River Skasti (new grammar)

[DV82LECM]

I am still working out the wider implications that this idea could entail, but I am looking to make Yulá Skásti Maskǫ́łe (The River Skasti Language) into a philosophical language of a sort. I could derive a people for this, but I likely won't. This is becoming a way that I derived to take my thoughts and convey them in a new fashion. As much, in a way that is reminiscent of my favorite language, Lakhota. That said, with the language, overall, I am attempting (to find a way) to pleasantly merge tense, aspect, and mood in as many ways as I can find. While wrestling with the idea that tense and aspect are sometimes hard to distinguish in natural languages, that took me to realizing my abundant mood slot could almost completely alleviate tense. I then recalled how, in an earlier post, I claimed to have found the future subjunctive. See, I am wanting to merge tense with the hypothetical mood, like one can seem to merge tense with conditionality in the past/future subjunctive. If I were to merge tense with the hypothetical, this feels like it could be way to speak in a deictic manner about the inflowing nature of truth. The more we peer into the uncertainty of the past or future, the more we find that it flows into the present moment evermore clear, though its rate of revelation never is. The more we dig into the past, or chart a new theory, we get closer to "knowing" more about what we really will likely never know. To me, modern story telling seems to be able to speak very well in these terms. (Could these be likened to a past rooted in mythology, like with the gods? or how we modernly speak on Pangaea Ultima?)

This could be a way to talk about Steven Hawking's "imaginary time."

[Omzinesý]

I am still working out the wider implications that this idea could entail, but I am looking to make Yulá Skásti Maskǫ́łe (The River Skasti Language) into a philosophical language of a sort. I could derive a people for this, but I likely won't. This is becoming a way that I derived to take my thoughts and convey them in a new fashion. As much, in a way that is reminiscent of my favorite language, Lakhota. That said, with the language, overall, I am attempting (to find a way) to pleasantly merge tense, aspect, and mood in as many ways as I can find. While wrestling with the idea that tense and aspect are sometimes hard to distinguish in natural languages, that took me to realizing my abundant mood slot could almost completely alleviate tense. I then recalled how, in an earlier post, I claimed to have found the future subjunctive. See, I am wanting to merge tense with the hypothetical mood, like one can seem to merge tense with conditionality in the past/future subjunctive. If I were to merge tense with the hypothetical, this feels like it could be way to speak in a deictic manner about the inflowing nature of truth. The more we peer into the uncertainty of the past or future, the more we find that it flows into the present moment evermore clear, though its rate of revelation never is. The more we dig into the past, or chart a new theory, we get closer to "knowing" more about what we really will likely never know. To me, modern story telling seems to be able to speak very well in these terms. (Could these be likened to a past rooted in mythology, like with the gods? or how we modernly speak on Pangaea Ultima?)

This could be a way to talk about Steven Hawking's "imaginary time."

Tense and modality can really be merged. Future often merges with irrealis. (There is a debate if furure-nonfuture languages are really realis irrealis languages.)
You could check the discussion on mood-prominent languages viewtopic.php?p=323342#p323342

If you have more obscure ideas I would need examples to understand them.

[DV82LECM]

Thanks, I will look into it. I am honestly contemplating something along the lines of inference to temporal events based on the mythological past and future, but along the lines of the imagination. I want it to be a way to talk about things that did and will happen outside of the scope one's preferences of one outcome over another, and utilizing a similar construct of how the subjunctive talks about conditionality. I hope that makes a little more sense.

