(L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

[Nel Fie]

[...]
Doesn't Navajo have a whole thing with word order? It doesn't seem to mark anything, but it seems to organize things.

From what I remember, it uses the order of nouns (or maybe just arguments?) to mark hierarchy in a gender system. Higher ranking nouns have to come before lower ranking ones. It's mostly about animacy, but there's twelve different ranks, and the highest rank being reserved deities and lightning, I think? Someone with a better memory or knowledge might have to correct me.

[LinguoFranco]

Would anyone here know anything about the Papuan language, Imonda?

From what I read it has a topic-comment system, and I'm curious how it compares to languages like Japanese in that area? Can't find too many good resources, though.

[Creyeditor]

Sorry, I don't know anything about this specific language. My guess is that there are many more topic-prominent lamguages in the macroarea.

[VaptuantaDoi]

Here's a grammar of Imonda. I haven't read it but it looks OK.

[GodzillaLouise]

Have I elevated Zareian (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jgS ... VO4E0/edit), a language from my Ultraman/Godzilla Fanfiction world, past being just a relex, or is it still not a true conlang?

[Khemehekis]

What are the differences between sani and had?

Also, by the A in "ask", do you mean /a/, the vowel in the song "Alouette", halfway in between the A in "cat" and the A in "party"?

[GodzillaLouise]

What are the differences between sani and had?

Also, by the A in "ask", do you mean /a/, the vowel in the song "Alouette", halfway in between the A in "cat" and the A in "party"?

There is no difference between sani and had. Thank you very much for pointing that out, as that one completely slipped past me.

As for your other question, the answer is no. The Zareian letter Agra is not pronounced, though it probably would be in some dialects, as /a/. It’s closer to /æ/.

[Khemehekis]

What are the differences between sani and had?

Also, by the A in "ask", do you mean /a/, the vowel in the song "Alouette", halfway in between the A in "cat" and the A in "party"?

There is no difference between sani and had. Thank you very much for pointing that out, as that one completely slipped past me.

You're welcome, but why not keep the two words for "be" and use them for different meanings? "Be" can mean:

1. Describing things.
1a. Inherent characteristics: Kate is beautiful.
1b. States: This soup is hot right now.
2. Indicating that subject and predicate noun are the same: Hi, I'm Jim.
3. Indicating that one thing is a subset of another: Zach is a boy.
4. Indicating location: It is on the table.
5. Equals: Two plus two is four.
6. Marking passive voice: All the hot dogs were eaten.
7. Indicating present progressive or imperfect: Jennifer is smiling. Tom was munching on a pizza.
8. Describing visiting a place: I've never been to India.
9. Indicating role-playing: I be He-man, you be She-ra.

As for your other question, the answer is no. The Zareian letter Agra is not pronounced, though it probably would be in some dialects, as /a/. It’s closer to /æ/.

"Ask" has /a/ for me (and I also know many people in West Contra Costa who say /æks/!). Why not use a word like "apple" or "add" for /æ/?

[GodzillaLouise]

What are the differences between sani and had?

Also, by the A in "ask", do you mean /a/, the vowel in the song "Alouette", halfway in between the A in "cat" and the A in "party"?

There is no difference between sani and had. Thank you very much for pointing that out, as that one completely slipped past me.

You're welcome, but why not keep the two words for "be" and use them for different meanings? "Be" can mean:

1. Describing things.
1a. Inherent characteristics: Kate is beautiful.
1b. States: This soup is hot right now.
2. Indicating that subject and predicate noun are the same: Hi, I'm Jim.
3. Indicating that one thing is a subset of another: Zach is a boy.
4. Indicating location: It is on the table.
5. Equals: Two plus two is four.
6. Marking passive voice: All the hot dogs were eaten.
7. Indicating present progressive or imperfect: Jennifer is smiling. Tom was munching on a pizza.
8. Describing visiting a place: I've never been to India.
9. Indicating role-playing: I be He-man, you be She-ra.

As for your other question, the answer is no. The Zareian letter Agra is not pronounced, though it probably would be in some dialects, as /a/. It’s closer to /æ/.

"Ask" has /a/ for me (and I also know many people in West Contra Costa who say /æks/!). Why not use a word like "apple" or "add" for /æ/?

Both of these are good points. To the first one, I will admit that it’d be a bit… interesting with the table setup I have currently, but it is possible to make the table set up clearer as to what meanings the Zareian words are used to convey, and thus allow for both ‘had’ and ‘sani’ to mean ‘be’. I don’t really know how to do so, but it is possible. To the second one, I can definitely change it out for apple or add.

[GodzillaLouise]

Anyway, my initial question still stands: has Zareian been elevated to the status of a true conlang?

[Khemehekis]

To the first one, I will admit that it’d be a bit… interesting with the table setup I have currently, but it is possible to make the table set up clearer as to what meanings the Zareian words are used to convey, and thus allow for both ‘had’ and ‘sani’ to mean ‘be’. I don’t really know how to do so, but it is possible.

Definitely look into how that works. It's necessary for a good table dictionary! Lots of English words have multiple, semantically unrelated meanings that would almost certainly be different words in unrelated languages. You have the word zyai for "throw" in your verbs list, I see. I'm guessing that's "throw" like throwing a ball. OK, what verb would you use for throwing a party? And what about the verbal ifiom "throw up", meaning to vomit? Do you have a separate verb that means "to vomit", "to throw up", "to puke", "to barf", etc.? Or maybe you can make zyai also mean "throw up", without Zareian having to put a prepositional adverb at the end the way English does. What about "throw away"? What about "throw" like when something catches you offguard and confuses you?

