Celtic/Greenlandic diachronic language [comments encouraged]

[Arayaz]

I've been wanting to reattempt a diachronic language, and I thought I'd give this a try. The idea here is that around the year 1000, a group of speakers of a Celtic language derived from Old Irish migrated north through/around Iceland and ultimately to a convenient island near Greenland, where they stay isolated for a few centuries, with a small group settling in some part of Greenland around 1700 (conveniently, this is about when documentation of the Greenlandic language first began).

This is meant mostly as a thought exercise, and a way for me to get more experience with diachronic conlanging, so the convenient islands and stuff aren't really that relevant ─ naturalisticness, yes, is a goal, but I don't care if it's geographically plausible or anything, just linguistically plausible.

I've potentially made a bad decision, because I don't know much of anything about Old Irish or Greenlandic. However, I thought, why not, they're close together and they're interesting. And now I've written this post, so I'm far too invested to stop now, right?

Updates forthcoming, and above all, advice wanted! I'm still a total newb in this field and these languages.

1000 posts, baby!

[Arayaz]

Sound Changes

A tentative list of sound changes from Old Irish. If anything seems weird/wrong, please tell me!

• First, the Old Irish *L, *N, and *R (as well as their slender counterparts) become geminates when intervocalic, and elsewhere merge with *l, *n, and *r. (*r/rr might be *ɾ/r instead, it probably varies depending on the speaker.)
• Next, the short diphthongs ─ *ău, *ĕu, and *ĭu ─ all monophthongize, to *o, *o, and *u respectively.
• The long mid vowels merge: *e₂ː and *o₂ː become *eː and *o.
• The slender coronal consonants become postalveolar: *tʲ, *dʲ, and *sʲ become *tʃ, dʒ, and ʃ.
• *ṽ and *ṽʲ merge with *v and *vʲ.
• *θ and *θʲ merge with *f and *fʲ.
• *l and *lʲ merge with *w and *j. (ij, ji, uw, wu → iː and uː)
• *ɣ and *h merge with *x, and *ɣʲ and *hʲ become *j and *ʃ respectively.
• The remaining diphthongs merge: *au, *eu, and *iu become *æu~ɛu, and *ai, *oi, and *ui become *ɔi.
• When a short vowel follows a long vowel, it is lost.
• *p and *b, and their slender versions, merge with *f and *v.

With my (probably invalid) estimates about the rate of sound change, and my assumption that an isolated community will experience less (like Iceland), I'd say this could bring us up to 1700, at the moment of first contact with Greenlandic.


I would offer samples, but I haven't found any vocabulary resource that offers IPA for Old Irish. If anyone knows of one, tell me.

[Arayaz]

I found a way to get IPA for these (Wiktionary), so here, have a sample wordlist at c. 1700, with my tentative romanization:

aién [ajeːn] "island" (< Old Irish ailén)
bheurae [vʲɛwre] "language" (< Old Irish bélrae)
cbhand [kwand] "family" (< Old Irish clann)
doini [dɔinʲi] "people" (< Old Irish doíni)
duene [dunʲe] "person" (< Old Irish duine)
dúr [duːr] "ocean/river water" (< Old Irish dobur)
fáif [faːfʲ] "seer, prophet" (< Old Irish fáith)
Goidheug [gɔiðʲɛwg] "potential name of the language" (< Old Irish Goídelc)
uesce [uʃkʲe] "water (for drinking)" (< Old Irish uisce)
úsaeu [uːsɛw] "arrogant" (< Old Irish úasal "noble")

Anyone have suggestions/opinions?

[Porphyrogenitos]

Just as a suggestion, if you're trying to have linguistic convergence with/influence from Greenlandic Inuit, since your scenario involves alternate history and fictional islands anyway, I don't see why you would need to have them wait until 1700 for contact with Greenland. If the island was close enough to Greenland they could have been in contact all along, or at least post-1500 by which point the Inuit had settled southern Greenland.

I also wonder if these people might have lost the written tradition of Irish due to their profound isolation. Not having a standard written form of their language would make it less resistant to influence from Inuit, as well.

[Arayaz]

Just as a suggestion, if you're trying to have linguistic convergence with/influence from Greenlandic Inuit, since your scenario involves alternate history and fictional islands anyway, I don't see why you would need to have them wait until 1700 for contact with Greenland. If the island was close enough to Greenland they could have been in contact all along, or at least post-1500 by which point the Inuit had settled southern Greenland.

Well, we have no documentation of Greenlandic from before 1700, as far as I know.

I also wonder if these people might have lost the written tradition of Irish due to their profound isolation. Not having a standard written form of their language would make it less resistant to influence from Inuit, as well.

They don't have a written language, but I have a romanization.

[Ælfwine]

Interesting. Is there any influence from Old Norse or Danish, considering they were also in the area?

[Arayaz]

Interesting. Is there any influence from Old Norse or Danish, considering they were also in the area?

Probably there would be, considering. However, I'd prefer it to be restricted to a couple loanwords, so as not to complicate things too much. Again, this is more an exercise than a serious project.