Pyøza

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Omzinesý
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Pyøza

Post by Omzinesý »

I have a new project, once again.

Pyøza [pyøzä]

It combines Turkish, French, and some vague understanding I have of NatAm polysynthetic languages.

Goals and ideas
- Some noun cases. (I might copy ideas from my last Speedlang thread.)
- Polysynthesis
- Incorporation
- agglutinative but some processes happen at the morphemic border (maybe Celtic style mutations between words too).
- Probably SOV and mostly suffixing
Its phoneme inventories are shown below. This is a consonant inventory I stole from Random Phonemic Inventory thread years ago and have recycled it many times. - This time I added "nasal affricates", which is a old idea of mine. Basically, the nasalization of the consonant is lengthened, making nasal vowels appear only after nasal consonants.
- All consonants but /j ɣ ɾ/ can be geminated and preglottalized. Phonetically, preglottalization is a cluster of the glottal stop and the consonant [ʔt].
- A weak glottal stop also appears as a hiatus filler. Lines of vowels will (hopefully) be frequent.

m n ŋ
mṼ nṼ ŋṼ
p t t͡s k (ʔ)
s x
z ɣ
l ɾ
ʋ j

The vowels can be short or long. The closing (I thank Eldin for terminology) diphthongs are always long. The vowels of the ultimate, stressed, syllable are also always long.

y i u
yø ie uo
ø e o
ä

Phonotactics tries to be simple and conplex simultaneously.
- Onset clusters are not allowed. /ɣ/ and /ɾ/ don't appear word-initially.
- Only /t k n ŋ/ can appear word-finally. The rule could be broken within phrases 🤔.
- Clusters between vowels can be quite complex. I'm trying to find out what they could be. There is also the preglottalization mentioned above.

The distribution of /t͡s/ is limited. Most of its realizations result from a historical sound change t -> t͡s /_i . It can though appear in all positions mentioned above because of analogical leveling and loan words.

Zyøra is not tonal. The primary stress falls on the last syllable of the word/phrase. There might though be some metric rules of secondary stresses of longer words.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 03 Feb 2024 18:30, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Arayaz »

Niceeeeeeee! My favorite languages in the world are in North America. If you want some information about noun incorporation etc., I can share what I know about Klallam (a Coast Salish language) with you, though it's not as polysynthetic as some others.
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Re: Zyøra

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Arayaz wrote: 18 Dec 2023 15:10 Niceeeeeeee! My favorite languages in the world are in North America.
They could be my favorites too. It is just hand to find interesting grammar books about them.
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Arayaz »

Omzinesý wrote: 18 Dec 2023 20:53
Arayaz wrote: 18 Dec 2023 15:10 Niceeeeeeee! My favorite languages in the world are in North America.
They could be my favorites too. It is just hand to find interesting grammar books about them.
What do you mean by "interesting"?
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Re: Zyøra

Post by pizua »

cool now show example sentences and words
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Re: Zyøra

Post by DV82LECM »

Polysynthetic? Very cool. My current project is the same, phonetically based on Siouan, Muskogean, and Athabaskan. I never thought I would be able to do one. I feel like it is like a crown jewel amongst the community, seeming to be so different from the typical attempted project. Whether it is true or not, I was honored to make one. For real, what I made did not come from my mind -- it felt like it was a machine inside of my head.

That said, your vowels are pleasing.
𖥑𖧨𖣫𖦺𖣦𖢋𖤼𖥃𖣔𖣋𖢅𖡹𖡨𖡶𖡦𖡧𖡚𖠨
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Omzinesý »

Very initial ideas about the medial clusters



1st morpheme: malt
2nd morpheme: kal
-> malʔ.kal (two adjacent stops forbidden, the 1st one becomes a glottal stop)

1st morpheme: matr
-> matr-kal +> maʔk.ral (the sonorant /r/ cannot be left between two obstruent, so metathesis -> *matkral, two adjacent stops -> maʔkral)

1st morpheme: malps
-> malps.kal (OK)

The glottal stop seems to be very handy. Maybe I shouldn't have real gemination at all?
Last edited by Omzinesý on 19 Dec 2023 12:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Omzinesý »

Arayaz wrote: 18 Dec 2023 21:50 What do you mean by "interesting"?
It's much easier to read reference grammars than student grammars.
But interesting is of course what I happen to be interested in amt. Atm I wanna know what kinds of "adverbs" can be added to a polysynthetic verb and how they are grouped to slots "naturally".
DV82LECM wrote: 19 Dec 2023 03:27 Polysynthetic? Very cool. My current project is the same, phonetically based on Siouan, Muskogean, and Athabaskan. I never thought I would be able to do one. I feel like it is like a crown jewel amongst the community, seeming to be so different from the typical attempted project. Whether it is true or not, I was honored to make one. For real, what I made did not come from my mind -- it felt like it was a machine inside of my head.

That said, your vowels are pleasing.
Polysynthetic projects are a dream but they often fail. Starting one isn't special but if Zyøra once has a more or less ready grammar sketch and a minimal lexicon, I can be pleased.
It's nice to hear that it is possible.

I wanted to have a contrast between "exotic" polytheistic langs and a very SAE vowels (this is basically an idealization of the German or Hungarian inventory (The diphtongs also appear in different corners of Europe)).
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Omzinesý »

Some ideas for syntax (They may be reversed completely.)