[DV82LECM]

I have been using this page as my board for the language's development over the last year. One of my posts almost has hį́ya edits. I have done a bit with the numbers but no one would ever see it. This is how my numbers work with large values.

hni /xni/ 100
hį́ya /ˈhĩja/ 1000
w̌lohį́ya /bloˈhĩja/ 10,000
ħįhį́ya /xĩˈhĩja/ 100,000
hęhį́ya /hẽˈhĩja/ 1,000,000

/xĩ-/ (one hundred...)
/hẽ-/ (one thousand...)
/blohẽ-/ (ten thousand...)
/xi̯ẽ-/ (one-hundred thousand...)
/he̯ã-/ (one million...)
•denasalize before nasal consonants.

mòahęhį́ya mòaħiemòmoahį́ya moaħìmoamádo
[ˌmo̯ahẽˈhĩja ˌmo̯axi̯eˌmomo̯aˈhĩja mo̯aˌximo̯a'mazo] 4,444,444

òąhęhį́ya ǫħìęwǫhį́ya ǫ̀ħįwų́rą
[ˌo̯ãhẽˈhĩja õˌxi̯ẽwõˈhĩja ˌõxĩˈwũɣã] 88,888,888
(my most nasalized word yet)

Also, some more vocabulary:
ą́w̌lį [ˈãblĩ] "bird" (Amblin)
ílą [ˈilã] "sky" (Elon Musk)
ęłyá [ẽˈdja] "to fly"
-ňmu~łuo [ŋmu~du̯o] "but/though"
htáki [ˈxtaki] "fire" (sounds like a firelog splitting)
htákco [ˈxtakso] "smoke"
škweą [ʃkwe̯ã] "honey"
mehtú [mexˈtu] "insect"
ìmeňú [ˌimeˈŋu] "flower"
dea [ze̯a] "stone/earth/rock" (Zeo)
łwe [dwe] "wood/trunk of a tree"; verb: "be wooden"
pįłwé [pĩˈdwe] "stick/branch of a tree"
pį [pĩ] "be small"; adverb: "in a small(er) way/a bit" (Pim)
mayé [maˈje] "be big/great"; adverb: "in a great(er) way/a lot"
máne [ˈmane] "skin" (Duh)
kmóamne [ˈkmo̯am.ne] "freshly-stripped tree bark/salve"
łwémne [ˈdwem.ne] "dead tree bark/kindling base"
cay̌ésta [saˈgesta] "center" (Sag A*)
zúswi [ˈðuswi] "to catch" (Zoozve)
y̌íełi [ˈgi̯edi] "be dirty/polluted" (Giedi)

Pùmaskǫ́zapį̀ Skásti (ƨɒx̖ƨıʌ) maskǫ́łę.
"I can speak a little Skasti."

Snúňonàħamàye, àmehtų́ ępùđahéštaknò!
[ˈsnu.ŋo.ˌna.xa.ˌma.je ˌa.mex.ˈtũ ẽ.ˌpu.d͡ʒa.ˈhe.ʃtak.ˌno]
"Fck yourselves, greatly, we will NOT eat the bugs!"

<•dɪw̗sʍ:eʍ̖ɤɵxɹv̗cxrʍ̗rv•>
"W̌lòhę'éščawùmayèyu"
[ˌblo.hẽ.ˈʔeʃ.t͡ʃa.ˌwu.ma.ˌje.ju]
"10,000 Maniacs" (the band)

Skasti proverb:
Adéa ayò'ęłyák'ozàyo a'ą́w̌lį ayò'ęłyázaňmu.
[a.ˈze̯a a.ˌjo.ʔẽ.'dja.k'o.ˌða.jo a.ˈʔã.blĩ a.ˌjo.ʔẽ.ˈdja.ðaŋ.mu]
"Stones might not be able to fly but birds can."

(Also, my base-10 numbers are the planets, the Sun, and Mardek (the asteroid belt).)

