Ohh, my bad. As you've noticed, I'm new here. I guess I should've read this a little more carefully first.
Quick Diachronics Challenge
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Bóbr! Bóbr kurwa!
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
In all fairness, and completely understand where you were coming from, I don't think there's, like, one set of rules in thus thread, or other similar threads. It's just sort of convention, I guess
Again, though, welcome to the Board!
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
- Creyeditor
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- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Sorry for the delay, but here is the solution. The protoform was *kidekide. The grouping was [[[cilecira cideceda] sidiside] [[kezehize kiaxia] kiraikirai]]. With intermediate forms, the whole thing looks something like this.
So, all in all, Sangi was closest and I declare him the winner.
Code: Select all
*kidekide
-- cidecide
--- cidecida
---- cilecira (Elvish)
---- cideceda (Nymphish)
--- cidicide
---- sidiside (Fairy-ish)
-- kidekide
--- kizexize
---- kezexize
----- kezehize (Dwarfish)
---- kiexie
----- kiaxia (Orcish)
--- kideikidei
---- kireikirei
----- kiraikirai (Goblinish)
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
So close! I had considered that the second and fourth vowels were /e/ with diphthongisation in Goblinish, but settled on /ai/ with monophthongisation in everything but GoblinishCreyeditor wrote: ↑18 Apr 2023 23:53 Sorry for the delay, but here is the solution. The protoform was *kidekide. The grouping was [[[cilecira cideceda] sidiside] [[kezehize kiaxia] kiraikirai]]. With intermediate forms, the whole thing looks something like this.
So, all in all, Sangi was closest and I declare him the winner.Code: Select all
*kidekide -- cidecide --- cidecida ---- cilecira (Elvish) ---- cideceda (Nymphish) --- cidicide ---- sidiside (Fairy-ish) -- kidekide --- kizexize ---- kezexize ----- kezehize (Dwarfish) ---- kiexie ----- kiaxia (Orcish) --- kideikidei ---- kireikirei ----- kiraikirai (Goblinish)
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Okay, so, threw this together fairly quickly:
1) uːit
2) 'õgda
3) 'ŋũggeːt
4) 'ʔuŋŋaiθ
5) pý'ⁿgás
6) pý'gî
7) 'pýːcìʔ
8) 'pýətɕì
9) 'pʰutɕijja
10) pʰo'ɕiʁ
11) 'puʰcçil
12) 'puːssəl
13) 'funkt
14) 'ɸunks
15) 'huontta
16) 'waːttə
acute accents, grave accents, and circumflexes mark high, low, and rising-falling tones, respectively
1) uːit
2) 'õgda
3) 'ŋũggeːt
4) 'ʔuŋŋaiθ
5) pý'ⁿgás
6) pý'gî
7) 'pýːcìʔ
8) 'pýətɕì
9) 'pʰutɕijja
10) pʰo'ɕiʁ
11) 'puʰcçil
12) 'puːssəl
13) 'funkt
14) 'ɸunks
15) 'huontta
16) 'waːttə
acute accents, grave accents, and circumflexes mark high, low, and rising-falling tones, respectively
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5123
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Ooh, tones. So let's try a tonal reconstruction then. (S=stressed, u=unstressed, H=high, L=low, HL=falling)
1)U
2)S.U
3)S.U:
4)S.U
5)H.H
6)UH.SHL
7)H:.L
8)SH.UL
9)S.U
10)U.S
11)S.U
12)S:.U
13)S
14)S
15)S.U
16)S:.U
So, I guess 5,6,7 form a group, assuming that tonogenisis only happened once and there was no stress-o-genesis. 8 is probably an outlier, forming the next higher grouping as it's kind of a missing link. Proto -5,6,7,8 was probably SH:.UL similar to 8. Proto-5,6,7 was then probably H:.L and with different kinds of spreading in 5 and 6.
If length is attributed to proto-all, then proto-all was probably S:.U. I thought of this because length keeps popping up in different forms. We could then have a split between length retaining 12,16 and the length-losing rest. 5,6,7,8 would go with the former, maybe 13 and 14 also? 1 and 10 would then form their own groups because they lost or shifted stress. I might put in more effort later.
1)U
2)S.U
3)S.U:
4)S.U
5)H.H
6)UH.SHL
7)H:.L
8)SH.UL
9)S.U
10)U.S
11)S.U
12)S:.U
13)S
14)S
15)S.U
16)S:.U
So, I guess 5,6,7 form a group, assuming that tonogenisis only happened once and there was no stress-o-genesis. 8 is probably an outlier, forming the next higher grouping as it's kind of a missing link. Proto -5,6,7,8 was probably SH:.UL similar to 8. Proto-5,6,7 was then probably H:.L and with different kinds of spreading in 5 and 6.
If length is attributed to proto-all, then proto-all was probably S:.U. I thought of this because length keeps popping up in different forms. We could then have a split between length retaining 12,16 and the length-losing rest. 5,6,7,8 would go with the former, maybe 13 and 14 also? 1 and 10 would then form their own groups because they lost or shifted stress. I might put in more effort later.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
My first guess, sorry for the delay:
1) uːit
2) 'õgda
3) 'ŋũggeːt
4) 'ʔuŋŋaiθ
5) pý'ⁿgás
< ˈpuŋdait
6) pý'gî
7) 'pýːcìʔ
8) 'pýətɕì
< ˈpýkīʔ
9) 'pʰutɕijja
10) pʰo'ɕiʁ
11) 'puʰcçil
12) 'puːssəl
< ˈpuhcil
13) 'funkt (typo for /ŋ/ or is there no assimilation?)
