Relative Clauses

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ol bofosh
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Relative Clauses

Post by ol bofosh »

Testing two types, restrictive and non-restrictive relative clauses. These come from my grammar dictionary.

Restrictive
Pa resorot tha um gerey gothawet erina davon sana iñ.
/pa ɾe.ˈso.ɾot ʈa um ˈge.ɾej go.ˈʈa.wet e.ˈɾi.ɳa ˈda.voɳ ˈsa.ɳa iŋ/
pa resorot tha um gerey gothawet erina davon sana iñ
DEF restaurant PASS 1PL.INC to.visit night previous at good fairly

The restaurant which we visited last night was pretty good.

Note:
Spoiler:
Passives are VS, and relatives clauses are done by placing the infinitive after the noun. When it came to passive relative clauses I had problems, so I've come up with the passive particle tha. I've also decided that when it comes to copulas like this, to simply place modified and modifier next to each other without doing something like "to be identified as", which is still possible, but more formal.

Non-restrictive
Ol magaret thacer – oñ kazhawk deruj – elerk eri porew modow pa goratod derujox.
/oɭ ma.ˈga.ɾet ˈʈa.ʈʂeɾ | oŋ ˈka.ʐawk ˈde.ruɖʐ | ˈe.ɭeɾk ˈe.ɾi ˈpo.ɾew ˈmo.dow pa go.ˈɾa.tod de.ˈɾu.ɖʐox/
PR Margeret Thatcher - 3SG hate-PST train;PL - refuse-PST ever to.allow to.own DEF road;PL train-of
ol magaret thacer – oñ kazhaw-k deru;j – eler-k eri porew modow pa gorato;d derucox.

Margaret Thatcher, who hated trains, always refused to privatise the railways.

Note:
Spoiler:
This one I've simply inserted it as a small comment: "she hated trains." Nothing sophisticated. Maybe the pronoun for "this person" could also be used in this case.
I've got a whole list of clauses of different types. I'll come back with more on other threads.

And I hope I haven't messed up any details in that! lol

EDIT:
Sentential relative clause
Pa fanisez pa doj jix elerto porew gelakur uxut bofox ol biritanox – pa lo pa filahav ol biritanox gokayk.
[pa fa.ˈɳi.sez pa doɖʐ ɖʐix e.ˈɭeɾ.to ˈpo.ɾew ge.ˈɭa.kuɾ ˈu.xut ˈbo.fox oɭ bi.ɾi.ˈta.nox | pa ɭo pa fi.ˈɭa.hav oɭ bi.ɾi.ˈta.nox go.kajk]
pa fanise;z pa do;j jix eler-t-o porew gelakur uxut bof-ox ol biritan-ox PR Britain-of – pa lo pa filaha;v ol biritan-ox gokay-k.
DEF French;PL DEF German;PL with refuse-PST-PERF to.allow to.sell meat cow-of – CONJ real DEF farmer;PL PR Britain-of be.angry-PST

The French and the Germans have refused to allow the sale of British beef, which has enraged British farmers.

(lit. the French with the Germans have refused to allow to sell meat of cow of Britain - therefore farmers of Britain were angry)
Last edited by ol bofosh on 14 Feb 2013 14:04, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by Chagen »

:con: Pazmat:

Well, here's the first one.

Buntizgjat na Wevalb azjazgusjazj dicacjid.
food-house REL 1PL.ERG last.night-visit-INFIN-PST good-be.3SG.NEU
[buntizdʑæt nɑ wɛvælb æzjæzguɕæʑ dikatɕid]

(Lit. "The restaurant that we visited last night was pretty good")
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by DanH34 »

:eng: I've changed the vocab again, mostly for the usual reasons and to show how verb transitivity and gender affects switch-referents. I've also been indulgent and come up with a Zidhgebzhail name.

1) The man who went to the shop saw the woman.
2) Delieda, who ate the food, went with him.
3) The man saw the woman, which caused the boy to go home.

:con: Zidhgebzhail - Which does not distinguish between restrictive and non-restrictive relative clauses.