[DV82LECM]

Astronomical Terminology:
Cíy̌la [ˈsigla] "the Sun"
Awá [aˈwa] "the Moon"
Swéki [ˈsweki] "the Clouds"
Mayédea [maˈjeze̯a] "the Earth"
Ríšče [ˈɣiʃt͡ʃe] "the Stars"
Riškwéki [ɣi'ʃkweki] "the Milky Way/galaxy"
Ìląpáskwe [ˌilãˈpaskwe] "the Universe/space"
●páskwe [ˈpaskwe] "to open" (ílą "sky")

Directions:
T'į́w̌o [ˈt'ĩbo] "to where the Sun goes under/West"
Áłǫ [ˈadõ] "from where the Sun comes above/East"
Sle [sle] "from where the cold comes/North"
Hta [xta] "from where the heat comes/South"
•these words derive from roots of the same meaning, each "go up/above," "go down/below," "be cold," "be hot," respectively.

slépį "be cool"
slémayè "be freezing/be hypothermic"
slémayèpąyù "cryomancer"
htápį "be warm"
htámayè "be scorching/be feverish"
•basic definitions imply inanimate objects, the others imply animate objects.

Cíy̌la htámayè; Awá slémayè.
"The Sun is VERY hot; the Moon is VERY cold."

Ħahtámayèhna
[xax.ˈta.ma.ˌjex.na]
ħa-htámaye-{'a-na}
3f-be feverish-POT
"She may have a fever."

Ca-Pcí-Lo slémayèpąyù ta.
"Sub-Zero is a cryomancer."

Grammar update:
I have been mulling over how to incorporate past/future with the conditional AND the hypothetical moods. There are four base forms in the modality slot: -za (ability), -ža (desire), -ňa (conditionality), and -'a (hypothesis); -sna, -šna, -kna, and -hna derive from these four with the imperative. With the past/future merged with the conditional, we can get the subjunctive mood. In Skasti, tense merged with the hypothetical produces what I will call the superjunctive mood, where essentially implying the same thing, except differing in degrees of perceived likelihood or probability. These can be the constructions used to imply a mythological past/future. {-sna, -šna, -kna, -hna} can not be used in these constructions.

[eldin raigmore]

….
Sle [sle] "from where the cold comes/North"
Hta [xta] "from where the heat comes/South"
•these words derive from roots of the same meaning, each "go up/above," "go down/below," "be cold," "be hot," respectively.
….

This part of this language’s lexicon seems restricted to the Northron Temperate Zone?
Or at least the Northron Hemisphere?

Or is it planet-wide?
If it is spoken in both temperate zones, perhaps the Southron version has different words for North and South?
And/or, for Winter and Summer?

[DV82LECM]

….
Sle [sle] "from where the cold comes/North"
Hta [xta] "from where the heat comes/South"
•these words derive from roots of the same meaning, each "go up/above," "go down/below," "be cold," "be hot," respectively.
….

This part of this language’s lexicon seems restricted to the Northron Temperate Zone?
Or at least the Northron Hemisphere?

Or is it planet-wide?
If it is spoken in both temperate zones, perhaps the Southron version has different words for North and South?
And/or, for Winter and Summer?

Fair point. The truth is, I wanted to actually imply a language with only two roots for cardinal directions, East and West. However, I could not figure what to actually call North or South. I try to keep my root development to generalized objective truths, but you make a good point. Now, we both know where *we* live, so we know how the weather can fluctuate. I have not been certain if I will ever have a distinct people in mind, but I keep a rough template in my head. I was figuring these people could live in a northerly range, just to make my "world," through roots, make sense.

[DV82LECM]

Expansion of possession:
/ˈtxVpã/ "give"
/ˈtxVju/ "carry/hold"
/ˈtxVji/ "take to"
/ˈtxVje/ "bring from"
•these conjugate.

/ˈtapã/ "make" (cause-to-(statively)-be)

Łíw̌ietù'elìdię wew̌yá.
[ˈdi.bi̯e.ˌtu.ʔe.ˌli.zi̯ẽ we.ˈbja]
"I am DV82LEZM" (That is what I meant it to be.)

/-θi/ allative "to(ward)"
/-ʃe/ ablative "from"

Ehyá sléhpǫ, a'ą́w̌lį Htási ęłyá.
"When it gets cold, birds fly South."

Łwę itǫ́ htákisì ikó tutħíeyikòanacìyo htákcǫ tùmayépą. Àkolúhuňàyo ku aškayéňayò ępèđipúląyàpą.

