requested...but eventually took the two kingdoms over.

* Nalma - "nalma is written here"...though the the Nalma writing system - the Royal Script - was named for a mythical ancestor of the royal family who had founded the nation. Most historians agree that they were only able to take Karsema and Sadalanuutama into their holdings, because they made it so both nations's people could continue using their own writing systems -- which influenced the birth of the Nalma Royal Script at the time of the kingdom's founding.

* Karsema - "kars is written here". (TBD)


In the next image, there are four rows. These correspond to:

ROW ONE: The Royal Script is an alphabet for the most part. Two letters are <a> and <ml>, the latter of which can only be syllable-initial: <ML- > <A>

ROW TWO: One of the scripts of the provinces is Nuuta, which is a syllabary. This means we have <ma> and <la> on hand to correspond to the above Royal Script signs: <ma la>

ROW THREE: This is the layout of how the Royal Script and the Nuuta Syllabary are written in Nuuta-majority regions of the kingdom. {I tried to remember how Coe arranged Mayan translations; will correct when i look over his books again}
<ML- m(a) l(a) A (l)a>

ROW FOUR: During the short-lived Rebellion Period, one province's governor-turned-king oversaw two attempts to reform the script layout. Early in his kingship, the phonetic signs were all placed following the main vowel: <MLA- m(a) la>

...while shortly before the death of himself and his loyalists, the repeated phonetic sign was removed, leaving the syllable to end with the main vowel: <ML- m(a) la A>