Kobardon - Lingua Franca used in Frédauon

[Omzinesý]

There is too much text for me, as a conlanger just looking for interesting features, to read all of it.

B) too much text

But I hope people don't describe their langs just listing interesting features. So, as a description of a conlang's syntax I think it is very good. Because the alternatives are very humble:

I) it was alright

[Creyeditor]

That's actually really good feedback. I might include tl;dr sections in some of the next posts. That also gives me some ideas on how to fill the space between section headings and the first subsection heading in that section (in the pdf). "Notable features of Kobardon [insert section name here] include..." is probably something that one should read more often in the Kobardon grammar. Next post will be tl;dr on sentential and clausal syntax.

[Acipencer]

I liked it. As Omzinesý said, there is a lot to read through but I didn't mind that so much because it was pretty interesting and well explained. I would like if you could tell us a bit about the phonology and/or the orthography, maybe you could include a phonemic gloss in your example sentences?

[Creyeditor]

I think I can't add a phonemic and a phonological form to every example in the grammar. That would be so much work! Maybe if I get six month of of work and the rest of my RL (which I hope I don't). But I can include an orthographic note in the very first post so that you can guess the phonemic form at least; the orthography is relatively shallow. Let's see when I find the time. But thank you for the feedback

[Creyeditor]

tl;dr on sentential and clausal syntax:

• SVOX word order, where X includes adverbs, negation and polar question marker.
• Lots of clefts.
• Clauses are generally linked by particles that serve as preposition and conjunctions.
• Both deranked (action nominalization) and balanced (ut clause) clause embedding.
• Subject-verb inversion for optative constructions.
• No wh-fronting but a question word meaning to do what.
• Three and a half different copulas.

[Creyeditor]

Indirect cognate Objects
A large number of intransitive verbs can add a cognate object using the particle et about. Note that this cognate object is always the indirect object. The cognate object will often be a noun derived from the same root as the verb. In other cases, an action nominalization is used instead. The cognate object is usually in its indefinite singular form. The verb will usually be intransitive.

(34) Examples of cognate objects
a. Abrint et brinta.
a-brint et brint-a
1SG.S-wise about knowledge-INDEF.SG
`I am wise (lit. I am wise about knowledge.)'
b. Afáv et fáva.
a-fáv et fáv-a
1SG.S-have.nightmare about nightmare-INDEF.SG
`I have a nightmare. (lit. I have a nightmare about a nightmare.)'

Like other indirect objects, cognate objects can be split from the verb by adverbials.

(35) Examples of cognate objects and adverbials
a. Abrint fridat et brinta.
a-brint frid-at et brint-a
1SG.S-wise yesterday-SG about knowledge-INDEF.SG\\
`Yesterday, I was wise.'
b. Afáv fridat et fáva.
a-fáv frid-at et fáv-a
1SG.S-have.nightmare yesterday about nightmare-INDEF.SG
`I had a nightmare yesterday.'

[eldin raigmore]

tl;dr on sentential and clausal syntax:

• SVOX word order, where X includes adverbs, negation and polar question marker.
• Lots of clefts.
• Clauses are generally linked by particles that serve as preposition and conjunctions.
• Both deranked (action nominalization) and balanced (ut clause) clause embedding.
• Subject-verb inversion for optative constructions.
• No wh-fronting but a question word meaning to do what.
• Three and a half different copulas.

Please explain about the fractional copula!

….

(The cognate objects are fascinating, BTW!)
(How would one say “I am fascinated about the cognate indirect objects”?)

[Creyeditor]

Well, there are three copula roots but one can be used in its transitive and its intransitive forms in different functions. So it's not really four (because two of them share a root) but also not really three (because four functions are covered by four different forms). It's a sloppy way of formulating it.