[dwẽ iˈtõ ˈxta.ki.ˌθi iˈko tut.ˈxi̯e.ji.ˌko̯a.na.ˌsi.jo ˈxtak.sõ ˌtu.ma.ˈje.pã ˌa.ko.ˈlu.hu.ˌŋa.jo ku ˌa.ska.ˈje.ŋa.ˌjo ẽ.ˌpe.d͡ʒi.ˈpu.lã.ˌja.pã]

łwe-~ itǫ́ htáki-si ikó tu-tħ>ie<yi-ku-{ňa-na}-ci-yo htákco-~ tu-mayé-pą a-ko-lúhu-ňa-yo ku a=š-ka-ye-ňa-yo ę=pe-đi-púlą-ňa-pą

wood-ACC that fire-ALL there 2p.4p-take-NEG.EXH.PERF.CLS smoke-ACC 2p.4p-be big-CAUS SUBJ.PLR=3m.4p-see-COND.CLS here SUBJ.PLR=INTRNS.IMM.FUT-3m-come-SUBJNC.CLS DUAL.PLUR=3m.1p-TRNS.IMM.FUT-die-SUBJNC.CAUS

"You shouldn't have taken that wood to the fire there to make a lot of smoke. If they see it, they will come here to kill us."

[DV82LECM]

Family:
đǫ [d͡ʒõ] "father"
lóra [ˈloɣa] "mother"
/*d͡ʒoɴ/ + /*lóɡ͡ɣa/ > /*d͡ʒóɴloɡ͡ɣa/ >
/*d͡ʒóɴlɡ͡ɣa/ > /*d͡ʒṍtk͡xa/ > /ˈd͡ʒõtxa/
đǫ́tħa [ˈd͡ʒõtxa] "parents"
wémi [ˈwemi] "baby"
ňáyi [ˈŋaji] "boy/son"
áyi [ˈaji] "girl/daughter"
ňéayi [ˈŋe̯aji] "children"
hána [ˈhana] "sister"
w̌láhli [ˈblat͡ɬi] "brother"
w̌láhne [ˈblaxne] "siblings"
nakíę [naˈki̯ẽ] "friend"
líłu [ˈlidu] "be innocent"

That's it. I am grammared out, today.

[DV82LECM]

I hope it's not a bad thing to continue to update for sake of a few drops of vocabulary.

mno [m̩ˈno~ˈmno] "to sleep (make reference to one's sleep)"
mnóhlu [m̩ˈnoɬu~ˈmnoɬu] "to dream"
mnópą [m̩ˈnopã~ˈmnopã] "to put to sleep"
mnópħą [m̩ˈnopxã~ˈmnopxã] "to put oneself to sleep"

Knowledge/Evidentiality:
hwea [fe̯a] "to know/be familiar with"
hwéałe [ˈfe̯ade] "knowledge"
hwéamayè [ˈfe̯amaˌje] "to know a lot"
hwéapį [ˈfe̯apĩ] "to know a little"
hwéapą [ˈfe̯apã] "to teach"
hwéapħą [ˈfe̯apxã] "to learn"
•this is what covers the closest thing to evidentiality in the language.

Puhwéa
"I know/am familiar with it."

Puhwéaku
"I do not know/am not familiar with it."

Puhwéamayè
"I know a lot about it."

Puhwéakumàye
"I do not know a lot about it."

Puhwéapį
"I know a little bit about it."

Puhwéakupį̀
"I know more about it than you think."
(lit. "I do not know a little.")

Šǫ̀w̌uhwéanaspę̀pį!
DUAL.PLUR=4p.1p-know-EXCL.PERF.CAUS-be small
"They have dumbed us down!"
(lit. "They have taught us (very) little.")

Hi wemnóš'ęyò tuhwéakma?
[hi wem.ˈno.ʃ'ẽ.ˌjo tu(p̪).ˈfe̯ak.ma]
"Don't you know that I am trying to go to sleep, right now?"
•/-jo/ can be attached to a secondary clause in order to keep the question word at the end of a phrase, as often as possible.