1) oz hoz limzjaem gIn [zil] azefa gAin.
oz-Ø h-oz limz-jaem g-I-n [z-il] az-ef-a g-Ai-n
man-ABS.SG.M REL-ANIMATE.SG.M shop-LAT.SG.M PST-go-SIMPLE [3-ERG.SG.M] woman-ACC-SG.F PST-see-SIMPLE
Man who saw woman [he] went to shop.

The personal pronoun in [square brackets] in the final cause could be omitted in all but the most formal registers.

2) Delieda h[oz]ila nentef gEntan zeing gIn.
Delied-Ø-a h-[oz]il-a nent-ef g-Enta-n z-eing g-I-n
flower-ABS-SG.F SWITCH_REFERENT-[ANIMATE.ABS]>ERG-SG.F food-ACC.SG.M PST-eat-SIMPLE 3-COM.SG.M PST-go-SIMPLE
Delieda, who ate food, went with him.

The element of the switch-referent marker in [square brackets] could be omitted in this case since the antecedent(?) is in the absolutive case.

3) ozil azefa gAin, houng zhief igaarrjaem-zae gIn.
oz-il az-ef-a g-Ai-n, h-oung zhief-Ø igaarr-jaem-z-ae g-I-n
man-ERG.SG.M woman-ACC-SG.F PST-see-SIMPLE REL_CAUSAL boy-ABS.SG.M house-LAT.SG.M-3-GEN.SG.M PST-go-SIMPLE
Man saw woman, result[ing in] boy went to his house.
Last edited by DanH34 on 14 Feb 2013 15:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Zidhgebzhail Orthography
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by H.Á. »

Óm roik siudzouvjapól éstdag vøgoni lenumítak.
[ɔʊ̯m ɾɑ̝k ɕù.dzʊ.ɦʉ́ʋ.ja.ʰpʊːlˠ ɛ̀æ̯s.tɐ ʋœ̀.jʊ̃ȵ lɪ̀.nʏ.mɪ́ə.ʰtɐk]
DEM night visit-PROG-AP-PST-PL-1 REL-CAUS restaurant-ABS be_good-INT-SG-3
óm roik siudzó-uv-ja-p-é-l ést-dag vøgoni-0 lenu-mít-a-k

= The restaurant which we visited last night was pretty good.

Ak mútru ápy témtjøk ésteg Margaret Thatcher níkui stalu tixpak næjdinzikpak.
[ɑk mʊ̀u.tɾʏ ɦàʊ.ʰpy tʰɛ̀æ̯m.ʍœk ɛ̀æ̯s.tɪ màɾ.ga.ɾɪt θæ̀.t͡ʃɐ nɪ̀ə.ʰki stæ̀.lʏ tʰè̝x.pɐk næ̀j.ðaɪ̯n.zé̝x.pɐk]
CNJ train-ACC NDEF hate-SG-3 REL-ERG Margaret Thatcher human* railway-ACC DEM=man refuse=always-PST-SG-3
ak mútru-u ápy témtjø-0-k ést-eg Margaret Thatcher níkui stal-u tix=pak næj=zik-p-a-k

= Margaret Thatcher, who hated trains, always refused to privatise the railways.

"Ak" can be used to signalize that a subordinate clause starts after it and is used the more frequently the more irrelevant the information within the subordinate clause.
* no idea how to gloss it: Formality postposition with a meaning close to Mr. or Mrs.
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by mbrsart »

First, I'll try and contrive something similar to what would be found in my Greek textbook. And since we're not dealing with accents in class, I'm pretty much guessing for those.
:ell: (Attic)
ὁ Δικαιόπολις, ὃς ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς οἰκεῖ, αὐτουργός εστιν.
ho Dicaeopol-is hos en tois agr-ois oik-ei autourg-os estin
ART.NOM Dicaeopolis-NOM REL.NOM in ART.DAT.PL field-DAT.PL live-IND.3SG farmer-NOM COP.IND.3SG
= Dicaeopolis, who lives in the country, is a farmer.