I have not yet decided what conceptual metaphors to use for language and grammar in Kobardon, so I cannot really translate that. But I will try to check what 'I am facinated' could be asap.
And thanks for your comment/reply of course

[eldin raigmore]

How is a copular verb (or verbal copula) transitive? Doesn’t its predicate contain a predicate nominative rather than an object?
…
Incidentally; copulas don’t _have_ to be verbs. (Actually they _can_ be phonological zeroes!)
Of course, they _can_ be verbs.
…
I don’t know whether transitive vs intransitive is really the alternation that would be useful in thinking/talking about copulas.
….
I may not have thought long enough before replying! If that’s so, I apologize!
…
I think your conlang here is one I like; otherwise I might not have much to say about it.

Anyway, your post explains why you said your ‘lang has three-and-a-half copulas!

Thanks!

[Arayaz]

How is a copular verb (or verbal copula) transitive? Doesn’t its predicate contain a predicate nominative rather than an object?

CMIIR, but I think that that's just a product of English-specific grammatical analysis like you might find in a classroom.

And Kobardon is beautiful. I love the spelling; it reminds me of Irish. Learning materials?

[eldin raigmore]

CMIIR, but I think that that's just a product of English-specific grammatical analysis like you might find in a classroom.

And Kobardon is beautiful. I love the spelling; it reminds me of Irish. Learning materials?

I’m guessing you meant CMIIW (Correct Me If I’m Wrong)?
I don’t think I have any idea whether you’re your remark (quoted above) is Right or Wrong (or whatever other truth-values it might have).
At worst I think it’s a valid opinion!

[Arayaz]

CMIIR, but I think that that's just a product of English-specific grammatical analysis like you might find in a classroom.

And Kobardon is beautiful. I love the spelling; it reminds me of Irish. Learning materials?

I’m guessing you meant CMIIW (Correct Me If I’m Wrong)?
I don’t think I have any idea whether you’re remark (quoted above) is Right or Wrong (or whatever other truth-values it might have).
At worst I think it’s a valid opinion!

Indeed I did. I'm not sure whether it was the sound of "wrong" or just a typo that caused me to get that rong.

Please, tell me it was intentional that you said you're there.

[Creyeditor]

@Eldin: The existential copula is intransitive in that it only takes one argument. In Kobardon, the 'object' of any of the other copulas is in its object form if it's a pronoun, so it kind of has an accusative case. You wouldn't notice from any real noun though. On the other hand, the arguments of a copula cannot undergo all the syntactic processes that other arguments can undergo, e.g. optative inversion. I should probably add this to the post on copulas.

@Üdj: Irish? I would've never thought of that. Why?
Also, no, there are no learning materials available. And I don't think I will ever find the time to design them. In fact, this is kind of the test phase of the grammar that I am writing and hopefully expanding based on your (PL) feedback.

[Arayaz]

@Üdj: Irish? I would've never thought of that. Why?
Also, no, there are no learning materials available. And I don't think I will ever find the time to design them. In fact, this is kind of the test phase of the grammar that I am writing and hopefully expanding based on your (PL) feedback.

I'm not sure what I meant either. Different eyes lead to different interpretations? And perhaps my eyes now have changed from my eyes of two days ago. I'd say the word brádat looks like it belongs in Irish (as does Frédauon, though it wouldn't technically be a valid word). The language has a lot of potential to appear in different ways, I'd say. I think it does achieve the touch of Swahili you went for.

[Creyeditor]

I see. Acute accent, phonotactics, and chains of vowel letters indeed give it an Irish touch. I wasn't thinking of this, since (a) the acute accents will be macrons in the grammar (b) I hadn't though of the vowel chains becauae they are bisyllabic phonologically and (c) I still haven't gotten used to the idea that so many Kobardon wotd are of the structure C(C)VC(C)V(C)C. In my head thete are so many more trisyllabic Kobardon words
So an oversight on my part and very much valid feedback

[eldin raigmore]

Please, tell me it was intentional that you said you're there.

I could tell you that; but if I were to do so, I would be lying!

I meant your, not you’re.

[Arayaz]

Please, tell me it was intentional that you said you're there.

