Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

[Porphyrogenitos]

Not sure what this is meant to be.

/m n/ ⟨m n⟩
/p t k/ ⟨p t k⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/v s x/ ⟨w s h⟩
/r l j/ ⟨r l j⟩

/i y u/ ⟨i y u⟩
/e o/ ⟨e o⟩
/a/ ⟨a⟩

Maximal syllable structure CRVC. Any consonant may be in either the onset or coda.

Permissible CR clusters:

pr pl pj
br bl bj
tr tv tj
dr dv dj
kr kl kv kj
gr gl gv gj
sv sj

/tj dj sj/ are [tʃ dʒ ʃ]; /kj gj xj/ are [c ɟ ç].

In open syllables, vowels are long. In closed syllables, the vowels are [ɪ ʏ ʊ ɛ ɔ ɐ].

In unstressed syllables, the contrast between /i/ and /y/ is lost (in favor of /i/).

The orthography faintly suggests something Germanic or Slavic, though the phonotactics are too simple for that.

What to do about coda /v/? My initial thought was to make it [w], so there could be phonetic diphthongs with both [j] and [w]. But for a more Germanic or Slavic flair it could undergo devoicing/assimilation in voicing.

Likewise, I could also have /b d g/ devoice word/morpheme-finally.

For a more Germanic or at least northern European feel, I could also expand the vowel contrasts - perhaps in open syllables there ought to be a mid-high and mid-low contrast.

But of course it lacks /f/ and /sC/ clusters. Perhaps it could be a Germanic language where /f/ merged with /x/. Or maybe it didn't historically have /f/, but /f/ was introduced via loanwords, if it is indeed in a European setting.

Another Germanic feature that could be added is /ŋ/, for the coda only.

Maybe this could be for a funny little non-IE language situated in northern Europe somewhere.

[Creyeditor]

What to do about coda /v/? My initial thought was to make it [w], so there could be phonetic diphthongs with both [j] and [w]. But for a more Germanic or Slavic flair it could undergo devoicing/assimilation in voicing.

Heligoland Frisian has /v/->[w] finally, but also /b/->[p] in the same position. And it's Germanic. Maybe this could be a language isolate on some North Sea Island...

[Omzinesý]

p t k kʷ ʔ <p t k qu '>
t͡s k͡s <c x>
s h <s h>
m n ŋ <m n ng>
β l ɹ j ɰ w <b l r y g w>

i ʉ <i u>
o <o>
ä <a>

CGV(:)U

G: β l ɹ j w <b l r y w>
U: p̚ t̚ k̚ k̚ʷ ʔ̚

[Creyeditor]

/m n/
/mb b nd d t tʰ k kʰ/
/ts kx/
/s x/
/β z/
/ʙ r/
/l ʟ/

/i u/
/ɪ/
/e/
/ɛ ɔ/
/æ ɑ/

the language probably has ATR vowel harmony and something going on with nasals (maybe dissimilation) and probably also consonant gradation. /ʙ ʟ/ might be marginal in some way.

[VaptuantaDoi]

Thinking about reviving Ánni. With lots of tones presumably. I never liked old Ánni very much but the idea was interesting.

Code: Select all

        t    k             i         u
   ps   ts                   i͡a   u͡a
   m    n                   ɪ      
   ɸ    s                  e   ø     o
   w   ɫ̪  z  j              ɛ       ɔ
                                a
       kǀ kǃ
       ŋǀ ŋǃ

And hey, thinking of re-vamping Ai too:

/b d k/
/s h/

/i y u ɛ œ ɔ a/

b d k → [β l ʕ] / V_V
h → [x] / _œ

With proto-Tariku *i̝ u̝ i u ɛ ɔ a → */i y e u ɛ ɔ a/ then a Landais Occitan-style shift */e/ → /œ/:

*kdiCV → /di/ "banana"
*tuCV → /ky/ "penis"
*pidi → /hœdœ/ "skin"
*kuda → /uda/ "tree"

As you can see here there has been a *t k → /k Ø/ shift.

[Omzinesý]

p t k kʷ ʔ <p t k qu '>
t͡s k͡s <c x>
s h <s h>
m n ŋ <m n ng>
β l ɹ j ɰ w <b l r y g w>

i ʉ <i u>
o <o>
ä <a>

CGV(:)U

G: β l ɹ j w <b l r y w>
U: p̚ t̚ k̚ k̚ʷ ʔ̚

A second version:

t' k' kʷ' <tt kk qq>
p t k kʷ ʔ <p t k qu '>
t͡s k͡s <c x>
s h <s h>
m n ŋ <m n ng>
l ɹ j w <l r y w>

i ʉ <i u>
o <o>
ä <a>

Maximal syllable: CVU
where U is /ʔ/ or /h/.