Both types of relative clauses in this one. It also kind of demonstrates how the "tenses" behave like aspects.
ὁ Δικαιόπολις δούλον τινα Ξανθίᾱς ὀνόματι ἔσχε ὃν κατάρᾱτον ἐκάλει, ὃς ᾱργός ἐστιν.
ho Dicaeopolis doulon ti-na Xanthiās onomat-i esche hon katarāt-on ekalei hos ārgos estin
ART Dicaeopolis slave-ACC Xanthiās name-DAT INDF-ACC AOR-have-IND.3SG REL.ACC worthless.creature-ACC IMPF-call-3SG REL.NOM lazy PRS.COP.IND.3SG
= Dicaeopolis had a certain slave by the name of Xanthias whom he was calling "worthless creature", who was always lazy.

Now, for :con: Hra'anh, I just created this whole monkey business last week. *dance* But sadly, I don't have the vocab necessary for the translations in the OP, and I don't want to create it right now, so I'll use examples from my grammar notes.
Restrictive
E sandoesh la ier amirate le alure za.
e sandoesh la ier amir-a-te le alure za
DEF sandwich REL 1SG.ABS eat-PST-IMPF REL large COP-PST
= The sandwich that I was eating was large.

Non-rescrictive
Ier siro ioz risa momo pe chtenate.
ier siro ioz ris-a momo pe chten-a-te
1SG.ABS father 1SG.DAT REL 3SM run-PST-IMPF
= I saw my father, who was running.
:con: Hra'anh | :eng: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :grc: [:|] | :heb: [:|] | :epo: [:S] | :deu: [:S] | :ita: [:S] | :bra: [:'(] | :fra: [:'(]
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by ol bofosh »

I've just edited the above post and added a "sentenial relative clause".
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by mbrsart »

I just found an interesting example from an unidentified Yanomaman language:

wãro-n shama shyra-wei ware-ma
man-ERG tapir kill-REL eat-COMPL
'the man who killed the tapir ate it'

I've never seen a relative clause marked verbally like that. But it's a good thing to know, so that I can steal borrow it one of these days. (These languages also have some pretty sick noun incorporation, which is always fun.)
:con: Hra'anh | :eng: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :grc: [:|] | :heb: [:|] | :epo: [:S] | :deu: [:S] | :ita: [:S] | :bra: [:'(] | :fra: [:'(]
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by Micamo »

mbrsart wrote:I just found an interesting example from an unidentified Yanomaman language:

wãro-n shama shyra-wei ware-ma
man-ERG tapir kill-REL eat-COMPL
'the man who killed the tapir ate it'

I've never seen a relative clause marked verbally like that. But it's a good thing to know, so that I can steal borrow it one of these days. (These languages also have some pretty sick noun incorporation, which is always fun.)
Yes, it's called a Relative Mood. A few languages have multiple relative moods depending on which argument is being relativized.
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by Click »

Micamo wrote:
mbrsart wrote:I just found an interesting example from an unidentified Yanomaman language:

wãro-n shama shyra-wei ware-ma
man-ERG tapir kill-REL eat-COMPL
'the man who killed the tapir ate it'

I've never seen a relative clause marked verbally like that. But it's a good thing to know, so that I can steal borrow it one of these days. (These languages also have some pretty sick noun incorporation, which is always fun.)
Yes, it's called a Relative Mood. A few languages have multiple relative moods depending on which argument is being relativized.
Interesting! [:D]
I'm so gonna steal this for Kokóro...

