Sun Speech (Isidriè), and its script - Scratchpad

[Redovas]

SUN SPEECH • ISIDRIÈ
MOTHER TONGUE OF THE SUN KINGDOM | VIAMMÈ AL IVETATUE B’ISIDRIA

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Something like "The two sentries watch the aurous sun embrace the stars." More on the script below.

So I'm really bad at sticking to one thing for long periods of time, so putting Halbesh aside for a bit, here's some work I've done on a new language-script combo as part of a visual story telling project my friends and I have been working on. Nothing really linguistically revolutionary, since the script is the star of the show here.

So some background: Isidriè is meant to accompany the Sun Kingdom (Vetatue B’isidria), which is an amalgamation of Ancient Egypt and the Venetian Empire with a dash of Mesopotamia and Mesoamerica (hence the primary influences of this language being Italian and Middle Egyptian). Everything is ostentatious and unnecessarily complicated, so I tried to make sure the romanization and the script reflected that as well. Because why the hell not.

PHONOLOGY

m n ɲ • ⟨ m n gn 〉
p t c k q • ⟨ p t c(i) k q 〉
b d ɟ g • ⟨ b d j g 〉
ts dz • ⟨ ss zz 〉
f s ɕ (k)x h (q)χ • ⟨ f s sc(i) kh qh 〉
v z ʑ (g)ɣ • ⟨ v z sg(i) gh 〉
r̥ r l j w • ⟨ rh r l ì•y ù•w 〉
a ɛ e i u o ɔ a • ⟨ a è e i u o ò â 〉

// Some Notes on Romanization:

• • As you may have noticed, I purposefully went out of my way to complicate the situation and "Italianize" the romanizations. If I'm gonna make this ridiculous, I'm gonna go all out.
  • /c ɕ ʑ/ syllables are spelled with an i before vowels other than ⟨i e è〉 (/ca/ cia, /ʑo/ sgio, etc.). These contrast with syllables with semivowels like /cja/ cìa, /ʑjo/ sgìo, and instances of hiatus like /ci(j)a/ ciya, /ʑi(j)o/ sgiyo.
  • As similar idea goes for distinguishing /wV/ and /u.V/: /kwa/ kua, /ku(w)a/ kuwa
  • Special rules are used with ⟨i u〉 to avoid ambiguity: /wu/ wu, /wi/ ùi, /ju/ ìu, /yi/ yi, /iw/ iù, /uj/ uì, /i(j)/u/ iyu, /u(w)i/ uwi
  • â is identical to a, but just indicates the historical epenthetic vowel /ʌ/. The circumflex is usually just reserved for transliterations.

// Phonotactics & Writing System

The standard syllable is (C/M)(Y)V(Y)(L)(N). M denotes the consonant clusters /tr̥ dr dl/ and /ts dz/, geminate forms that have dropped the preceding vowel. Y represents the semivowels /j w/, L the liquids /r̥ r l/, and N the nasals /m n ɲ/. Stress almost always falls on the penultimate mora, so the last syllable is stressed if it ends with a nasal or a liquid. In words longer than three syllables, a secondary stress is present in the first syllable. The syllabary, Sun Script (Isidriaghò), reflects this structure well, shown here in its hieratic and linear forms:

Spoiler:

The hieratic form, so named for being highly stylized and unsuited for daily writing. The symbols are made to fit into and beside one another snugly, much like how hieroglyphs did. The red symbols in the corner denote the general shape, which is more of a guide for me when I write it. Missing from this one are the null vowel mark (used for contractions) and the geminate mark (four dots arranged like a diamond).


The standard form of the linear script. It borrows that running line from South Asian scripts and is markedly much easier to write than the hieratic style. Here the geminate mark takes a different form, as the dots would have resulted in a diacritic overload.

An animated breakdown of the top example can be found here, and an album of the process here. Some other examples of Sun Script in action can be seen below:

Spoiler:

'Miyamoto', or miìamoto, written in various ways


Rhamalmeziya [ˌr̥amalmeˈzi(j)a], 'the writers'


Miètta [ˈmjɛtta], 'capital city'


And lastly, 'Reddit', or reditâ

// Allophony

The most prevalent instances of allophony involve assimilation, as with nasals in articles and certain verb inflections. These are usually noted in transcription, but rarely in the native script (vimbandoleza, ‘the sentry’, is still written as <vinbandoleza>)