Then there's the verb "to run". As you see in this translation exercise I did, "run" in English can mean a lot of things. In some languages, no two of these sentences would use the same verb!

Having your table cover distinctions in word meaning is also useful for things like kinship terms. Take the words "brother" and "sister", for instance. In English, we just have the words "sister", "brother", and "sibling". In Bengali, they have a separate word for "older brother" and "younger brother", and a separate word for "older sister" and "younger sister".

Then there's Japanese! In Japanese, they make distinctions for gender AND age AND for whether you're talking about your own sibling, or someone else's sibling. My older brother is anii, your/his/her else's older brother is oniisan, my older sister is anee, your/his/her older sister is oneesan, my younger brother is otooto, your/his/her younger brother is otootosan, my younger sister is imooto, and your/his/her younger sister is imootosan. And kyuudai means "sibling(s)" in general.

In some indigenous languages of Latin America, one word would be used for the brother of a brother, and another word would be used for the brother of a sister. A third word would mean the sister of a brother, and a fourth word would mean the sister of a sister!

Then there are some languages (I think Pacific Islander languages) wherein there are two words for siblings: one word means a brother's brother or a sister's sister, and the other word means a sister's brother or a brother's sister.

Or maybe you have only one word with no gender nor age distinctions: sibling!

In Qatama, a conlang created by Masako, the word for "brother" is the same as the word for a male cousin, and the word for "sister" is the same as a word for a female cousin. You might want to try something like that.

In some languages, the word for "boy" is the same as the word for "son", and the word for "girl" is the same as the word for "daughter" (think of the French fille). You could also make "man" and "husband" and/or "woman" and "wife" the same word. (In Russian, the word for "boy/young man/lad" is the same as the word for "boyfriend", and the word for "girl/young woman/lass" is the same as the word for "girlfriend").

As you see, the English verbs "be", "throw", and "run" have many meanings. The words in your conlang will often be like that too. In my conlang, Kankonian, a*utzki (the * is a velar lateral) has the meaning "to fill", as in "Jake filled the bottle". But it can also mean:

*To do/to suffice: I think two more sprays will do.
*To strike: Inspiration strikes!
*To stuff: Starve a fever, stuff a cold.
*In the passive voice, a*utzkiiz, the verb means "to fill up", as in "The Mandarin class is filling up quickly".

Like "throw up" and "throw away", it can be used in verbal idioms:

a*uztki shampa na veziri ad: to be a jerk about (literally "to fill the role of a jerk to")
a*utzki shampa na lotkar: to go along for the ride (literally "to fill the role of the rider")
a*utzki noshyas: to clue [someone] in (lit. "to fill clues")
a*utzki bwolwu na o na: to get a load of (lit. "to fill one's eyes with")
a*utzki na khour: to hit the spot (lit. "to fill with beer")

And then there's:

phutelo ad a*utzki: a mouth to feed (lit. "a stomach to fill")

And a*utzki can be a noun, too: it can mean "round", as in "Jeff used up three rounds of bullets".


BTW, maybe I missed this, but I haven't seen how to do passive voice! Like if you wanted to say "The reporter was arrested by the cop" instead of "The cop arrested the reporter".

[GodzillaLouise]

To the first one, I will admit that it’d be a bit… interesting with the table setup I have currently, but it is possible to make the table set up clearer as to what meanings the Zareian words are used to convey, and thus allow for both ‘had’ and ‘sani’ to mean ‘be’. I don’t really know how to do so, but it is possible.

Definitely look into how that works. It's necessary for a good table dictionary! Lots of English words have multiple, semantically unrelated meanings that would almost certainly be different words in unrelated languages.

Not gonna lie, that’s not what I meant. I see your point, and it does make a lot of sense. I can do that, yes, but figuring out how to make the table look has been difficult, and that’s something that needs to be done first for me. I want to keep the design simple, but I also want to make it so that it’s clear that this additional row on the table is there to help distinguish word meanings.

And yes, it’d have to be an additional row, the problem is just that I want to stop it from getting too narrow in the Google Docs print view: if you have to view on mobile to read everything effectively, that’s a problem.

[GodzillaLouise]

To the first one, I will admit that it’d be a bit… interesting with the table setup I have currently, but it is possible to make the table set up clearer as to what meanings the Zareian words are used to convey, and thus allow for both ‘had’ and ‘sani’ to mean ‘be’. I don’t really know how to do so, but it is possible.

Definitely look into how that works. It's necessary for a good table dictionary! Lots of English words have multiple, semantically unrelated meanings that would almost certainly be different words in unrelated languages.

Not gonna lie, that’s not what I meant. I see your point, and it does make a lot of sense. I can do that, yes, but figuring out how to make the table look has been difficult, and that’s something that needs to be done first for me. I want to keep the design simple, but I also want to make it so that it’s clear that this additional row on the table is there to help distinguish word meanings.

And yes, it’d have to be an additional row, the problem is just that I want to stop it from getting too narrow in the Google Docs print view: if you have to view on mobile to read everything effectively, that’s a problem.

Then as I post that edit… I realize a potential solution by looking at the previous sentences… putting a bulleted list in the additional row + changing the page setup to a wider one. Sorry if this seems redundant, it might be. I’m just letting you know I don’t believe I need help figuring out how to make my table distinguish between word meanings of the same word anymore, so it probably is. Anyway, I’ll get to it. Will ask the question again when I have that all done. Probably will be in a few days, though.

[Khemehekis]

I realize a potential solution by looking at the previous sentences… putting a bulleted list in the additional row + changing the page setup to a wider one.

Glad to've been of help!