Someone in the house next to ours started singing

[Lambuzhao]

Anaks, sums in bisitandamma razna anastodida du siggwan.
All of a sudden, someone in the house next to ours started singing.

#1 - I do not think you need 'du' there; the simple INF ought to do duty therein.
#2 - There are plenty of examples in Wulfilas where the simple verb is used w/o stating "began to", and an ADV like 'anaks' or 'sunsaiw' lending the inchoative/inceptive flavor.
#3 - I am surprised at the choice of 'anastodjan' - why not 'dugann'? There are a number of examples from Wulfilas using dugann + INF ( Mt 11:7, Mt 11:20, Mt 26:74, Mk 1:45, Mk 4:1, Mk 4:20, Mk 4:22, etc).

1 - du can be omitted, true, but I felt like it could be used there. I'm not sure on the true grammatical purpose of du, but the Bible uses both forms.

Can you cite a passage or two with 'anastodjan du... ' ?

The only hits I get are things like
du Aifaisiaum anastodeiþ [epistle] to the Ephesians begins

aiwaggeljo þairh Lukan anastodeiþ the gospel of Luke begins


which see-
https://books.google.com/books?id=I5IFC ... BE&f=false

3 - Flavour, I guess. We know that the Bible was heavily based on Greek grammar, so it's probably up to us to choose how we want to handle various synonyms and words.

Just because is a heavily-inflected Germanic language, does not mean that Wulfilas was unduly influenced, or even hamstrung, by Greek predecessors. To be sure, there are some vocab liftings and word-choice/idioms that are calques or outright pilferings, but Gothic is a beautiful language with its own special quirks. Nevertheless, anastodjan is pretty much used intransitively

E.g.

Here's where the story begins



while dugann (duginnan) is more often than not transitive,

E.g.
I began the story like this.
I began to tell the story.

Furthermore, duginnan uses verbal (infinitival) predicates, as I cited beforehand.

It's kind of up to us when there's a word that isn't attested, and we have to backhoe to bring forward, but when Wulfilas left us some clear examples (and actually many, in the case of dugann) we're given the option to be creative in other ways.

[Lambuzhao]

I mean, you can see for yourself-

anastod(jan)
http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/browse/sea ... tod&mode=1


dugann (duginnan)
http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/browse/sea ... ann&mode=1

[alynnidalar]

(And now for a word from our sponsors:

Tirina

Karida, mosurenda ın enkema ote akan seto akan nume.
sudden INAN-begin.to-PST INDEF.SG.AN GER-sing in house next.to house 1.PL.MASC.POSS
All of a sudden, someone in the house next to ours started singing.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled discussion.)

[Void]

I mean, you can see for yourself-

anastod(jan)
http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/browse/sea ... tod&mode=1


dugann (duginnan)
http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/browse/sea ... ann&mode=1

So would you say that duginnan is more regular, and anastodjan is rather literary or even hieratic?

[Lambuzhao]

@ alynnidalar

How does one say " ¡Llama ahora y recibe gratis!" in Tirina??
i.e. "Call now and you'll receive at no additional cost..."

[alynnidalar]

Iser dudarn! Aldo muran! Mispilwa soa mue luan towupare yes onid TAL, las, TAL kerun ni penuid pin uwo hasupowen seri! KO pin orakuelan ni penuid uwo TON DUME ME'EL!
But wait! There's more! Call us now and you'll receive TWO, yes, TWO knife sets for just $19! AND a knife sharpener at NO EXTRA COST!

[Iyionaku]

Ular

砖寮右咱的砖寮左在什点得唱启有他。

Wũlpál rhŭl lár pō wũlpál nâr phū rū vâm tā wán phûn jù tōn.
[w̃ũl˧pɑl˥ ryl˥˦˧ lɛɹ˥ pɔ˧ w̃ũl˧pɑl˥ nɛɹ˥ pʰu˧ ɹu˧ ʋɑm˧˦˥ tɛ˧ wɑn˥ pʰun˥ ju˩ tin˧]
house right 1PL GEN house left inside someone suddenly TOP sing start PST 3SG.MASC
Suddenly, someone in the house next to ours started singing.

[Imralu]

Swahili:

Ghafla mtu kwenye nyumba iliyokuwa karibu na yetu alianza kuimba.
Suddenly, someone in the house which was next to ours started to sing.

Code: Select all

 ghafla    mtu        kw-enye  nyumba    i-li-yo-ku-w-a        karibu  na   y-etu     a-li-anz-a     ku-imb-a
 suddenly  person(1)  17-ORN   house(9)  9-PST-9.REL-EXT-be-Ø  near    COM  9-GEN.1P  1-PST-begin-Ø  INF(15)-sing-Ø
"suddenly  person     in/at    house     which-it-was          near    with ours      s/he-started   to-sing"

*17 is a locative class, used with the ornative "-enye", it is essentially a locative, meaning "(in/at/to/from)
place which has ..."