• • The stops /c ɟ/ have shifted to the affricates [tɕ] and [dʑ] before high vowels, but many have extended that to every instance of the two phonemes, e.g. ciallè /cal.lɛ/ [ˈtɕalːɛ̆], ‘to sing’.
  • The affricates /kx qχ gɣ/, remnants of older /kʰ qʰ gʱ/, pronounced intervocalically and in unstressed syllables as [x χ ɣ], e.g. khuerrhèn /kx(w)er.r̥ɛn/ [xwer̥ːɛn], ‘to distinguish, discern’; qhuèn /qχwɛn/ [qχwɛn], ‘purpose, intention’. Certain dialects have dropped the initial consonant entirely.
  • The phonemes /kx h q qχ/ become [cç ç k kx] before /j i e/, and /s z ts dz/ become [ɕ ʑ tɕ dʑ] before /j/ and unstressed /i e/, e.g. hièra /hyɛr.a/ [ˈçjɛ.ră]. /n/ is realized as [ɲ] before unstressed instances of /j i e/.
  • In words ending with a liquid-nasal cluster, the nasal is dropped unless followed by a vowel, e.g. qarn [qar], ‘market’; qarneza [qar.ˈne.ză], 'solicitor, peddler'
  • Vowels at the end of statements are usually very short and may be followed by a subtle glottal stop, as with ò /ɔ/ [ɔ̆], ‘eye’. In words like qhuu /qχuu/ [qχu], ‘fox’, with a double vowel, the end is not cut short and may even be pronounced as a long [qχuː].
  • Vowels in hiatus are unstable and are made acceptable by means of either semivowelization (/a.ɟa.rɛ.ˈo ra/ [adʑaˈrjora] ajaryo-ra, ‘I love’ or glide-insertion (/me.ˈi.Q.bɔ/ [meˈjibːɔ] meyibbò, ‘pretty-boy’).
  • Medial /j w/ has a tendency to drop in unstressed vowels, while final /j w/ monophthongizes with its preceding vowel in unstressed positions: scìozainian /ɕjo.zaj.njan/ [ɕozɛˈnjan], 'deer (pl)'.

// Gemination
Geminates in Isidriè come as either true or dotted geminates. True geminates are formed with nasals and liquids, and occur when the consonant coda of the preceding syllable is the similar to the first consonant of the next. The sound produced is a normal geminate of the nasal or liquid. Dotted geminates, or strong geminates, are formed with nasals, liquids, and all stops, and are so named due to the four-dot marking used in the hieratic style that denotes them. Dotted stops are pronounced as a typical geminate, while dotted nasals and liquids are instead transformed into a consonant cluster. The differences are detailed below:



Gemination also occurs when cluster codas are followed by nasals or liquids. When the following syllable begins with a nasal, the liquid is dropped from the cluster and the unstressed nasal assimilates to the stressed one to form a geminate: /alm.ˈna/ would be [anˈna] and /ˈalm.na/ [ˈamma]. If both are unstressed, the second assimilates to the first: /a.ralm.na.ˈra.la/ would be [arammaˈrala]. A similar rule goes for syllables beginning with liquid, in that the nasal is dropped and the stressed liquid takes precedence. The only exception deals with clusters ending in /n/, which form only [lː] geminates: /ba.ln.ˈri.zyɔ/ becomes balliziò [balˈliʑjɔ].

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That's it for now. I'll talk about articles and maybe some nouns in the next post, but let me know what you thought of this stuff and if there's anything else you want to see specifically. Until next time—

[cntrational]

Holy shit that script. The rest ain't bad, either!

[Micamo]

I can haz a gloss of that first sentence?

Also, I really love your scripts. Can I chain you up in my basement and make you design scripts like that for my langs? :3

[thaen]

I second micamo and cntrational. This is fantastic! The script is beautiful and it apparently works. The grammar looks good, but I'll have to reread it. In short, this is just fantastic!

[Lambuzhao]

Cannot wait to see grammar.

The script combines some of the most aesthetically-pleasing concepts/strokes from Phagspa, Mongolian, Tocharian, Aramaic, and maybe even Hieratic Egyptian (especially the swashful calligraphic form in the intro).
VG+.

Also, what's the significance of the 8-pointed star?

[Ceresz]

This is starting to sound like an echo chamber but that's one hell of a script you've got there. You obviously put a lot of work into the design process. The drawings in your album were nice as well - hopefully we'll see more of those if you decide to share something on the culture and whatnot. Also, I like your lack of a 1:1 correspondence in the romanization. It gives the orthography some historical depth, which I like.

Looking forward to more.

[Incorruptus]

Fine conlangs are like rare vintage wine that one collects in ones head. This's in my private reserve. Your word structure is beautiful...and that script. Exquisite symmetry.