14) 'ɸunks (typo for /ŋ/ or is there no assimilation?)
15) 'huontta
16) 'waːttə
< ˈɸunkta
ˈpuhcil
ˈpýkīʔ
< ˈpuhkid
ˈpuŋdait
ˈɸunkta
< ˈpuŋ(k)tet
ˈpuhkid
ˈpuŋ(k)tet
< ˈpuhkted
1) uːit
2) 'õgda
3) 'ŋũggeːt
4) 'ʔuŋŋaiθ
5) pý'ⁿgás
< ˈpuŋdait
6) pý'gî
7) 'pýːcìʔ
8) 'pýətɕì
< ˈpýkīʔ
9) 'pʰutɕijja
10) pʰo'ɕiʁ
11) 'puʰcçil
12) 'puːssəl
< ˈpuhcil
13) 'funkt (typo for /ŋ/ or is there no assimilation?)
14) 'ɸunks (typo for /ŋ/ or is there no assimilation?)
15) 'huontta
16) 'waːttə
< ˈɸunkta
ˈpuhcil
ˈpýkīʔ
< ˈpuhkid
ˈpuŋdait
ˈɸunkta
< ˈpuŋ(k)tet
ˈpuhkid
ˈpuŋ(k)tet
< ˈpuhkted
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I'll wait to see if another person or two have a guess, but ɶʙ ɞʛ is right that the nasal in 13 and 14 should be /ŋ/
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
For whatever it's worth, I'm hoping to be able to give it a go, but I haven't had a whole lot of free time since the current challenge was first posted.
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Initial attempt:
Spoiler:
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5123
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
This really is a fun challenge. I recently tried to come up with my second guess but then I noticed it's too much for a 15-minute tram ride Sorry about that.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Haha, I completely get that I was trying to come up with replies betweem work and, well, more workCreyeditor wrote: ↑17 May 2023 08:14 This really is a fun challenge. I recently tried to come up with my second guess but then I noticed it's too much for a 15-minute tram ride Sorry about that.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Second attempt:
Spoiler:
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Second guess:
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
So, I think I'm going to have to give this one to shimobaatar, but once second guesses came in, it was super close!
Code: Select all
*'punkita > 'pungita > 'ʔungita > 'ũgita > 'uːɣita > uːit
> 'õgeta > 'õgda
>'ʔungiːtə
>'ʔungeːt > 'ŋũgːeːt
> 'ʔuŋːaiθ
> 'pyⁿgit > 'pýⁿgés > 'pýⁿgás > pý'ⁿgás
> 'pýgî > pý'gî
> 'pỹgìʔ > 'pýːcìʔ
> 'pýətɕì
> 'pʰunkita > 'pʰuncida > 'pʰuciða
>'pʰuciɣa
>'pʰuciʁa > 'pʰutɕijja
> 'pʰuɕiʁ > pʰo'ɕiʁ
> 'pʰuccil(ə) > 'puʰcçil
> 'pussəl
> 'funk(ə)ta > 'funkt(ə) > 'funkt
> 'ɸunks
> 'huənkta > 'huontta
> 'waːtta > 'waːttə
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Ah, my apologies! I thought I had already responded to this. I've been pretty busy these past few weeks, but I hope to have something for the next round of this game soon. Thank you, sangi39, for your work on the previous round!
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Alright, sorry again for the wait. Ideally, I'd like to have spent more time putting this together, but I didn't want to delay things even more. Hopefully this will be neither too easy nor too hard.
NW [ˈwĩːru] - N [əi̯nˈdʉu̯] - NE [ˌʝiːnʊˈlwaː]
W [jãĩ̯ˈroə̯] - C [ˈhei̯ndoː] - E [ɟeˈɲ̊ɔu̯]
SW [døsˈnœːry] - S [ˈzɔstr̩bi] - SE [ˈʑot͡ɕɛːf]
C = central, E = eastern, N = northern, S = southern, W = western
This 3x3 arrangement is meant to serve as a very rough "map" of where these nine related languages are currently spoken, although any historical migrations that may have taken place within this area have not been indicated.
Please let me know if there's anything you'd like me to clarify!
NW [ˈwĩːru] - N [əi̯nˈdʉu̯] - NE [ˌʝiːnʊˈlwaː]
W [jãĩ̯ˈroə̯] - C [ˈhei̯ndoː] - E [ɟeˈɲ̊ɔu̯]
SW [døsˈnœːry] - S [ˈzɔstr̩bi] - SE [ˈʑot͡ɕɛːf]
C = central, E = eastern, N = northern, S = southern, W = western
This 3x3 arrangement is meant to serve as a very rough "map" of where these nine related languages are currently spoken, although any historical migrations that may have taken place within this area have not been indicated.
Please let me know if there's anything you'd like me to clarify!
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)