[DV82LECM]

Slight grammar update; passive clauses:

-ye and passive voice:

●ɒʍ̗əʌɪv̖svɒv̗•
Kèdilúhukù
[ˌke.zi.ˈlu.hu.ˌku]
ke-di-lúhu-ku
3m.3f-TRNS.IMM.PST-see-NEG
"He didn't just see her."

●ɒx̖rʍ•ƨ̊xɪv̖svbɪw̗:•
Káye s'alúhuy̌lǫ̀
[ˈka.je s'a.ˈlu.hu.ˌglõ]
ka-ye s-ħa-lúhu-ku-tą
3m-PROL 3f.INTRNS.IMM.PST-see-NEG.PASS
"She wasn't just seen by him."

●ɹn̗ʋxɒn̖:•ɪʍıɛw̖•
Wìenakíę letħó
[ˌwi̯e.na.ˈki̯ẽ let.ˈxo]
wie-nakíę le-tħo
1p.GEN-friend 2p-be-(statively).NEG
"You are not my friend."

●ɹʍ̖rʍ•ɹʌ̗ʋxɒn̖:ʊxdɪx̗:•
Wéye wìnakíęžaw̌lą̀
[ˈwe.je ˌwi.na.ˈki̯ẽ.ʒa.ˌblã]
we-ye wi-nakíę-ža-{pą-tą}
1p-PROL 1p.2p-friend-DES.CAUS.PASS
"I want to make you my friend."
(lit. 'I want to make you be friend-ed by me.')

•those are Skasti phrasal onset-connection-coda markers (totally mimicking Tibetan).

-ha and the reflexive voice:
•in transitive constructions, /ha/ can be used to infer the construction "X and Y both do the same thing."
•in intransitive constructions, use with the reflexive accomplishes the reciprocal voice.

Ikó káha awìdilúhu.
"He and I both just saw you there."

Káha ìeswelúhuħą̀.
"He and I both saw each other yesterday."

[DV82LECM]

Expansion of Being States:
●though they are complimentary forms, there is a difference between w̌ya and ta:

•/bja/ is the internal world; one's Self.
•it represents someone's experience of life.
•this is said as oneself, inferring to one's agency to state what oneself is.

Íeyu wew̌yá.
"I am a person."

•/ta/ is one's external world; corporeal body.
•it is addressing the stativity of another (or oneself) as an object, not any inherent quality, only that it is present in reality; it is the language's equivalent of "(there) is."
•to address stative verbs and the passive voice -tą: both could produce this effect but statives are a perceived descriptive quality and passivity is an action valency change; as much, there is -łe, the abstract nominal marker; these markers derive from each other.
•it is almost chiefly associated with nouns.

Kayíyu katá.
"He is a man."

•now, if there is a necessity or desire of understanding one's inner state, you use /bja/ :

Kaw̌yáma? Kađóma?
"How is he? Is he happy?"

•finally, any reference to one's own placement, you use /ta/:

Ku wetá.
"I am here."

Skasti's first "poem":
●n̖rv•ɹʍdrx̖•
●sʌ•ɒv•ɹʍıx̖•
[ˈi̯eju weˈbja hi ku weˈta]
"I am human. I am here, now."

[DV82LECM]

Full list of Skasti nominal cases:

Nominative: /-∅/
la "the water (subject)"

Accusative: /-~/
lą "the water (object)"

Genitive: /-:/
lá'a "belonging to the water"

Dative: /-lu/
lálu "to/for the water"

Locative: /-ʔu/
lá'u "at/on/inside the water"

Andative: /-θi/
lási "toward the water"

Adessive: /-s'u/
lás'u "onto/into the water"

Venative: /-ʃe/
láše "from the water"

Elative: /-ʃ'o/
láš'o "off of/out of the water"

Superessive: /-bu/
láw̌u "above the water"

Subessive: /-do/
láło "(deep) underneath the water."