Anyway, keep it up!!

[zyma]

Holy shit that script.

My thoughts exactly.

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To continue jumping on the "echo chamber" train, I love the romanization, phonology, and pretty much everything about what you've posted. The sources of your inspiration are clear, but the product of that inspiration is totally unique.

Nothing really linguistically revolutionary, since the script is the star of the show here.

Not to say that the script isn't divine, but I wouldn't downplay the linguistic elements either. I might not call it revolutionary, but what you've shown is incredibly naturalistic and in-depth.

[DesEsseintes]

I think this is the first conscript I've come across that I've really liked! It's fantastic!

[Redovas]

Thanks for the lovely comments, you guys. I used up a good few pens figuring out the script so I'm glad it's being received so nicely.

I can haz a gloss of that first sentence?

Comin' right up:

Onumuasia khabandòlezar uèmmio sè bèlzairh paldazziò iòriòliauèsciyo
onum-ua-sia kha-bandòl-ezar uèmmio sè bèl-zairh paldazz-iò iòr-iòliau-èsciyo
watch-3.M-DU DEF.M.DU-protection-AGENT.M.DU embrace of DEF.C.SG-sun golden-C.SG DEF.C.PL-lantern-C.PL
"The two sentries watch the aurous sun embrace the stars."

Pretty rusty with my glossing but hopefully that makes enough sense. C here refers to what I call the "celestial" noun class, used mainly for things related to do with the sky and, by extension, things of high status (seemed sensible enough for a heliotheistic society). And of course the other two are just masculine and feminine.

Can I chain you up in my basement and make you design scripts like that for my langs? :3

You better have a swanky basement. But in all seriousness, if you ever need script help or anything, hit me up.

The script combines some of the most aesthetically-pleasing concepts/strokes from Phagspa, Mongolian, Tocharian, Aramaic, and maybe even Hieratic Egyptian (especially the swashful calligraphic form in the intro).

You pretty much hit the nail on the head there with the influences. Not to mention Chinese, Tibetan, and Siddham... all beautiful scripts.

Also, what's the significance of the 8-pointed star?

I setted on the 8-pointed star as the general Sun symbol I'd use for this kingdom. I'd imagine the city would be full of octagram variations and geometric patterns akin to designs you'd see in Arabic architecture. My design for the king's headdress even has the star:


And yeah, he's like 12.

The drawings in your album were nice as well - hopefully we'll see more of those if you decide to share something on the culture and whatnot.

Until we flesh out more of the culture and its people, have a couple concepts I've already done. Not much so far but it hints at the general direction we're going for.

[Esmelthien]

I recognise that art style, though I'm not sure where from... In any case, the script, as others've said before, is absolutely stunning. Could we maybe, possibly, get some samples of the non-ornamental linear script?

[Thrice Xandvii]

You can really tell you are a student of both art and natural languages. You weave the two together very well! I love both of your scripts that I've seen. And being a lover of script-making myself, am exceedingly jealous.

[Micamo]

Onumuasia khabandòlezar uèmmio sè bèlzairh paldazziò iòriòliauèsciyo
onum-ua-sia kha-bandòl-ezar uèmmio sè bèl-zairh paldazz-iò iòr-iòliau-èsciyo
watch-3.M-DU DEF.M.DU-protection-AGENT.M.DU embrace of DEF.C.SG-sun golden-C.SG DEF.C.PL-lantern-C.PL
"The two sentries watch the aurous sun embrace the stars."

A few things.

- It's interesting that the definiteness markers kha-, bèl-, iòr-, etc. are prefixes rather than proclitics. Any reason for this design decision?

- You have a separate word for "sun", but "star" is "lantern" with celestial-declension affixes?

- It's strange that an agentive derivational suffix would vary in number: Is this actually a case of a separate number suffix fusing with the derivational suffix, or are they suppletive?

- -èsciyo is a rather comically long plural suffix, even if it is for a rare declension; I'd shorten it to -èsci or something.

- I'm not sure how that second part (uèmmio sè bèlzairh paldazziò iòriòliauèsciyo) is structured: Is uèmmio a noun, or a verb? Both possibilities raise questions: If it's a noun, why is it lacking the ordinary definiteness/gender/number circumfixes? If it's a verb, then why is it lacking subject agreement inflection? Furthermore if it's a verb then why is it apparently part of a genitive structure? And if it's a noun, then the only way I can interpret its structure is if it's something analogous to "embrace of the sun and stars", with a null conjunction.

