Quick Diachronics Challenge

[Visions1]

Spoiler:

aɬ.tə˥l

I would have liked to have written the logic for this one out, but I couldn't be bothered to explain the spidey senses.

[thethief3]

aɬ.ta:

[Arayaz]

Spoiler:

aɬ.tə˥l

I would have liked to have written the logic for this one out, but I couldn't be bothered to explain the spidey senses.

Visions:

Spoiler:

You are very close, with three of your segments being correct and one rather close. In fact, if one removes the /l/ at the end, this is an intermediate form that occurs.

aɬ.ta:

thethief:

Spoiler:

Close ─ two out of four segments are correct, and one is rather close. You also have the overall shape of the word (VCCV) essentially correct, and while one of those segments is indeed lengthened, it is not the final vowel.

[Visions1]

Spoiler:

[al.tʉː]
[hæ.t͡ɬæ˥]
[ad͡ɮ]
[ataɬ]
[es.ttaː]
[has.stɐ˥]

"...ancestrally was basically a dialect continuum..." - Arayaz, 2024
I was having a very strong suspicion. Now it's confirmed. This will make 1-line charts harder.

[al.tʉː] [hæ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ] [es.ttaː] [has.stɐ˥]

So firstly, /h/ seems late. We can just chop it off.
[al.tʉː] [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ] [es.ttaː] [*as.stɐ˥]
[*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] and [*as.stɐ˥] live next to eachother.

Let's pay attention to some salient groupings:
Vowel1: [al.tʉː] [*as.stɐ˥] [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ] [es.ttaː]
Clearly used to be an /a/. But how do we group the children?
The only ones without /a/ are [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] and [es.ttaː]. We can assume the are next to eachother.


Consonant1: [al.tʉː] [es.ttaː] [*as.stɐ˥] [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ]
Considering [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] and [*as.stɐ˥] have an /h/ and tone, it makes sense that [es.ttaː] and [*as.stɐ˥] are the only two with an /s/. So we have a rough map forming.
[es.ttaː - *as.stɐ˥ - *æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [al.tʉː] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ]
[al.tʉː] has /l/, and all the others have /t/ or a dental affricate involving a kind of /ɬ/. This will be addressed later, but that's why I think /ɬ/ was C1.
[ataɬ] has /t/, [ad͡ɮ] and [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] a /tɬ/ affricate. Another point on the map.

Consonant2: If there is one at all, it's a plosive and dental. Clearly universal (as C1 or C2). Question is what exactly.

Vowel2: The fun stuff. It can't be a straight /a/; but there's a tendency to it. V2 may have tone, or length, but not both.
[ad͡ɮ] and [ataɬ] are weird. One has only one syllable. The other has a final consonant, and no obvious C2.
[*as.stɐ˥] and [al.tʉː] share a weird roundish vowel. Hmmm.
[*as.stɐ˥] and [ad͡ɮ] are reduced by V2. Hmmmm.

Let's wipe some grime away. Get rid of the /e/s in [es.ttaː - *as.stɐ˥ - *æ.t͡ɬæ˥].
[as.ttaː - *as.stɐ˥ - *a.t͡ɬa˥]. Obviously, the first two were [as.ttaː - *as.sta˥]. But note the above on [al.tʉː]. Also note the gemination.

Let's toss in some facts:
Must be VCCV overall, either V1 C1 or C2 is long, last vowel is not /a/. Possibly no final /l/.

Going of my prev. guess, the answer looks almost like aɬ.tə˥l. This makes sense.
I feel one question remains: what is long?

atɬ.tə˥l

[Arayaz]

I have noticed several errors, but they don't make it any harder to reconstruct; all that changes is that some of the forms aren't accurate to the actual languages. But it's fine.

Visions:

Spoiler:

So firstly, /h/ seems late. We can just chop it off.
[al.tʉː] [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ] [es.ttaː] [*as.stɐ˥]
[*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] and [*as.stɐ˥] live next to eachother.

Yep yep!

Let's pay attention to some salient groupings:
Vowel1: [al.tʉː] [*as.stɐ˥] [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ] [es.ttaː]
Clearly used to be an /a/. But how do we group the children?
The only ones without /a/ are [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] and [es.ttaː]. We can assume the are next to eachother.

*checks map* not quite next to each other, I'm afraid, but not far either.