Does this abbreviation COMPL mean that an action has been completed?
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by mbrsart »

I assume so. It doesn't really make sense as "complement". Why they didn't just say TEL is beyond me.
:con: Hra'anh | :eng: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :grc: [:|] | :heb: [:|] | :epo: [:S] | :deu: [:S] | :ita: [:S] | :bra: [:'(] | :fra: [:'(]
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by Click »

mbrsart wrote:I assume so. It doesn't really make sense as "complement". Why they didn't just say TEL is beyond me.
I've googled a little and COMPL is apparently the abbreviation for the completive aspect.
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by Lao Kou »

Image Géarthnuns

Chau íumévers lé, chauraut trízh lé chau hereçkemíarsauv gnaikrön sho, zçalíkfoshker ézçeu nöi.
[tʃɔ 'jumeˌvɛɾs 'le, ˌtʃɔɾɔt 'tɾiʒ le tʃɔ ˌhɛɾɛɕkɛ'mjaɾsɔv 'gnajkɾøn ʃo, ˌʑali'kfoʃkɛɾ e'ʑɛ.u 'nøj]
DEF restaurant-NOM AUX.PAST, REL-ACC 1DUAL-NOM AUX.PAST DEF last.night-LOC patronize PTCL, good-NOM suitable-AdADJ be
The restaurant which we visited last night was pretty good.

Thachör Margarets höi chük karhéviksüch löfélöt lé chau önagersaut bab welébef íömé ngrhoptal.
['θatʃøɾ 'maɾgaɾɛts 'høj tʃyk ˌkaXe'vɪksytʃ lø'feløt 'le tʃɔ ˌøna'gɛɾsɔt bab ˌʋɛle'bɛf jø'me ŋ'Xoptal]
Thatcher Margaret-NOM PTCL DEF.PL train-ACC.PL hate.PAST.PTPL-NOM AUX.PAST DEF railway-ACC PTCL.CAUSPASS own.privately always refused
Margaret Thatcher, who hated trains, always refused to privatise the railways.

Chek fransébauthsep zhö chauk doichörsaup lé höi cha zheteraltensat britishlatöinat che shathset ba akraikh ngrhoptal, kfö gnézau che hereçkeths lön chauk kengaungevíersauch britishlatöirauch ksa tha'u heshtegöl.
[tʃɛk ˌfɾɑ̃se'bɔθɛp ʒø tʃɔk dojtʃ'øɾsɔp 'le høj tʃa ˌʒɛtɛɾal'tɛ̃sat ˌbɾɪtɪʃla'tøjnat tʃɛ ˌʃaθsɛt ba a'kɾajx ŋ'Xoptal, kfø gne'za.u tʃɛ 'hɛɾɛɕkɛθs 'løn tʃɔk ˌkɛŋɔŋɛ'vjɛrsɔtʃ ˌbɾɪtɪʃla'tøjrɔtʃ ksa 'θa.u ˌhɛʃtɛ'gøl]
DEF.PL French.person-NOM.PL and DEF.PL German.person-NOM.PL AUX.PAST PTCL DEF beef-ACC British-ACC DEF sale-ACC PTCL allow refuse, and as.a.result-ADV DEF that-NOM AUX.PRESPRF.CAUS DEF.PL farmer-ACC.PL British-ACC.PL "unfortunately" very be.angry-CONCL
The French and the Germans have refused to allow the sale of British beef, which has enraged British farmers.
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by Lao Kou »

Image Japoné語

Le 料理店 oué, qu'au on ga 訪réta 昨晚, il ga été plutôt 良i.
Le rieauritain oué, qu'au on ga otausouréta saqueban, il ga été plutôt yaui.
[lœ̈ ˈʁjoʊ̯ʁitẽɪ̯̃ we | ko õʊ̃ gɔ ɔˈtozʊʁetɔ sakœ̈bã | i gɔ ete plʏˈto joj]
DEF.m restaurant.m TOP, REL ACC 1SG NOM visit-PAST last.night, 3SG.m NOM be-PAST rather good.m
The restaurant which we visited last night was pretty good.