[Alessio]

Emilian - Dialàt Vgnulěṡ (specific dialect of an Italian local language)
Tót un trât, quelchidun indla cà 'd fianc l'à tachê a cantêr.
/tot ũː(n) traːt kwεlki'dũ indlɐ ka‿d fjãːk la takεː ɐ kɐntεːr/
Hard gloss. My attempt:
suddenly, someone in.DET.FS house next 3SG.MS have.3SG begun to sing

Notice the present perfect - Emilian almost never uses the past simple tense, which would be "al tachè" /al ta'kε/ instead of "l'à tachê" /la takεː/. Minimal difference even in pronunciation.

Italiano
Improvvisamente, qualcuno nella casa di fianco alla nostra cominciò a cantare.
/improvviza'mεnte kwal'kuːno nella 'kaːza di 'fjanko alla 'nɔstra komin'tʃɔ a kan'taːre/
suddenly someone in.DET.FS house next to.FS ours.FS begin.HPAST.3SG to sing

Extremely subject to dialectal varations of stressed /e ε o ɔ/ and of /z/ (which becomes for many speakers, especially in the south).

[ixals]

Cissian

Нагле, некто в домi порёд нашэго почал-е спявацi.
Náhlje, njékto v dómji pórjod nášeho počál-je spjavácji.
/ˈna.ɦʲlʲe ˈnʲe.kto‿u̯ ˈdo.mʲi ˈpo.rʲot ˈna.ʃe.ɦo poˈt͡ʃa.lʲe sʲpʲaˈʋa.t͡sʲi/
sudden-ADV, someone in house-SG.LOC next.to our-M.SG.GEN begin.PRF-PST=be.3SG.PRS sing-INF
Suddenly, someone in the house next to ours started singing.

[kiwikami]

HyPry

H'alwe nma o'c, rwo a'si rä chël ke dlwis thwa r'o rä'r.
ha alwe nma o ce i rwo a tja rä chël ke dlwith thwa rä o rä rä
IND sing loom arg2 ANI person PST IND inside LOC dwelling ANI near reach LOC 2 LOC LOC
[ʔɑ.lʷɜ ŋ͡mɑ ox r̥ʷo ɑ.si r̥æ kˣel kʰɜ t͡ɬʷis tʷˣɑ r̥o r̥ær]
Someone in the house next to ours started singing.

Arg2 is a placeholder for both the first and second arguments of the verb, and indicates that the following NP is an agent (normally the third argument).

Sialhuin

Gást Khus e Khus nheneon vire iagje brosunha.
gást khus e khus nh\en~en vire i\a-gh je brot-sinha
person house at(N) house 2\POSS~PL beside(P) 3\VOL.PFV.TEL-AUD something begin-sing
[gaɪ̯st xus ɛ xus ɳɛˈnẽ ˈβi.ɾɛ ˈja.xʲɛ ˈbro.soˌɳa]
Someone in the house next to ours started singing.

The at(N) and beside(P) glosses are due to several prepositions that differ depending on what part of speech they modify; these two have a specific set of forms for modifying NPs that are part of other PPs. (The nominal form of vire is fre, and its verbal form is fere; e's verbal and prepositional forms are i and ehe, respectively.)

[Znex]

Yorkish
Brait birt noen i t'hous wi ussʒen's at singe.
/prɛat pɪrt nʊən i‿t.huːs wɪt ˌʊs'ɕɛns ə sɪnk/
suddenly begin-PST IDEF.PRO.ANM in DEF=house beside 1PL.OBL-self=POSS INF sing
Suddenly, someone in the house next to ours began to sing.

[lsd]

3SDL
mÁn¶M´²Um¶Ãoß»ƒÇw»ƒÇß»´mÁ·
(my ears now hurt from loud voice of man in house near house of me...)

[Batz]

Naguil

Lunguel mel, benn enegue li ilgines tui unsambil mio.
/'lʊŋgwɛl 'mɛl bɛnː ɛ'neːɣwɛ 'li‿ɪl'giːnɛs 'tʰu.i ʊn'zambil 'mi.ɔ/
Lung-uel mel, ben-n e-neg-ue li il-g ines tui un-samb-il mio.
lightning.fast-ADV very, human-NOM DEF.ART-house-ABL inside 2PL-who-LOC.PL side 3SG.M/F-sing-PST start.
Very suddenly somebody from inside the house at our side started singing.

[Flavia]

Abaniscen

ahbaychurem, caren i veshtu i is i nele laynu na cancanar ahtanay.
[ʔapʼáːxuɾɛ̃m | kaɾɛ̃níːvøʃtu ʔʲiʔʲiɕínɛlɛláːjnũna kã́ːŋkãnaɾ ʔáːhtãnaj]
sudden-O | somebody-O REL house REL that REL 1p.O close LOC sing begin
Suddenly, someone in the house next to ours started singing.

[Arayaz]

Makihip

Kah tanonosawaphi tatakot menek p’emakxw’u.
kah ta-nono-saw-aphi ta-ta-kot menek p’e-ma-kxw’u
person 3sg-sing-begin-sudden.PST 3sg-3sg-be.in house REL-1pl-be.beside
[kah tanonosawapʰi tatakot menek pʼemak͡xʷʼu]
Suddenly, someone started singing in the house next to ours.

TC: 43%