Consonant1: [al.tʉː] [es.ttaː] [*as.stɐ˥] [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ]
Considering [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] and [*as.stɐ˥] have an /h/ and tone, it makes sense that [es.ttaː] and [*as.stɐ˥] are the only two with an /s/. So we have a rough map forming.
[es.ttaː - *as.stɐ˥ - *æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [al.tʉː] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ]

The map is correct!

[al.tʉː] has /l/, and all the others have /t/ or a dental affricate involving a kind of /ɬ/. This will be addressed later, but that's why I think /ɬ/ was C1.
[ataɬ] has /t/, [ad͡ɮ] and [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] a /tɬ/ affricate. Another point on the map.

/ɬ/ for C1 is close but not correct. However, all but two forms turned that consonant into /ɬ/ at some point. And the original C1 consonant is found in none of the words.

Consonant2: If there is one at all, it's a plosive and dental. Clearly universal (as C1 or C2). Question is what exactly.

This is correct.

Vowel2: The fun stuff. It can't be a straight /a/; but there's a tendency to it. V2 may have tone, or length, but not both.

Yeah, it's been shifty.

[ad͡ɮ] and [ataɬ] are weird. One has only one syllable. The other has a final consonant, and no obvious C2.

Hint: epenthesis

[*as.stɐ˥] and [al.tʉː] share a weird roundish vowel. Hmmm.

I wouldn't call [ɐ] "roundish"; could you explain that?

[*as.stɐ˥] and [ad͡ɮ] are reduced by V2. Hmmmm.

As in, V2 is reduced/nonexistent?

Let's wipe some grime away. Get rid of the /e/s in [es.ttaː - *as.stɐ˥ - *æ.t͡ɬæ˥].
[as.ttaː - *as.stɐ˥ - *a.t͡ɬa˥].

Yeppp!

Obviously, the first two were [as.ttaː - *as.sta˥]. But note the above on [al.tʉː]. Also note the gemination.

Wait, what about [al.tʉː] should I note here?

And *as.sta˥ is not a correct ancestral form. Neither, I believe, is *as.ttaː. You've been led astray in V2.

Let's toss in some facts:
Must be VCCV overall, either V1 C1 or C2 is long, last vowel is not /a/. Possibly no final /l/.

Yeah.

Going of my prev. guess, the answer looks almost like aɬ.tə˥l. This makes sense.
I feel one question remains: what is long?

atɬ.tə˥l

3/5 segments correct. One of the incorrect ones is nonexistent, one of the incorrect segments is simply wrong.

[thethief3]

aɬ.t:ə

[Arayaz]

aɬ.t:ə

thethief:

Spoiler:

Overall word shape is correct, discounting segment length. One segment is perfect, two are the correct sound but not the correct secondary details, and one is close but not correct. There is no /tː/ in the protoform.

[Visions1]

Spoiler:

aɬɬtə˥l

[Visions1]

I have noticed several errors, but they don't make it any harder to reconstruct; all that changes is that some of the forms aren't accurate to the actual languages. But it's fine.

Visions:

Spoiler:

So firstly, /h/ seems late. We can just chop it off.
[al.tʉː] [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ] [es.ttaː] [*as.stɐ˥]
[*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] and [*as.stɐ˥] live next to eachother.

Yep yep!

Let's pay attention to some salient groupings:
Vowel1: [al.tʉː] [*as.stɐ˥] [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ] [es.ttaː]
Clearly used to be an /a/. But how do we group the children?
The only ones without /a/ are [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] and [es.ttaː]. We can assume the are next to eachother.

*checks map* not quite next to each other, I'm afraid, but not far either.

Consonant1: [al.tʉː] [es.ttaː] [*as.stɐ˥] [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ]
Considering [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] and [*as.stɐ˥] have an /h/ and tone, it makes sense that [es.ttaː] and [*as.stɐ˥] are the only two with an /s/. So we have a rough map forming.
[es.ttaː - *as.stɐ˥ - *æ.t͡ɬæ˥] [al.tʉː] [ad͡ɮ] [ataɬ]

The map is correct!

[al.tʉː] has /l/, and all the others have /t/ or a dental affricate involving a kind of /ɬ/. This will be addressed later, but that's why I think /ɬ/ was C1.
[ataɬ] has /t/, [ad͡ɮ] and [*æ.t͡ɬæ˥] a /tɬ/ affricate. Another point on the map.

/ɬ/ for C1 is close but not correct. However, all but two forms turned that consonant into /ɬ/ at some point. And the original C1 consonant is found in none of the words.