Margaret Thatcher oué, qui ga 嫌ttéta les 列車 au, à ga 拒nda toujours de 民営化èrë les 鉄道/le 国鉄.
Margaret Thatcher oué, qui ga quirattéta les réccha au, à ga cobanda toujours de mineillecaèrë les tètsedeau/le coquetètsë.
[ˈmargərət ˈθætʃɚ we | ki gɔ kɪˈʁat.tetɔ le ˈʁeʃ.ʃɔ o | a: gɔ kɔˈbãdɔ tuˈʒʊu̯ʁd mɪˈnejkaˈæɛ̯ʁœ̈ le ˌtetsœ̈ˈdoʊ̯ / lœ̈ ˌkɔkœ̈ˈtetsœ̈]
Margaret Thatcher TOP, REL NOM hate-PROGPAST DEF.PL train ACC, 3SG.f NOM refuse-PAST always of privatise DEF.PL railway/DEF.m national.rail
Margaret Thatcher, who hated trains, always refused to privatise the railways.

Les Francé人 et les Allemand人 oué, ils ga 拒nda d'許cë la 販売 au de 牛肉 britannique, ce qui ga 憤激sacétèrë le 農民 britannique.
Les Francédjine et les Allemandjine oué, ils ga cobanda d'youroucë la hambaille au de gioûniquë britannique, ce qui ga funguéquisacétèrë le neaumine britannique.
[le fʁãˈsedʒɪi̯n e le z‿alˈmãdʒɪi̯n we | i gɔ kɔˈbãdɔ ˈd‿jʊu̯ʁʊsœ̈ la ˈãbaj od ˈgjʊu̯nɪkœ̈ bʁɪtaˈnɪk | ski gɔ ˈfʌ̃ɹgekɪsaseˈtæɛ̯ʁœ̈l ˈnoʊ̯mɪi̯n bʁɪtaˈnɪk]
DEF.PL French.person and DEF.PL German.person TOP, 3PL NOM refuse-PAST of allow DEF sale ACC of beef.m British.m, REL NOM be.furious-CAUSPROGPRES DEF.m farmers.m British.m
The French and the Germans have refused to allow the sale of British beef, which has enraged British farmers.
Last edited by Lao Kou on 11 Jun 2016 10:30, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by GrandPiano »

Lao Kou wrote:料理店
rieauritain
[ʁjoʊ̯ʁiẽɪ̯̃]
Is the t in "rieauritain" supposed to be silent?
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by Lao Kou »

Er, no. Thanks.
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Re: Relative Clauses

Post by Iyionaku »

U'mumàro vit ralitest cu paru siy parcas yiyafaibut.
[ʊmuˈmɐːro vɪt raˈliːtɛst kʊ ˈparu sa̯iː ˈpaɾkɐs çiʃaɸaɪ̯bʊt]
DEF_INAN-restaurant REL visit-1PLEX at night before sun PST-very-good-be.3SG.INAN
The restaurant which we visited last night was pretty good.

Magaret Thatcher táviter yiaraset bîyturan yicidiysmaytevanreyet u'speldîytur.
[ˈmaxarɛt ˈtɛtʃɛɾ ˈtavɪtɛr ʃi.ɐraːsɛt ˈbiçtʊrɐn ʃiˌkida̯iːsmaʃˌtɛvɐnˈrɛʃɛt ʊˈspɛlˈdiçtur]
Margaret Thatcher, she-who PST-hate.3SG train-PL PST-always-refuse-privatise DEF_INAN-railway
Margaret Thatcher, who hated trains, always refused to privatise the railways.

A'francian èn a'germian yimaygeyʻi pi pordesbritán diyialovanut, vat andegasbocet a'zémedorbritánan.
[aˈfraŋkjan ɛn aˈxɛrmjan ˌʃimaʃˈgɛʃʔi pi ˈpɔrdɛsbriˌtan ˌdiçiaˈlɔvanʊt, vat anˌdɛxasˈbɔkɛt aˈɟɛmɛdɔɾbriˈtanɐn]
DEF_ANIM-french.PL and DEF_AMIN-german.PL PST-refuse-allow-3PL that pork-british COND-PST-sell-COND.PAS.3SG.INAN, DEM furious-become-3SG DEF_ANIM-farmer-british-PL
The French and the Germans have refused to allow to sell british beef, that caused British farmers to be angry.
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