C here refers to what I call the "celestial" noun class, used mainly for things related to do with the sky and, by extension, things of high status (seemed sensible enough for a heliotheistic society). And of course the other two are just masculine and feminine.

No neuter?

[Thrice Xandvii]

No neuter?

I'm curious about this question. Is it odd to not have a neuter in a language with masc/fem and then a different third gender?

Also, as a possible explanation, assuming it is weird, perhaps it merged with the Celestial one? Or patterned after masculine and merged with that class.

[cntrational]

- You have a separate word for "sun", but "star" is "lantern" with celestial-declension affixes?

Seems plausible to me, considering that they worship the sun and probably do not think of stars as distant suns.

[Redovas]

I'll be perfectly honest with ya, Micamo, I put very little thought into the structure of that sentence since I just needed something to write. Just a warning. But let's see how much of it I can try and justify...

It's interesting that the definiteness markers kha-, bèl-, iòr-, etc. are prefixes rather than proclitics. Any reason for this design decision?

Nouns are almost always accompanied by these markers and they affect the stress pattern of the word (and, by extension, sound changes): bua [bwa] 'journey'; vimbua /vin.bwa/ [ˈvim.ba], 'the journey'. Then again, the script doesn't divide words, so in the end it doesn't even really matter.

You have a separate word for "sun", but "star" is "lantern" with celestial-declension affixes?

Ah, that's just a metaphor situation. Sun people are real big on metaphors, especially with celestial bodies (pretty much every noun has "sophisticated" metaphorical alternatives that writers or nobles would use). In this instance you could translate iòriòliauèsciyo as 'the great lanterns', with the celestial affixes acting quite like augmentative ones. Of course actual augmentative affixes do exist, as with celestial Belsohèon /bel.so.ˈhɛ.on/ 'The Mistress', a morning star that lingers with both the Sun and the Moon, derived from the feminine son, a literal 'mistress; side chick'.

It's strange that an agentive derivational suffix would vary in number: Is this actually a case of a separate number suffix fusing with the derivational suffix, or are they suppletive?

Masculine nouns ending in -a (the most frequent ending) have typical dual and plural forms with -ar and -ia. So bandòleza, with its -eza agentive suffix, would follow that as well. I should've put something like bandòl-ez-ar instead, whoops.

-èsciyo is a rather comically long plural suffix, even if it is for a rare declension; I'd shorten it to -èsci or something.

Oh definitely, -èsciyo is one of those antiquated mouthfuls that people would only encounter in poetry and old texts. Adding celestial suffixes to non-celestial nouns as a way of augmentation is no longer as productive as using simpler augmentative infixes like -(â)hè-. "The great lanterns" would be something more like

• rhaiòliahèuièn /r̥a.jɔ.lja.hɛw.jɛn/ [r̥a.jɔ.la.ˈhe.jɛn]
  iòliauè → iòlia-hè-uè → iòliahèu-ièn → rha-iòliahèuièn
  lantern → lantern.AUG → lantern.AUG-PL → DEF.M.PL-lantern.AUG-PL (how do you mark infixes with a gloss???)

but the older way only stuck around due to overuse by pretentious people (probably).

I'm not sure how that second part (uèmmio sè bèlzairh paldazziò iòriòliauèsciyo) is structured: Is uèmmio a noun, or a verb? Both possibilities raise questions: If it's a noun, why is it lacking the ordinary definiteness/gender/number circumfixes? If it's a verb, then why is it lacking subject agreement inflection? Furthermore if it's a verb then why is it apparently part of a genitive structure? And if it's a noun, then the only way I can interpret its structure is if it's something analogous to "embrace of the sun and stars", with a null conjunction.

Here's where I'm not totally sure what I was doing. Bear with me; this might not make any sense. The whole second part was basically intended as a noun phrase. Uèmmio is both an 'embrace' and the infinitive form of the verb 'to embrace'. So you might translate it as 'embracing'. I apparently decided that an infinitive in this scenario would be left unmarked, despite acting as a noun. The language is VSO, so since 'the sun' came before 'the stars' then the sun was doing the embracing. To the stars. Erm. So then sè was conceived as a thingie that linked the infinitive verb (which is a noun) to the subject in a manner similar to a possessive construction. And in my possessives, neither the possessor nor the possessed change in marking to agree with the other. So altogether it'd be "the sun's embracing of the stars," analogous to "my eating of the cake" or something... I'm sorry you had to read that. I haven't had enough experience with syntax yet.

No neuter?