Vowels are short, long, or (longish) nasalized.
High and low tone, no contours.

[Arayaz]

/t k/
/s x/
/m n/
/ɾ j w/

/ɨ/
/e o/
/a/

CV(m, k)

Are there any natural languages that have /ɨ/ without /i/?

[VaptuantaDoi]

Are there any natural languages that have /ɨ/ without /i/?

Hixkaryana has /ɯ u e ɔ æ/, and /ɯ/ is basically the same thing as /ɨ/.

[_Just_A_Sketch]

Are there any natural languages that have /ɨ/ without /i/?

Looking through phoible there are some languages with /ɨ/ but no /i/. It's certainly not common, but it does exist.

[_Just_A_Sketch]

A possible descendent of my current conlang project. I was messing around with sound changes and accidently made the sound inventory more than two times larger lol. This is probably the largest inventory Ive made but I am really vibing with it.

/m, m:, n, n:, ɲ, ɲ:, ŋ, ŋ:/ m, mm, n, nn, nh, nnh, ng, nng
/p, b, t, d, c, ɟ, k, g/ p, b, t, d, c, j, k, g
/β, βː, ð, ð:, s,s:, z, z:, ʝ, ʝ:, ɣ, ɣ:/ bh, bb, dh, dd, s, ss, z, zz, jh, jj, gh, gg
/lʷ, lʷ:, l, l:, ʎ, ʎ/ lw, llw, l, ll, lh, llh
/w, w:, j, j:/ w, ww, y, yy

/i, i:, y:~ʉ:, u, u:/ i, ii, ü, u, uu
/ɛ, e:, ø:~ɵ:, ɔ, o:/ e, ee, ö, o, oo
/ä/ a
/ai̯, au̯/ ai, au

[Omzinesý]

p t k kʷ ʔ <p t k qu '>
t͡s k͡s <c x>
s h <s h>
m n ŋ <m n ng>
β l ɹ j ɰ w <b l r y g w>

i ʉ <i u>
o <o>
ä <a>

CGV(:)U

G: β l ɹ j w <b l r y w>
U: p̚ t̚ k̚ k̚ʷ ʔ̚

A second version:

t' k' kʷ' <tt kk qq>
p t k kʷ ʔ <p t k qu '>
t͡s k͡s <c x>
s h <s h>
m n ŋ <m n ng>
l ɹ j w <l r y w>

i ʉ <i u>
o <o>
ä <a>

Maximal syllable: CVU
where U is /ʔ/ or /h/.

Vowels are short, long, or (longish) nasalized.
High and low tone, no contours.

And still one version

p' t' k' <tt kk>
p t k ʔ <p t k qu '>
t͡s k͡s <c x>
s h <s h>
m n ŋ <m n ng>
β l ɹ j w <v l r y>

i ĩ ɨ ɨ̃ u ũ
ə
æ æ̃ ɑ ɑ̃ ɔ ɔ̃

Onset clusters: plosive/affricate + approximant
Coda /ʔ/ or /h/
All unstressed vowels are schwa, but schwa can be stressed.
There are two tones high and low on the stressed syllables.
/l/ and nasals can appear as syllablic consonants and, if stressed, have tone (much as in Bantu.)

[Nortaneous]

/ɴ ʔ/
/ɸ s ʃ x xʷ/
/m n ɲ ŋ ŋʷ/
/r j w/
/ə/

Syllable structure: (C)(ə)(ɴ|ʔ) + extrametrical initial glottal. ɴ may not appear before a nasal.

ʔF > P
ɴF ɴw ɴr ɴj > MB mbw ndr ɲɟ
əə əjə əwə > a e o
ɴ > ɦ̃ / V_V
Vɴ > Ṽ / _#
ɨ is epenthetic
Kʷə Kʷɨ > Ko Ku

[ɸaʔ xotɨ jaⁿbwuoⁿbəⁿdro xondə̃ seiteiʔ kʷiʔombɨ fandrombəŋgə xutɨrɨŋgə ŋ̩goxũ]
/ɸəəʔ xʷəʔt jəəɴwwɴɸəɴrəw xʷəɴsəɴ səjʔsəjʔ kʷjʔwəɴɸ ɸəəɴrəwəɴɸəɴxə xʷˀsrɴxə ɴxʷəxʷɴ/

[p t tʃ k kʷ] (labiovelars only occur before front vowels)
[mb nd ndʒ ŋg ŋgʷ]
[ɸ s ʃ x xʷ]
[m n ɲ ŋ ŋʷ ɦ̃]
[mbw ndr ɲɟ]
[a e ə o i ɨ u]

[DV82LECM]

/ɴ ʔ/
/ɸ s ʃ x xʷ/
/m n ɲ ŋ ŋʷ/
/r j w/
/ə/

Syllable structure: (C)(ə)(ɴ|ʔ) + extrametrical initial glottal. ɴ may not appear before a nasal.