The word order is theoretically AVO, VS.
It is rare to mark both the arguments as NPs though.

There are two genders, Animate and Inanimate.
If the agent is animate and the patient is inanimate, both are marked with Absolutive.
In the other combinations, the agent is marked with Ergative-Oblique case.

Any argument can be topicalized and left-dislocated, i.e. positioned before the agent, separeted be a pause/comma, and appear in Absolutive. Languages apparently differ in how eagerly they topicalize arguments.

Vulgen-a kavtrag-u Seesa.
Vulgen-ERG kiss-AN.AN Seesa.ABS
'Vulgen kissed Seesa.'

Løøcvan-i Vulgen
dance-AN Vulgen.AN
'Vulgen danced.'
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Arayaz »

Omzinesý wrote: 19 Dec 2023 12:29
Arayaz wrote: 18 Dec 2023 21:50 What do you mean by "interesting"?
It's much easier to read reference grammars than student grammars.
But interesting is of course what I happen to be interested in amt. Atm I wanna know what kinds of "adverbs" can be added to a polysynthetic verb and how they are grouped to slots "naturally".
Klallam has a ton of adverb prefixes, mostly relating to time and stuff.
Best of all, though, its grammar, by Timothy Montler, is *designed* to be accessible -- it's practically a textbook.
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote: 18 Dec 2023 20:53 [...]
They could be my favorites too. It is just hand to find interesting grammar books about them.
After googling "most spoken native american languages". I can actually find a reference grammar of nearly every one of them.
I also read Mattissen's "A structural typology of polysynthesis"
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 4.11432546 which gives the parameters which kind of polysynthesis I can choose.
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Omzinesý »

Something on verbal affixes

The last morpheme could be "mood" its values:

Realis moods
- Indicative
- Exclamative (I think the term is used for a form coding sentence focus).
- Volitional (look vs. see)
- maybe something for argument focus
(Mirativity could be linked to one of them.)

Irrealis moods
- Subjunctive (whatever it's used for)
- Imperative
- Optative (a more polite imperative)
- Interrogative
(maybe some subordinate moods)
(Maybe the negation marker also appears in this slot)
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Omzinesý »

I think I should change strategy. I'll just add nice affixes in a kitchen-sinky manner and later think how they fit together.

There are Slavic-style preverbs. Most of them precede the verb stem but follow the incorporated noun root.

I copied them from Ossetic https://www.azargoshnasp.net/languages/ ... setian.htm rather than Slavic. Mainly they code aspect (usually shades of perfective) and direction. They also code deixis (here and there).
Future (non-past) is marked by geminating the first consonant of the stem.

par 'be going'
sa-par 'went in'
sa-p-par 'will go in'

xo-par 'came up here'
xo-p-par 'will come ip here'
xe-par 'went up there'
xe-p-par 'will go up there'
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Omzinesý »

A possible verb pattern

Incorporated noun – Direction, aspect – future – root – diminutive, augmentative – ”auxiliary” – person – mood

Possible border processes
- Gemination
- Gemination or affrication (p -> v, t -> ts, k -> x)
- Glottal ”gemination"
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Porphyrogenitos »

What would be the difference between gemination and glottal gemination?
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Re: Zyøra

Post by DV82LECM »

Porphyrogenitos wrote: 08 Jan 2024 17:32 What would be the difference between gemination and glottal gemination?
Phonemic (true) gemination and phonetic (C+glottal stop assimilation) gemination? I had a language that allowed only the latter, it merged the former.
𖥑𖧨𖣫𖦺𖣦𖢋𖤼𖥃𖣔𖣋𖢅𖡹𖡨𖡶𖡦𖡧𖡚𖠨
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Omzinesý »

Porphyrogenitos wrote: 08 Jan 2024 17:32 What would be the difference between gemination and glottal gemination?
Omzinesý wrote: 18 Dec 2023 13:35 - All consonants but /j ɣ ɾ/ can be geminated and preglottalized. Phonetically, preglottalization is a cluster of the glottal stop and the consonant [ʔt].
Preglottalization works phonotactically like like gemination, so I happened to call it a kind of gemination.

I'm not sure of what their history is.

tt -> ʔt, st -> tt
or
kt -> ʔt, tt = tt
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Re: Zyøra

Post by Omzinesý »

There are two sets of person agreements or conjugations.

One is used for unaccusative intransitives like 'to die' or 'to be'. The other is used for verbs with an agent. The agent conjugation agrees the subject and the object.
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Re: Pyøza

Post by Omzinesý »

Agreement markers of verbs could have a split alignment.

Agreement slot 1: all A and animate S (this is a simple paradigm sg1, sg2, pl1, pl2, 3 = zero)
Agreement slot 2: all O and inanimate S (this slot also has noun class marking)

Archi noun classes are interesting https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... erspective I don't even try to make Zyøra/Pyøza morphophonologically as complex as Archi. I just cannot.


I'm also thinking if Pyøza was a better name for the lang.
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Re: Pyøza

Post by Omzinesý »

Subject markers

-s SG1
-x SG2
-Ø 3
-xen PL1
-xl PL2

Object markers
-in SG1
-up SG2
-t 3 class I (animate)
-l 3 class II
-ru 3 classs III
-n 3 class IV
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