Surprise! Chinese provides better connection between spelling and pronunciation!

A forum for discussing linguistics or just languages in general.
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Oligey
hieroglyphic
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Posts: 37
Joined: 29 Dec 2023 20:24

Surprise! Chinese provides better connection between spelling and pronunciation!

Post by Oligey »

Why it is Shakyamuni instead of Shakamuni?
Why it is Genghis Khan instead of Gengis Khan?
Why it is Beethoven instead of Beidowen?

Are you telling me in EN you cannot spell a word even if you know the pronunciation?
And you have to recite the word?
And words of this type are infinite in number?

But in CN, their spellings are determined by pronunciations with almost 100% certainty.

How is that possible??? 🤷‍♂️
It seems that English has nothing now. Oh dear!
Keenir
mayan
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Joined: 22 May 2012 03:05

Re: Surprise! Chinese provides better connection between spelling and pronunciation!

Post by Keenir »

Oligey wrote: 01 Jan 2024 06:55 Why it is Shakyamuni instead of Shakamuni?
Why it is Genghis Khan instead of Gengis Khan?
Why it is Beethoven instead of Beidowen?
Because those are loans, essentially.

Can you show us what Chingis Khaan would be in Simplified Chinese, in Jin, and in various Mongolian scripts?
But in CN, their spellings are determined by pronunciations with almost 100% certainty.
Then why have I heard so many pronounciations for the founder of the Mongol Empire and thus of the Yuan Dynasty from Chinese speakers?

(wait - CN is Cartoon Network - its even copywritten) :D
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799
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sangi39
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Location: North Yorkshire, UK

Re: Surprise! Chinese provides better connection between spelling and pronunciation!

Post by sangi39 »

Okay, so, to explain other threads being locked, as mentioned here and here, I'd like to make a few points:

1) To Oligey, you were told here by Dormouse559 (another of the Moderators) to take some time to cool down, maybe take some time to get a feel for the users you've interacted with, check out the wider Board, and then come back. This advice is given in more general form over in the House Rules, specifically in reference to House Rule 1. First and foremost: Be Civil. (and in all fairness, it's good advice all round for all users when threads start to get a bit heated)

However, you seem to have made the choice to largely ignore this, instead creating three separate threads, largely doubling down on various individual claims and behaving in a particularly blunt manner, which at least to me starts to break House Rule 2. No trolling/flamebait and House Rule 5. No spamming/flooding.


2) There's nothing preventing you from having an open discussion about the differences between English and Mandarin Chinese (or any other two languages). We're a forum for people whose hobby involves linguistics and, to varying degrees, despite likely not having formal education in the subject, many of us have spent several years a) reading up on the subject and how various languages work, b) tend to enjoy cross-linguistic comparisons (because it can be a big help when creating a conlang to know how other languages do different things), and c) have learned how to research (meaning we don't have to be experts in a given field, but we can go out and find relevant resources to help research and discussion).

The main problem in the last four threads (including this one) is that there has been no discussion. The tone, especially in the most recent three threads (including this one) has been almost wholly "this is my claim, that's as far as I will go", which, fair, could be one way to open up discussion, but responses to later replies have been dismissive and sometimes even hostile (some of that could be due to misinterpreting what other people have read, but whatever, the tone continued)


3) There's been very little effort, on a forum that values open discussion on a number of topics, to allow for open discussion. The first thread openly rejected input from users based on qualification (as Dormouse559 noted) and another refused to offer a translation of a source that was considered to be central to the argument (again, locking some users out of the discussion)





At this point, I will be issuing an official warning to Oligey, but also just again advise that perhaps take a break from posting, see what the rest of the Board is like, and if you want to have a discussion about this topic again, then please just open it up, in a civil manner, to the entire userbase. Some of us are clearly more than happy to talk about it, but the way these threads have progressed is beyond a joke at this point

(I will also be locking this thread)
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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