Nahhh. I wasn't really feelin' a neuter for this one. Or I could say there was one, but it just died out and scattered into the masculines. I wasn't even intending on developing the language this far at first, so I didn't get a chance to plan out any protolangs. Then again the Sun people ride fire-breathing lions into battle so I'm not valuing realism here as highly as I would for other projects.

[Click]

This is beautiful.

The script looks so exquisite and complex despite in fact being a straightforward syllabary, and the art style is familiar as well, but I’m not sure where I’ve encountered it earlier.

"The great lanterns" would be something more like

• rhaiòliahèuièn /r̥a.jɔ.lja.hɛw.jɛn/ [r̥a.jɔ.la.ˈhe.jɛn]
  iòliauè → iòlia-hè-uè → iòliahèu-ièn → rha-iòliahèuièn
  lantern → lantern.AUG → lantern.AUG-PL → DEF.M.PL-lantern.AUG-PL (how do you mark infixes with a gloss???)

Infixes are marked inside these brackets: <>.

Rule 9: Infixes

Infixes are enclosed by angle brackets, and so is the object-language counterpart in the gloss.

(27) Tagalog

• b<um>ili (stem: bili)
  <ACTFOC>buy
  'buy'

(28) Latin

• reli<n>qu-ere (stem: reliqu-)
  leave<PRS>-INF
  'to leave'

Infixes are generally easily identifiable as left-peripheral (as in 27) or as rightperipheral (as in 28), and this determines the position of the gloss corresponding to the infix with respect to the gloss of the stem. If the infix is not clearly peripheral, some other basis for linearizing the gloss has to be found.

(source)

So, rhaiòliahèuièn would be glossed as follows:

• rhaiòliahèuièn
  rha-iòlia<hè>uè-ien
  DEF.M.PL-lantern<AUG>-PL

[Redovas]

Click, thanks so much. I... I realize now that the site was the first result when you google "gloss infix", so my lazy ass is very grateful you saved me the trouble. I should've bookmarked it when I first visited it months ago.

As for the art style, I'm not totally sure. My only real "art presence" is on tumblr, and it's not even to a level that I'd boast about.

[DesEsseintes]

As for the art style, I'm not totally sure. My only real "art presence" is on tumblr, and it's not even to a level that I'd boast about.

I checked out your tumblr pages and there's a lot of nice stuff on there. Your sketches are awesome! (I advise other readers to click on the links in Redovas' signature)

I also want to echo some previous posters and reiterate the demand for a sample text in linear script.

[Micamo]

Here's where I'm not totally sure what I was doing. Bear with me; this might not make any sense. The whole second part was basically intended as a noun phrase. Uèmmio is both an 'embrace' and the infinitive form of the verb 'to embrace'. So you might translate it as 'embracing'. I apparently decided that an infinitive in this scenario would be left unmarked, despite acting as a noun. The language is VSO, so since 'the sun' came before 'the stars' then the sun was doing the embracing. To the stars. Erm. So then sè was conceived as a thingie that linked the infinitive verb (which is a noun) to the subject in a manner similar to a possessive construction. And in my possessives, neither the possessor nor the possessed change in marking to agree with the other. So altogether it'd be "the sun's embracing of the stars," analogous to "my eating of the cake" or something... I'm sorry you had to read that. I haven't had enough experience with syntax yet.

It's okay! Subordination is a complex topic.

Anyway it sounds like the subordinate clause here is what we call an action nominal, which is basically a nominalized verb that's still verby enough that it can take arguments (as opposed to deverbal nouns, which can't). English has them in its gerunds, but this is actually an area where English is kinda weird since it allows multiple strategies. There are four basic ways a language can handle action nominals:

The sentential strategy, where both subject and object are treated as they would be in a normal clause. Mary stabbing John was hilarious.

The possessive-accusative strategy, where the subject is treated as a possessor and the accusative is treated normally. Mary's stabbing John was hilarious.

The double-possessive strategy, where the subject and object are treated as possessors simultaneously. Mary's stabbing of John was hilarious.

Then there's the ergative-possessive strategy, where only the object is treated as a possessor. This is something English can't do, so I'll give an example from my conlang Haneko instead:

mahi kananiwa hiriko manowamari ika pahio kohanako
mahi kana-ni=wa hiri=ko mano-wama-ri ika-0 pahio koha-na=ko
sun yellow-ADN.F=ERG star=PL arm-cover-ACT.NMLZ.F.SG see-M.SG soldier two-ADN.M=PL
The two sentries watched the golden sun embrace the stars.

It sounds to me like you're going for either a possessive-accusative or a double-possessive style; Both are fine, but you should decide which one your lang uses (and "either" is a possible choice).