ʔF > P
ɴF ɴw ɴr ɴj > MB mbw ndr ɲɟ
əə əjə əwə > a e o
ɴ > ɦ̃ / V_V
Vɴ > Ṽ / _#
ɨ is epenthetic
Kʷə Kʷɨ > Ko Ku

[ɸaʔ xotɨ jaⁿbwuoⁿbəⁿdro xondə̃ seiteiʔ kʷiʔombɨ fandrombəŋgə xutɨrɨŋgə ŋ̩goxũ]
/ɸəəʔ xʷəʔt jəəɴwwɴɸəɴrəw xʷəɴsəɴ səjʔsəjʔ kʷjʔwəɴɸ xʷtrɴxə ɴxʷəxʷɴ/

[p t tʃ k kʷ] (labiovelars only occur before front vowels)
[mb nd ndʒ ŋg ŋgʷ]
[ɸ s ʃ x xʷ]
[m n ɲ ŋ ŋʷ ɦ̃]
[mbw ndr ɲɟ]
[a e ə o i ɨ u]

What is the phonemic form of [fandrombəŋgə]?

/ɸəəɴrəwɴɸəɴxə/?

There also seems to be a random phonemic /t/. Is this an allophone? There is a phonetically rendered [t], which makes sense to your diagrams. Would you shed light?

No matter what, this is awesome, and weirdly intuitive.

[WeepingElf]

Yes. It blows my own Svalbardian right out of the water!

[DV82LECM]

Yes. It blows my own Svalbardian right out of the water!

I had one called Yatton that had /p t k ʔ i u a/. (Sadly, it got weird.) Your allophony is very reminiscent of my process, then.

[Omzinesý]

And hey, thinking of re-vamping Ai too:

/b d k/
/s h/

/i y u ɛ œ ɔ a/

b d k → [β l ʕ] / V_V
h → [x] / _œ

With proto-Tariku *i̝ u̝ i u ɛ ɔ a → */i y e u ɛ ɔ a/ then a Landais Occitan-style shift */e/ → /œ/:

*kdiCV → /di/ "banana"
*tuCV → /ky/ "penis"
*pidi → /hœdœ/ "skin"
*kuda → /uda/ "tree"

As you can see here there has been a *t k → /k Ø/ shift.

I would like to see Ai be active again.

[Porphyrogenitos]

I'm loving all of these minimalist, Iau/Gadsup-influenced inventories. Also, WeepingElf, since you mentioned it, I've been a fan of your Svalbardian sketch ever since I encountered it. It would be cool to see you do something more with it.

[WeepingElf]

I'm loving all of these minimalist, Iau/Gadsup-influenced inventories. Also, WeepingElf, since you mentioned it, I've been a fan of your Svalbardian sketch ever since I encountered it. It would be cool to see you do something more with it.

Thank you! I do have the intention to do something more with it, but it currently doesn't have high priority.

[Nortaneous]

What is the phonemic form of [fandrombəŋgə]?

/ɸəəɴrəwəɴɸəɴxə/?

There also seems to be a random phonemic /t/. Is this an allophone? There is a phonetically rendered [t], which makes sense to your diagrams. Would you shed light?

oops

[Arayaz]

Proto-system:

/p pˠ b bˠ t tˠ d dˠ k̟ k̠/
/v vˠ s sˠ z zˠ/
/m mˠ n nˠ ŋ˖ ŋ˗/
/r rˠ l lˠ/

/æ i u/ ~ /ɑ e o/ when adjacent to velarized consonants (but not [pre]velars) or uvulars

Merge velars with uvulars
æ, e → ɛ
ɑ, o → ɔ

Proto-language mostly consists of monosyllabic CVC roots, with -V(C) suffixes

Modern language has some semblance of height harmony...kinda?

tod, tode (*tadˠ, tadˠi)
ted, tedi(*tad, tadi)