Consonant2: If there is one at all, it's a plosive and dental. Clearly universal (as C1 or C2). Question is what exactly.

This is correct.

Vowel2: The fun stuff. It can't be a straight /a/; but there's a tendency to it. V2 may have tone, or length, but not both.

Yeah, it's been shifty.

[ad͡ɮ] and [ataɬ] are weird. One has only one syllable. The other has a final consonant, and no obvious C2.

Hint: epenthesis

[*as.stɐ˥] and [al.tʉː] share a weird roundish vowel. Hmmm.

I wouldn't call [ɐ] "roundish"; could you explain that?

[*as.stɐ˥] and [ad͡ɮ] are reduced by V2. Hmmmm.

As in, V2 is reduced/nonexistent?

Let's wipe some grime away. Get rid of the /e/s in [es.ttaː - *as.stɐ˥ - *æ.t͡ɬæ˥].
[as.ttaː - *as.stɐ˥ - *a.t͡ɬa˥].

Yeppp!

Obviously, the first two were [as.ttaː - *as.sta˥]. But note the above on [al.tʉː]. Also note the gemination.

Wait, what about [al.tʉː] should I note here?

And *as.sta˥ is not a correct ancestral form. Neither, I believe, is *as.ttaː. You've been led astray in V2.

Let's toss in some facts:
Must be VCCV overall, either V1 C1 or C2 is long, last vowel is not /a/. Possibly no final /l/.

Yeah.

Going of my prev. guess, the answer looks almost like aɬ.tə˥l. This makes sense.
I feel one question remains: what is long?

atɬ.tə˥l

3/5 segments correct. One of the incorrect ones is nonexistent, one of the incorrect segments is simply wrong.

Spoiler:

aɬɬtə˥l

[Arayaz]

Spoiler:

aɬɬtə˥l

Visions:

Spoiler:

Very close. You have one segment that isn't there in the proto, and one of your segments is not quite the correct phoneme. Although, that second one has been something I've said for quite some time for quite a number of people, and I doubt it's that intuitive what it used to be. The /st/ in [es.ttaː] is a reflex of it.

[conlang-creature]

I'm not great with sound changes, but this still seems like a fun game. My first thought is:
atte˥

After reading some suggestions/hints, perhaps something like adte˥l is more likely?

[Arayaz]

I'm not great with sound changes, but this still seems like a fun game. My first thought is:
atte˥

After reading some suggestions/hints, perhaps something like adte˥l is more likely?

conlang-creature:

Spoiler:

The former guess is closer, so all of the following is advice for it.

The final vowel is not correct. There is a /t/ in the protolanguage in the second-to-last position, but it is not geminated. There is one proto-segment missing.

[Arayaz]

If nobody else wishes to submit a guess, the round would end now and Visions would win (although still not being perfect).

If anybody else wants to give a guess before the round ends, you don't have to submit it today, but I'd like confirmation that you plan to make one.

[conlang-creature]

I have another guess, I just didn't want to submit two in a row.

[Arayaz]

I have another guess, I just didn't want to submit two in a row.

Hmm. I'm not fully clear on the rules of the game, but I think you can submit two in a row, especially now.

Also, please everyone, give me a little bit of your thought process as well! It helps me give better feedback.

[Visions1]

If it's been a while, you can submit again. I think I did that.
Like a day or 12 hours or something.

[Arayaz]

If it's been a while, you can submit again. I think I did that.
Like a day or 12 hours or something.

So seven days should be plenty ─ go ahead, conlang-creature!

[conlang-creature]

axtɐ˥
I'm not sure if this satisfies your missing proto-segment advice though. I wasn't entirely sure what that meant

Edit: I missed the ɬ before, and it makes sense so...
axtɐ˥ɬ

[Arayaz]

axtɐ˥
I'm not sure if this satisfies your missing proto-segment advice though. I wasn't entirely sure what that meant

Edit: I missed the ɬ before, and it makes sense so...
axtɐ˥ɬ

conlang-creature:

Spoiler:

The final vowel is closer, although it's still not perfect. There is no *x in the protoform, although you are correct that that space is occupied by a voiceless fricative.
The protoform ends with a vowel.
As for the missing proto-segment advice, I was referring to the fricative, which wasn't there in your original guess.

[Arayaz]

Okay, does anyone have another guess, or should I give Visions the victory here?