I could tell you that; but if I were to do so, I would be lying!

I meant your, not you’re.

Of course; it's a fa(s)t-fingers mistake I've made before myself too. I just had to check in case it was satire/joking of my CMIIR.

[Creyeditor]

Object Splitting

For a certain group of verbs, an alternation optionally applies to a noun phrase in direct object position that includes the coordinating particle ob and. The coordinated object can be split and any number of adverbs can intervene between the first conjunct and the coordinating particle. This in turn means that the second conjunct can appear anywhere inside or at the edge of a string of adverbs. In the example in (36), the negation sirat and the second conjunct ob ióua can switch places.


(36) Object splitting
a. Adako vúnda ob ióua sirat.
a-dak-o vúnd-a ob ióu-a sir-at
1SG-want-3SG water-INDEF.SG and iou-INDEF.SG NEG-SG
`I don't want water and iou (a kind of porridge).'
b. Adako vúnda sirat ob ióua.
adak-o vúnd-a sira-t ob ióu-a
1SG-want-3SG water-INDEF.SG NEG-SG and iou-INDEF.SG
`I don't want water and iou (a kind of porridge).'

[Creyeditor]

(The cognate objects are fascinating, BTW!)
(How would one say “I am fascinated about the cognate indirect objects”?)

I have not yet decided what conceptual metaphors to use for language and grammar in Kobardon, so I cannot really translate that. But I will try to check what 'I am fascinated' could be asap.
And thanks for your comment/reply of course

I have come up with a word for fascinate btw. It's abredaso `I fascinate s.o., I (positively) surprise s.o.', which is the augmentative of abreso `I reveal s.th., I show s.th.'. So, `I am fascinated' is the passive form of this, which is abredasaba.
I also thought about conceptual metaphors for language, and I came across Chinese terminology for subjects and objects, which basically translate as `host word' and `guest word', which I love. I am totally going to steal this. Therefore, WORDS are PEOPLE is a conceptual metaphor and SYNTAX is SOCIAL INTERACTION is another one. This means that an indirect cognate object will be something like a strange (in the sense of not known or coming from somewhere else, corresponding to indirect) blood-related (being from the same family, i.e. cognate) guest word. So, somewhat like a lost child coming back to its family. I have not yet come up with the actual words, but I am really happy that you made me think about this. I really like the result and I got lots of ideas from it.

[Creyeditor]

Differential object marking
Certain verbs in Kobardon show differential object marking. Definite human noun phrases (incl. pronouns and proper names) cannot be the direct object of some verbs. Instead an intransitive verb is used and the definite human noun phrase is added with the particle ut to as an indirect object.

(37) No definite human direct objects
a. Anafo koteti.
a-naf-o ko-tet-i.
1SG.S-visit-3.O 1SG.POSS-neighbor-SG.INDEF
`I visited a neighbour of mine.'
b. *Anafo kotetibus.
*a-naf-o ko-tet-ibus
1SG.S-visit-3.O 1SG.POSS-neighbor-SG.DEF
`I visited my neighbour.'
c. Anaf ut kotetibus.
a-naf ut ko-tet-ibus
1SG.S-visit to 1SG.POSS-neighbour-SG.DEF
`I visited my neighbour.'

For some verbs, indefinite inanimate nouns phrases are restricted. They cannot occur inside a prepositional phrase introduced by ut to, i.e. as an indirect object of an intransitive verb. Instead, they have to occur as the direct object of a transitive verb. All other nouns potentially undergo the conative alternation, see the next section.

(38) No indefinite inanimate nouns introduced by ut to
a. Adako vúnda.
a-dak-o vúnd-a
1SG-want-3.O water-INDEF.SG
`I want (some) water.'
b. *Adak ut vúnda.
*a-dak ut v\=und-a
1SG-want to water-INDEF.SG
intended: `I am eager for some water.'
c. A-dak ut tet-i.
1SG-want to neighbour-INDEF.SG
`I am eager for a neighbour.'