Perlative: /-wo/
láwo "along/next to/on the side of the water"

Prolative/Instrumental: /-je/
láye "by (means of)/using/through the water"

Comitative: /-ha/
láha "with/and the water"

Privative: /-x'a/
láh'a "without the water"

Comparative: /-te/
láte "similar to/like the water"

Partative: /-pi/
lápi "some of/part of the water."

Vocative: /-ka/
Láka! "oh, Water!"

Awéh'a yíkno!
"Don't go without us!"

Láte yoyúsna.
"One must be still like water."

[DV82LECM]

Skasti Root:
•root template: ((C)V(V))(C)CV(V)((C)CV(V)).
•clusters cannot begin 3-syllable roots.
•stress is trochaic on all sides from the stressed root syllable.
•only nouns, verbs, and particles.

Root Stress Patterns:
CV y̌lų
CV́CV máne
CVCV́ y̌emóa
CV́CVCV éščawù
CVCV́CV heščíke
CVCVCV́ ìmeňú

This was just fleshing out an older fundamental.

[DV82LECM]

The partitive /-pi/ -- "some," "each," and fractions (apparently)

•the partitive in Skasti is best translated as "part/some of."
•with a singular noun, it means "a part of."
•with the plural marker /a-/, it means "some of."
•with ordinal numbers, it means "each of."
•with the construction of one cardinal number with another +
/-pi/ creates fractions:

Éasi máłepì.
"3/5ths (three of five parts)"

Will come up with more examples.

New vocab:

ћit'é [xiˈt'e] "be important/famous/of high favor or worth"
w̌lea [ble̯a] "work/labor/do chores" (Brea, CA; city my dad worked)
y̌lea [gle̯a] "sing" (Glee)
ékci [ˈeksi] "heart"
hyu [(c)çu] "be good"
łačí [daˈt͡ʃi] "be loud" (DashieXP)
đáw̌i [ˈd͡ʒabi] "play" (Jobby the Hong)
múšče [ˈmuʃt͡ʃe] "be accidental/mistaken"

[DV82LECM]

Adverb Serialization:

•verb roots can chain serialize.
•they arrange in form of: "action-(grammar)-quality-abstract."
•grammar still "infixes" to the chain behind the action root.
•stress of a word is set on the action root; regardless of stress of any word in the adjective slot; context determines meaning.

●ɪʍ̖ɪv•x̗ɹʍbɪm̖ʊxlx̗ɵʌcx̗rʍ•
Lélu àwey̌léažałàčimàye.
[ˈlelu ˌaweˈgle̯aʒaˌdat͡ʃiˌmaje]
le-lu a=we-y̌lea-ža-łačí-mayé
2p-GEN SUBJ.PLUR=1p-sing-DES-be loud-be big
"We want to sing very loudly for you."

[DV82LECM]

I have been meaning to ask this for a while but wasn't sure if I ever would: has there ever been any attested language that has exhibited a tripartite plural system like I use? I have never seen one.

I still remember the moment the idea solidified. They really derived from the static, coupled nature of the compound pronouns. I thought I would have to scrap the entire pronoun idea itself for forgetting about implied plurality. The idea for them to be enclitics fit. I love that I was also able to render the second set based on number of items possessed to the possessors.

Anyway, I would love feedback.

[Knox Adjacent]

Never seen one either, but great minds think alike?

[DV82LECM]

Never seen one either, but great minds think alike?

I wager. Did you derive the same?

[eldin raigmore]

I have been meaning to ask this for a while but wasn't sure if I ever would: has there ever been any attested language that has exhibited a tripartite plural system like I use? I have never seen one.

Look here https://books.google.com/books/about/N ... -pgAFcE0C .
Something similar to your “tripartite” plural system might be attested by one or more of the languages Corbett discusses.

I’m not certain what you mean by “tripartite plural”. I tried to find where you discussed it, but couldn’t find it quickly enough.
If you mean something similar to what Corbett calls “top-second” number systems, then I’m sure he discusses some natural language(s) that have something similar.

….

Interesting conlang!